Upgrading 6 Year Old PC

masterelectrician2112,

Ordinarily, I'm all for getting the old faithfuls into fighting shape, but there is an oversupply of used workstations that are four generations newer with performance that the i7-870 system could never achieve- and for very reasonable cost.

Consider selling the 870 system and adding the sales value to the $600 upgrade budget. Call that amount $700.

How about:

HP Z420 WORKSTATION QUAD CORE XEON E5-1620 3.60GHz/16GB/250Gb/DVDRW/Win 7 Pro ZE > $329

That system has the Xeon E5-1620 which is 4-core @ 3.6 /3.8GHz, 16GB of RAM, SATAIII 6GB/s disk (instead of SATAII 3GB/s) and USB 3.0 instead of 2.0. For comparison, the i7-870 has an average Passmark CPU rating of 5407 and single-thread performance- very important in any 3D use- of 1299. For the E5-1620 the numbers are 9093 and 1934.

To the above system, add:

EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 GAMING, ACX 2.0 (Single Fan), 03G-P4-6160-KR, 3GB GDDR5, DX12 OSD Support (PXOC), Only 6.8 Inches > $170 (currently $150)

WD Blue 250GB Internal SSD Solid State Drive - SATA 6Gb/s 2.5 Inch - WDS250G1B0A > $90

WD Blue 1TB Desktop Hard Disk Drive - 7200 RPM SATA 6Gb/s 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch - WD10EZEX > $55

Update the BIOS to latest $0 at hp.com
________________________________________

System: $329 + $29 shipping = $358
GPU:____________________ $170
SSD:_____________________ $90
HD: ______________________ $55
________________________________________

_____________ TOTAL : About: $673

The best feature of the above system is that with the Firepro v3900 graphics card and 250GB included, it would be possible to use it as is and then just plug in the new parts as they arrive. That is much easier than changing motherboards and CPU's, etc.That will have Windows 7 Prof'l included which I would keep.

That system should run about any 2D or 3D CAD program really quite well, and of course, business applications. For example, Sketchup could make a quick dimensioned 3D model of the stage and that could be shared by the set designer, for blocking, choreography, etc.

We have a very similar system (same processor and arrived but with Firepro v4900 and 500GB disk) in the office which has had perfect reliability since 2013- and is one of the quietest computers we've had. HP support is excellent too- one stop for comprehensive manuals, upgrading the BIOS and chipset drivers, etc- which I would do first thing.

I like the idea of "Grandma2 3D". I can see the summer blockbuster movie of the comic book now: [Deep announcer's voice-over]: "Grandma 2: This time it's 3D." "Just when you thought Gothburg City was nothing but dark corners for criminals to hide in, Grandma is there with her Sword of Illumination, spreading Lumens and justice to all - and there's cookies afterwards."

Cheers,

BambiBoom

HP z620_2 (2017) > Xeon E5-1680 v2 (8-core@ 4.1GHz) / 64GB DDR3-1866 ECC Reg / Quadro P2000/ HP Z Turbo Drive M.2 256GB + Intel 730 480GB + Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB / ASUS Essence STX PCIe sound card /825W PSU / Windows 7 Prof. 64-bit > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440)

[Passmark Rating = 6166 / CPU rating = 16934 / 2D = 820 / 3D= 8849 / Mem = 2991 / Disk = 13794] 4.24.17 Single Thread Mark = 2252

I'd continue on with the i7 cpu you have for another year. The best upgrade you can make to improve your gaming performance will be getting a gtx 1060 6gb for $220. To help make your pc "feel" a lot faster, you need an ssd. I'd go for a 500gb model Samsung 850 Evo.

Your much better off upgrading your entire system before dedicating $500 to a GPU.

Agreed, the Ryzen 5 I suggested would be a much better upgrade route, or an Intel i5-7600K.

g-unit1111,

Not a bad idea except that the Ryzen 5 system is +41% over the "$600 max" budget and doesn't apparently upgrade the drives. An old SATAII meach'l HD is not going to contribute much to the overall system. If the Ryzen 5 system would include the SSD and HD (+$145) and a copy of Windows 7 Pro (+$150) suggested for the z420, then the upgrade/ system cost would be about $1,130. or 188% of the budget. Remember that if the entire system is replaced, the original system can recover value as a complete system and is less effort than selling a few used 1st generation parts.

The Ryzen 5 upgrade would yield a system of the same number of cores at about the same clock speed, the same amount of RAM at a higher speed, the same model GPU but with more memory, but a terrible disk speed as compared to the z520.Also, the z420 Xeon E5 has 40PCIe lanes to the Ryzen 5's 20 and has 8 RAM slots using quad channel memory instead of 4 slots of dual channel , and a significantly wider memory bandwidth. It's more expandable as it can run two x16GPU's plus a x4 M.2, and still have two x1 slots with none shared. Also, the $843 upgrade suggesting using the 6-year old SATAII HD instead of an SATAIII SSD and SATAIII HD?

In suggesting an upgrade, that to equal the specification of the used workstation, costs $530 more than the maximum budget- nearly double, or in suggesting an upgrade +41% over the budget to achieve roughly similar in performance except in hobbling along on an elderly HD, in what way have you answered the question?

Thinking in terms of cost /performance don't forget the net cost aspect of the equation.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

But also don't forget the age of the suggested system. A 5 year old system would require an upgrade in about a year to keep up with even the minimum requirements of rendering programs. I'd personally rather pay more now, then buy the bare minimum and have to twice or three times as much to upgrade later. Which is better - buying more now and not having to worry, or buying less now, and then turning around and having to immediately upgrade because the age of the system can't handle the newer software?

g-unit1111,

"I am trying to improve it with a budget of $600 max"

When there is a maximum cost, the resolution is cost /performance, distributed evenly across all the subsystems. If the calculation density per core is the same, the RAM capacity is the same, but with a much larger memory bandwidith, the same GPU, and twice as many PCIe lanes, giving it the potential to use a 2nd GPU at full x16, plus x4 M.2 and an x8 PCI RAID controller. In this way the z420 has a greater upgrade potential than the the Ryzen system. In GPU rendering. If the rendering were to change to CPU rendering, the z420 can acquire an 8-core CPU just as the AM4 system.

Compare the two CPU in question: The Xeon E5-1620 has a Passmark average CPU Mark of 9093 (2273 per core) and Single Thread Mark of 1934. For the Ryzen 5 1600X those figures are: 13176 (2196 per core) and 1925. Conclusiion: The E5 is the more efficient processor.

The Ryzen upgrade system would need upgrading immediately if it were running on a single 6-year old SATAII HD. The cost of new components means the drive specification if fatally compromised. And computers work under the "weakest link" principle. One component or subsystem bottleneck and it's wasting capabilities.

But, the fundamental aspect is the budget compliance. If our friend masterelectrician2112 has $1,300 to spend, that's a completely different solution as all the components could be new have a reasonable performance level. But, it would cost that for the Ryzen 5 system to equal the performance of the $673 uprated z420 and in the long run still be less versatile.

Ryzen is tempting and recently I considered replacing a z420 having a Xeon E5-1660 v2 with a Ryzen 7 1800X, but I don't feel Ryzen is a refined, professional platform and bought an E5-1680 v2 8-core and that system cost about $600 less the Ryzen with only the motherboard being used. By the way, the E5-1680 v2 8-core has a Passmark single thread mark of 2252 where the average Ryzen 7 1800X -the highest specification- is running at 1952. I don't understand the Ryzen specification such that 8-cores hav similar single-thread performance over the 7, 5, and 3 series. Look at the i7-7700K- an average single thread of 2594, the Xeon E5-1650 v4 6-core at 2177, and the Xeon E5-1680 v4 8-core at 2200- a logical progression.

AMD is releasing it's workstation/ server processors in the Autumn and I look forward to those- they will have a 32- core / 64-thread CPU. That level of innovation could intrude into the Intel server dominance and they are so worried, Xeons Xeon E5's and E7's will be renamed the "Gold" and "Platinum" series. Intel doesn't realize how much confidence will be lost. Cute marketing names that refer to irrelevant aspects will appear capricious and desperate to engineers.

Good discussion!

Cheers,

BambiBoom

The thing I would be interested in is the build quality of these systems. How sure are you that a 5 year old bundled PSU would be able to power a modern graphics card like the 1060 or 1070 under a full load?

My confidence is based on experience with Dell Precisions and HP z-series over time. At the moment we have have 4- Dell Precisions from 2007 (390) to 2012 (T5500) and four HP z-series from 2013 (z420_1) to (last week: z620_2). The Precision T5400 from 2008 has been running dual Xeon x5460 4-cores and had many periods running coninuously a week or more including rendering, the 2013 HP z620 2X 8-core likewise and the 2011 Precision T5500 2X 6-core ran flight dymanics problem for two weeks continuously. And since 1993, we have never had a PSU failure. The longest period of ownerweship was a Dell Precision T5400 from 2009 to present.

Workstations are built lilke servers- except much quieter. Have a look at the inside of HP z820's. I think the Precision T5400 motherboard was used in it's exact form in a server- and reliability, conservative cooling, locked multipliers, and general build quality are the reason I don't hesitate to recommend them - they're built to run an run. Workstations also usually have quite large PSU's -the z420 is 600W and the z620 is 800W- and Quadro P2000 5GB is only 75W!

By the way, if you ever find yourself needing a workstation card that can probably make it's way through game- the P2000 (5GB, 160-bit, $430) is making a Passmark 3D score of 8950 in HP z420_2- and that is faster than the average GTX 1060.

Have you had power supply failures? I would be interested to know the manufacturers of same and your favorite makers. I ask as I'm thinking of putting the E5-1680 v2 on an ASUS P9X79 WS board so I can have the full 4.3GHz rate (It's 4.1 at the moment) The z620 is also an X79 board but the overclocking parameters are limited as a protective measure. That system would need a PSU and while predisposed to Seasonic and Corsair, I've never bought a PSU.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

I've used so many different PSUs from many different manufacturers. The worst experience I've had is with the Ultra brand (ugh) and the second worst I've had experience with is the Corsair CX. Whereas I've used Silverstone, EVGA, and Seasonic without a single one of them failing or going bad.