Bad performance - clueless gamer

xiiicaesar

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Aug 2, 2014
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Hello everyone,

I have a question on my PC's performance. I'm someone who loves PC strategy and simulation games. However, most of the games I enjoy run so bad, that often times the bad performance sucks the enjoyment out of the gaming experience. I've recently bought a new video card to give my PC a well needed boost, but I feel I didn't get the desired effect. Some of the games I enjoy most are the Creative Assembly games, Paradox games, Relic games and the Sport Interactive games.

Warhammer Total War runs bad especially. With settings set to "high" I still get a very lackluster experience. Even Rome 2 and Attila Total War run bad on high settings.

This is my setup:
- ASRock B85M-GL
- Intel Core i5 4670 4x 3.40GHz
- GTX 1060
- 8GB (4x2) Corsair Vengeance LP Black DDR3-1600

So, here is my question. Is the bad performance in the Total War games normal for the setup that I have? Or is there an underlying problem that causes my PC to run these games so bad?

Thank you for your time/advice.
 
Solution
As seen from Speccy and CoreTemp, your CPU temperature is way high at idle. And during gaming, CPU reaches it's max temp limit of 100°C. To prevent damage due to the heat, the CPU thermal throttles down to 2,3 Ghz or so. That's why you have such a bad performance in games.

Checked my temps and my Haswell build i5-4590 with Intel's stock CPU cooler idles at 37°C. Skylake build i5-6600K with Arctic Freezer i32 in push-pull configuration idles at 28°C. Most that i've seen out of my i5-6600K is 55°C and that during benchmarking while CPU was overclocked from 3,5 Ghz to 4,1 Ghz.

What's your CPU cooler? Intel's stock CPU cooler? Also, what PC case you have and how many fans + fans orientation? Furthermore, when was the last time you cleared...

Aeacus

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Your build is good and i don't think it's due to the hardware. My Haswell build (full specs in my sig) has a bit lower performance than your build (CPU: i5-4670 vs i5-4590, GPU: GTX 1060 vs GTX 760), but i can play my games on it with high/ultra settings @ 1080p with solid 60+ FPS with ease.

My guess is that you have some applications running that hog your system resources. To know which applications hog your resources, use Process Explorer,
link: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/processexplorer.aspx

Just to see how much difference the running background applications makes on system performance, i did some benches about a month ago. Here's two benches of my Skylake build (full specs in my sig),
background CPU usage 10%: http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/3416525
background CPU usage 0%: http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/3416648

Without some background applications running (e.g MSI Gaming App, NZXT CAM, Corsair CUE, Skype, Firefox), the gain is small. Only 4% in gaming and desktop and 2% in workstation. If my CPU would've been used up more (e.g 32%, instead of 10%) the gain in performance would've been bigger.

You can download the Userbencmark tool and let it test your system as well. It's free and a good source to determinate which of your components are under performing,
link: http://www.userbenchmark.com/Software
 

xiiicaesar

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Aug 2, 2014
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Hey Aeacus, thank you for your suggestion. I tried using userbenchmark and got these results: http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/3619933

Is this acceptable? I'm not really sure which processes I could turn off, most seem to be necessary?

sYSf6d.jpg

 

Aeacus

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Your applications seem fine to me. There's no system resource hoggers that i can see.

In your 2nd run, your system had 0,5GB less free RAM and your CPU did run 300 Mhz slower than in your 1st run.

Your CPU is way under performing. While the base clock is 3.4 Ghz, during benching, your CPU turbo was at 2,6 Ghz (1st run) and at 2,3 Ghz (2nd run). Normal turbo speed for i5-4670 is 3,6 Ghz.

What are your CPU temps? Idle and during gaming/benching? Also, can you confirm the CPU speed for me? Also at idle and during gaming/benching.
For those two, you can use the same programs i'm using: CoreTemp and Speccy.
Speccy download: https://www.piriform.com/speccy/download
CoreTemp download: http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/

In CoreTemp, look for the Frequency value and in Speccy, open CPU tab, expand "Cores" and look for Core Speed and Multiplier.
(For system monitoring, i prefer to use more than 1 program, so i can validate the readings between different programs.)

Your PC uptime (15 days) may also be part of the reason. When was the last time you did a reboot? Also, shut down your PC for about 30mins and then power it on again. Look if there's a difference.
 

xiiicaesar

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Aug 2, 2014
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Hey Aeacus,

So I did as you asked. What do you think? I did notice that before gaming, the speed sometimes jumped to about 1800 and sometimes 3600 but then jumped right back.

Before gaming:

mQjBPq.jpg


duzLNI.jpg


During gaming:

YkXcqi.jpg


oQmDwi.jpg



About PC uptime, this is weird because I turn it off every day.
 

Aeacus

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As seen from Speccy and CoreTemp, your CPU temperature is way high at idle. And during gaming, CPU reaches it's max temp limit of 100°C. To prevent damage due to the heat, the CPU thermal throttles down to 2,3 Ghz or so. That's why you have such a bad performance in games.

Checked my temps and my Haswell build i5-4590 with Intel's stock CPU cooler idles at 37°C. Skylake build i5-6600K with Arctic Freezer i32 in push-pull configuration idles at 28°C. Most that i've seen out of my i5-6600K is 55°C and that during benchmarking while CPU was overclocked from 3,5 Ghz to 4,1 Ghz.

What's your CPU cooler? Intel's stock CPU cooler? Also, what PC case you have and how many fans + fans orientation? Furthermore, when was the last time you cleared dust from inside your case, especially around CPU?

Note: Running your CPU that hot will burn out your CPU much sooner than you expect it. So, until the heat issue hasn't been resolved, i don't suggest you to do any CPU heavy tasks (e.g gaming, benching, video edit/render etc). Regular web browsing is fine since it won't stress the CPU as much.

As far as uptime goes and when using Win 10, by default, the Fast Startup is enabled. It's a feature which enables your system to boot up faster once you have "shut down" the PC. In reality, your PC won't power off, but instead remains in hibernation mode which is a mix of regular hibernation and cold shutdown.
Here's further reading about it with guide to enable/disable this feature,
link: https://www.howtogeek.com/243901/the-pros-and-cons-of-windows-10s-fast-startup-mode/

About CPU frequency. About 800 Mhz is normal for Intel CPUs during idle. My i5-6600K and i5-4590 both also stay around 800 Mhz during idle. CPU itself boosts the frequency once the load increases.

Under the spoiler are 2 pics of my i5-6600K, 1st pic is CPU at idle and 2nd pic is CPU during CPU benching.
CPU idles at about 26°C, CPU frequency at about 800 Mhz.
(click on image for full size)

CPU averages at about 48°C, CPU frequency at about 3,9 Ghz with full Intel's Turbo Boost in use.
(click on image for full size)
 
Solution

xiiicaesar

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Aug 2, 2014
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Aeacus, thank you so much for helping me get to the bottom of this.

So, wow, that is pretty disquieting. My CPU cooler is in fact the Intel one that came with it. The case is a tight fit, with a fan on the side and one on top.
I do clean my PC regularly, about once a month with a brush and spray. Could it also be the thermal paste? What would you advise me to do? Do you need pictures of the case and the desktop interior?
 

Aeacus

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Pics about your case and it's internals would help.

Even though Intel's stock CPU cooler is pretty weak, with better PC case, you can have better cooling as well.
Two examples:
1. My old AMD build (full specs in my sig) did came with Codegen ATX-308-CA-USB/Audio (silver/black) case when i bought it as prebuilt office PC. CPU has AMD stock CPU cooler on it and my Codegen case had only 1x 80mm rear exhaust fan. Since i managed to overheat my CPU several times (highest temp that i saw was 102°C before PC shut itself down), i had enough of that crappy case and i bought Chieftec DF-02B-U3 case that has: 1x 120mm front intake, 1x 120mm bottom intake, 2x 120mm side intake and 1x 120mm rear exhaust. After that, my CPU temps dropped like 20°C all around. Now, my AMD CPU idles around 40°C while under load, it can hit up to 80°C.
In total, i have 5x 120mm case fans.

2. As i already stated, my Haswell build with i5-4590 also has Intel's stock CPU cooler on it. But since the PC case is Gigabyte GZ-G2 Plus with: 2x 120mm front intake, 2x 120mm side intake, 1x 120mm top exhaust and 1x 120mm rear exhaust fans, my CPU idles at around 37°C.
In total, i have 6x 120mm case fans.

Bonus: My Skylake build sits in Corsair 760T full-tower ATX case that has: 2x 140mm front intake, 1x 120mm bottom intake, 3x 140mm top exhaust and 1x 140mm rear exhaust fans.
In total, i have 7x case fans, 6x 140mm and 1x 120mm.

If you were to buy yourself a new case with far better airflow, your CPU temps will drop considerably and you can avoid CPU overheating without replacing CPU cooler. Since choosing a case is personal choice, it's hard for me to suggest which case to go for. E.g plain one, fancy one, with/without 5.25" external bays etc.

I'm planning to switch out my AMD and Haswell PC cases, for better airflow, side window and the need for 5.25" external bays.
For AMD build, i'm thinking to get Thermaltake Versa H35 which has ample air cooling with up to 8 case fans: 2x 120/140mm front intake, 2x 120mm bottom intake, 3x 120/140mm top exhaust, 1x 120mm rear exhaust,
specs: http://www.thermaltake.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00002474

And for Haswell build, i'm thinking to get Corsair 450D with Demciflex filter kit for dust management. (It's far easier to clean dust filters than cleaning dust from inside the case. My Skylake build's 760T already has Demciflex filter kit.) 450D also has optimal air flow with 7 to 8 fans: 2x 120/140mm front intake, 2x 120mm bottom intake, 3x 120mm or 2x 140mm top exhaust, 1x 120mm rear exhaust.
specs: http://www.corsair.com/en-eu/obsidian-series-450d-mid-tower-pc-case
filter kit: http://www.demcifilter.com/p0602/Corsair-Obsidian-450D-Dust-Filter-Kit.aspx

If you can't make up your mind about PC cases or if you like the two above cases, for better airflow, you can go for the same PC cases that i'm planning to go with,
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/9JvRsY,36M323/
 

Aeacus

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While Corsair 450D is solid case to go for, the Hyper 212 Evo CPU cooler has weak performance. Though, it still is better than Intel's stock CPU cooler.
I dislike Hyper 212 Evo because it uses sleeve bearing fan. And from here you can read why i don't like sleeve bearing fans,
link: http://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/779-computer-case-fan-bearing-differences

Though, if you would've said that you also plan to get new CPU cooler, i would've suggested something better for you.
E.g any medium sized CPU cooler from this list will do,
link: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-cpu-coolers,4181.html

The list above also has my i5-6600K CPU cooler, an Arctic Freezer i32, as being the 2nd best mid-sized CPU air cooler. Arctic Freezer i32 comes with semi-passive fan that has fluid dynamic bearing. If you did read about the fan bearings then you can guess why i bought Arctic Freezer i32 for my Skylake build.

With new case and CPU cooler, your CPU will be much better cooled and you can resume your gaming.

Here's also Airflow 101 article for you to read,
link: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/faq/id-1858957/airflow-101-setting-fans-keeping-computer-cool.html