2nd PC, old/low tier - looking for ideas, what to do

varis

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Back to the old storyline, a bit over 6 years ago I built a nice quiet mid-range gaming PC. Recently it developed problems though and refuses to boot. Troubleshooting is still ongoing but on Asus forums they suggested it is maybe the CPU.

PC spec is at http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/300498-31-building-range-gaming-quiet-intel

I'm pondering what to do with that:

1) Build it up to be a 2nd desktop PC
2) Salvage and sell the parts
3) Just take it to garbage

1) Regarding this option, not sure if there are enough use cases. So I'm kind of looking for ideas concerning this. I could offload some tasks to the second computer. It turns out most of my time is spent on web forums and browsing for information online, though I usually build systems with gaming primarily in mind. But I have a pretty recent laptop which is well suited for casual browsing. Also there's 2-3 monitors available so I can keep Teamspeak and web browsers open on a 2nd monitor while the game is running already on the main 'puter. Offloading some applications to another computer of course helps with multitasking but a more compact approach would just be to get a Ryzen CPU and utilize its 12 cores.

This is a single person household, though there is potential to scale to 2 people or even beyond. This I think could bring the most multitasking benefits since multiple seats could be used and the applications needed would be more variable as well.

Regarding applications, first off this computer would need to run Linux (or BSD unix or something more exotic) because the cost of a Windows license is prohibitive in this scenario. That puts in some limitations regarding application support - multiboxing Eve Online is out as well as regular video editing (there is a performance issue too; Linux would be well suited to rendering and creating CGI animation though I have no interest in making animation, raytracing could be an occasional use case). It could be used perhaps to run some games, but that tends to concentrate on the main 'puter and also having 3 web browsing machines sounds a bit superfluous. Maybe I could use the box just to play around and experiment with Linux or possibly even to develop and test some software and things.

I have extensive skillsets in networking/embedded systems/software engineering so it could be utilized in some projects or for some server applications but at the moment there is not so much interest to alone justify retaining a 2nd contemporary level desktop. Do you have any ideas for exciting technical projects to undertake on this box? One possibility could be to use it as the workstation to control a 3D printer as that is maybe better to reside in a separate room.

For hardware, the Asus page https://www.asus.com/fi/Motherboards/P7H55/ says:

This motherboard supports the latest Intel® Lynnfield and Clarkdale processors in LGA1156 package, which has memory and PCI Express controller integrated to support 2-channel (4 DIMMs) DDR3 memory and 16 PCI Express 2.0 lanes providing higher graphics performance.

Would it actually run with a modern CPU? Or maybe I'm looking to buy a CPU+MB+RAM combination, do you have suggestions? Dirt cheap is preferable but something that offers a bit of performance to balance would be attractive. 4-8 GB of RAM is what I think I'd be looking for - I take DDR3 is affordable nowadays and it's not exactly necessary to be of very high performance.

EDIT: Okay, reality check. They don't seem to sell LGA1156 processors in the store any more - potentially I could look for a 2nd hand i5 though. For this box it doesn't have to be Intel, if I buy a new MB an AMD one could be better suited due to the usually lower cost.

2) Some parts are still viable and there is also a 2nd hand PC component market in Finland. I doubt it's worth the hassle to sell the parts except for the most marketable ones which may have a minor financial value still. Mostly I'm wondering what to do with the case, it's a quite nice Antec one but there are already better ones on the market and I ordered a nice one for my new PC build.

Select parts such as the PSU and HDD can be moved to the new PC.

3) I may have to acknowledge that most of it is practically junk and needs to be taken to the local recycling center. This might be free of charge, last time I visited they were still willing to receive PC waste. There's also some older boxes now considered retro which I don't need and have to get rid of soon... a few will stay for my future retro computing interests.
 

spdragoo

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It's not going to run with a "modern" CPU. The best you're going to be able to do is the i7-880 (same core frequency as your i3, but you'd go from a 2C/4T CPU to a 4C/8T CPU), or the i7-875K (slight drop in frequency, but the extra physical cores & threads will more than compensate) if you want to try overclocking (https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P7H55/HelpDesk_CPU/). If you have trouble finding a core i7, then the core i5-750 or 760 they list would be pretty good options as well.

Getting that CPU won't make your system a top-line one, but it brings you up from a 6th-tier CPU to a 3rd-tier CPU (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-hierarchy,4312.html) with the core i7s, or 4th-tier with a core i5. Note that this would put you right around the performance level of a Skylake/Kaby Lake core i3 or the new Hyperthreaded Pentiums, more than enough to be a solid "2nd" desktop PC for you. And yes, you'll have to look for 2nd-hand chips, or possibly through online sellers. PCPartPicker shows an i5-750 available for about £200 through Amazon (https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/products/cpu/#s=12,13&k=15&sort=a7&page=1) -- I wouldn't go for the i5-680, its only benefit over your current CPU is the higher clock speed (it's still a 2C/4T chip, vs. the i5-750 which is a 4C/4T chip).

Everything else is probably OK as a secondary desktop PC. The only other thing I would consider is, if you're running 64-bit Windows, see about increasing your RAM. I'd recommend at least 8GB, but you might also consider just maxing it out (16GB max for that board, https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P7H55/specifications/).
 

varis

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Going for 1). Bigtime.

Figured just toying around with Linux and testing things is a big use case. I'll come up with something. Also I'm citing synergy benefits and reduced opportunity costs from a second platform with the same architecture. You heard it right - I found a nice rehabilitated gaming mobo with z170 chipset, 12 month warranty and all, at an outlet and fell for it.

The whole ordeal will cost below that £200 I think. Will try and shoot for dirt cheap since in about 2 years (?) I can drop that beefy 7600K and other things on it and start OCing the h/w into orbit, if that makes sense.

Spec will now be:

Antec Sonata III (put the noisy Tricool fans back?)
(Noctua NF-S12B FLX 120mm??)
Enermax Pro87+ 500W
MSI Z170-A Kraut Gaming
<CPU>

<RAM of some kind - maybe at first 8GB Corsair Vengeance LED DDR4 3000 MHz 15-17-17-35 1.35V>
Gigabyte Windforce Radeon 6850
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus (PASSIVE if possible)
OCZ Vertex 2 - 60GB 2.5" SSD SATA II
Old 1 TB disk or so
Some MX-4 Premium Thermal Compound
<Some kind of Linux, Debian?>

Not so many new purchases (bolded). Corsair RAM would be stolen from my main box until it starts running out.

But how about the CPU - obviously Pentium like G4400 would work on this mobo and would be quite cheap as new. Skylake for easy upgrading of the bios (unless they did it at factory... doubt it)? Can Pentium chips be overclocked? The cheapest i3 seems to be about twice as expensive in my regular stores. Or would it still make sense to hunt for the used chips - obviously I can now check out much newer and more modern stuff. But the spec doesn't need to be beefy - workloads will be quite generic, maybe some gaming just for the LOLs but nothing really serious I think.

This time multiple cores would probably be a big benefit, but that doesn't really go hand in hand with low costs if you've decided to be faithful to Intel, sadly enough.
 
"...Troubleshooting is still ongoing but on Asus forums they suggested it is maybe the CPU."

This is a surprise. Normally once you get down to just the MB, CPU, CPU fan and PSU there is no way to tell which failed. You have to swap parts, and it's always the MB or PSU, its never the CPU.

Have you followed all the instruction in the "no boot, no post" sticky? A bad memory dimm or a bad HDD can cause a totally dead no boot system.
 

spdragoo

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I don't believe the Skylake or Kaby Lake Pentiums are unlocked (unlike the Haswell G3258), but I think that's because they released an unlocked Core i3 (i3-7350K). However, they all have HyperThreading, making them 2C/4T CPUs (& essentially making almost every Core i3 pretty much useless).
 

varis

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There is no POST screen from this old system so probably not HDDs at least. Will have to check the guide I think.



Are you totally sure about hyperthreading? All info I've seen seems to say that indeed they are locked but also that they have just 2 thread capability. Which is a real bummer but then again the price is about a half from i3.

Think you're confusing them with something else, eg. check here: https://ark.intel.com/products/88179/Intel-Pentium-Processor-G4400-3M-Cache-3_30-GHz
 


Some Pentiums have hyperthreading, some do not. This pentium for example does have HT: https://ark.intel.com/products/97460/Intel-Pentium-Processor-G4620-3M-Cache-3_70-GHz

I find this chart useful in picking/comparing processors to get a rough idea of performance: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-hierarchy,4312.html
 

varis

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Started troubleshooting this again. The problem is all along that I get "no memory" error - one long beep and two short beeps, repeated https://www.asus.com/support/faq/1029959. Also the screen stays blank.

What I did so far:
-remove GPU
-cleaned it, then cleaned it again using pressurized air too
-try each RAM individually
-try without RAM
-disconnect all drives, the sound card and the LAN card
-reset the RTC RAM (CMOS)
-visually checked MB power connectors to look properly seated

This is my old "known good" system that was used for gaming and basically daily everything, pretty much, until it broke.

What I could still do:
-try the Asus Mem OK! button
-try with the new PSU
-or just reconnect all power cords and cables

Will try if I get something in the morning, already past midnight now.

But honestly I'm not sure if all that helps really. It may be just bad components, and not sure if it makes sense to go much further, the market value of those old components (just MB and CPU would be discarded - everything else is reused!) must be somewhere around $10 - $20, and I already bought parts for 2 new builds that are waiting to be put together :p

Guess the main motivation is just knowledge, perhaps I could put these components into an old case, there certainly is some computing power in them, at least for Linux server applications or such :lol: And getting in the mood of some rigorous POST testing is a good idea in view of those 2 pressed upcoming builds! ;)
 

varis

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I made progress! After doing all the first list, there was one more thing to add, trying to boot with the RAM inserted to each slot in turn. Now I tried with the RAM in slot A1 (instead of A2 closest to the CPU) and I get a long beep, 3 short beeps. Also the red "DRAM LED" lights up briefly on the MB.

Also when I removed all components possible (leaving just the CPU) I get the same beeps (not the single long beep nor the silence the guide talks of). I wonder if it means something in the case of this MB (Asus P7H55)?
 

varis

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The beeps mean no video on Asus so I inserted the GPU. One single beep indicating succesful POST.

I reconnected the monitor and I get a pretty functional start complaining of no keyboard.

Holy shaite, I could have saved $1200 or more if I had read the guide earlier!

So - my h/w is not bogus. What I think it was, in order of likelyhood:

-CTC RAM (CMOS). I wouldn't be the first, I guess that's why it's in the guide. Not sure what could have been wrong here and why.
-Some of the expansion cards being bad and messing up the system
-Still some RAM problem (like one stick somehow losing contact to the board?)

Could have just been some momentary short caused by dust that messed up the puter as well.

The big question now, WTH do I do with the 3rd system core (cpu + mb, my relatives would accept the ram).
 


Oustanding. Good job debugging.

Re the spare parts, if you are like me you cannot resist converting it into another system. I have systems I uses as medai servers and others as heaters in the winter... they do BOINC "solve cancer" computation. I turn them off in the late spring.
 

varis

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My great system building project is finally off to a great start with the first ever breadboarding performed on this system! (Windows licensing is causing some grey hair and will be seen if it works, though obviously MS is just trying to scare people while being lenient in practice... also the old router was acting up but turned out to be the wrong cable connected in the end :sarcastic:) One nice breadboarding guide is at https://forums.whatthetech.com/index.php?showtopic=120814 and I loosely followed that, everything went just perfectly smooth.

It's quite a convenience that Intel includes video in their CPUs, even the lowly Pentium. The GPU for now will be used on the primary system. I also noticed that MSI recommends using the DIMM slots 2 + 4 first, quite interesting. Maybe I could also have a bad memory slot on the old MB, not sure if I actually ended up switching the RAM around.