Basic question, requiring advanced answer.

mutiny

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Mar 2, 2013
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So, for the past 6 months I have been overclocking my system correctly and stably. I'm proud to say I've gotten pretty good at it. However there are some things I do not understand. Things like Northbridge, HT Link, and how reducing ram speed can actually improve performance. Currently I am studying up on the north bridge and hyper threading. However ram speed boggles me. I purposely buy low timing rating ram, so I don't have to mess with that. However my specific question to ram pertains to what I've seen with ryzen reviews. And various opinions on the Internet about it. How does ram speed affect the actual performance of the cpu? In overclocking there tends to be a theme of more is better. However I'm learning this is not always the case. I am 100% certain that stability is always king. Ryzen also has what is called "infinity fabric" which I have learned is just a trademarked design of it's CCX's. Which I don't fully understand but am working on learning about. The thing that most interests me is that people seem to be baffled how ram speed affects it in unfamiliar ways. But I digress, my main question is this: For "purely gaming purposes" is it better to have a higher max clock speed on the cpu. Or is it better to do what I have done and increased bus frequency. Which as you know simultaneously increases the NB, HT Link, Clock speed, and ram speed. While also adding a small amount of multiplier at the end? My logic tells me that increasing the frequencies of all components. Increases communication between components , thus is "better". Am I wrong, or is a high clock speed without changing any of the other frequencies more beneficial for gaming? Thank you for your time and knowledge. If you can also enlighten me on any of the other subjects mentioned I would greatly appreciate it as well!
 
I can address the Ryzen question. All current Ryzen CPUs (Ryzen 7 and Ryzen 5) comes from the same die... they're effectively the same physical CPU just with cheaper models having some resources disabled. These CPUs have two "Core Complexes" (CCXs), with each CCX having 4 cores and 8MB Lvl3 Cache. The "infinity fabric" is the interconnect between these two core complexes. While it is fast, it is relatively slow and high latency. This means that cores on the same CCX can share more data at a lower latency than cores from the opposite CCX.
When Ryzen was reviewed it was shown to have very capable single threaded performance, but for some reason that strong single threaded performance didn't translate to games as we'd expect it to. One of the theories explaining this was that games need high bandwidth between cores and on Ryzen, CPU cores could be left underutilised because they were regularly waiting on data from a core on the opposite CCX.
One solution to this is through game optimisation, getting game developers to code their games such that threads that are depending on one another are assigned to cores on the same CCX. These cores can communicate with oneanother with higher bandwidth and lower latency, improving performance.
The other solution/mediation is in making the infinity fabric run faster. AMD confirmed that the performance of the infinity fabric is tied to RAM speed, so faster ram = faster infinity fabric, which explains why game performance particularly scales so well on Ryzen CPUs with faster RAM.

In terms of your larger question, I don't claim to be an expert on OCing, but remember that "faster is better" is only true when the component you're tweaking wasn't fast enough to begin with. There's no need to make PCIe slots run faster, for example, because a x16 lane PCIe 3.0 slot is plenty fast enough for a GPU in a gaming machine. My understanding is (and again - I'm no expert so someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that raising the base clock doesn't really net performance gains, which makes me question the merits of doing so. I'd also say that from my (somewhat limited) experience, BCLK overclocking is more difficult to stress test and find stability and results in much less graceful failures than simply tweaking a CPU multiplier and core voltage. I was completely stable in Prime95 but would hard-lock or BSD crash in a graphics benchmark with my BCLK OC. A multiplier OC on the CPU, on the otherhand, would simply result in a notification on Prime95 that a core had failed. To fix that, 99% of the time a have a simple choice between raising the voltage and lowering the frequency... simple!
 

mutiny

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Mar 2, 2013
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I appreciate your answer. I have successfully over clocked the bus clock. The cpu I'm running is an amd fx 8350. I increased the bus from 200 to 220 giving me. 4400mhz at the core, 2840mhz in the HT link, 2400 in the NB, and 1720mhz ram. I then added a 23x muliplier increasing the core clock to 4840 mhz. I created the voltage to 1.525v. Which I know is "high" but I am running a custom waterloop with a 480mm rad. Keeping my temperatures at 47c. The stability was tested with prime95 in blend for several hours. No throttling occured, and no fails. So I know that my current overclock is ok. And to answer your question I have definitively seen major performance gains with this setup. However I am learning that workhorses and gaming rigs have two different requirements. Higher clock speeds and ipc's are what games like. As proven by the 7700k. This is why I am wondering if I just increased my core clock to 5.0 ghz and changing nothing else. If this would give me better performance than my current setup with all the other components beefed up. Also thank you for giving me a layman's perspective on ryzen architecture. PS: my ram is gskill sniper 1866mhz. However the computer will not boot at that speed, and will only run at max 1600 (8.0x) if boosting with xmp. And defaults at 1333mhz.
 

Right - I've never played around with OCing on an FX CPU, and to be honest, I have no idea whether any of the additional components affected by a base clock OC ever actually limit system performance. If they don't (and my understanding is that on all modern Intel platforms they really, really do not), then you'd absolutely be better off with a higher core clock and leaving everything else alone. But yeah - I have no idea about FX CPUs, so I'll leave that for you and others to discuss.