CPU Cooling for i7-7700k. Baseline recommendation for a first time builder/inexperienced PC gamer?

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Kobe Eveleigh

Kobe Eveleigh

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Hello I'm just about to build my gaming PC, am going to order i7-7700k this week or next. I have everything else.

I'm currently thinking about whether or not I should add in a CPU Cooler to the build. I'm a first time custom PC builder, up till now all I've used are off the shelf office computers and consoles. I've done a fair bit of reading about PC components but this kind of thing seems like having actual direct experience with your own custom built PCs would be what matters so I would like to ask for a recommendation.


I'm considering either the CoolerMaster 212 Hyper EVO or CoolerMaster 212 Hyper LED whichever is cheaper between them. But I'm also wondering if I should consider a more expensive option. However I do want to stay away from liquid cooling at least for my first custom PC. Also I live in Canada so that might limit some of the options available. TBH I'm not sure if I'd be fine without a CPU cooler or if I should be buying one for CAD$100 or higher.

I don't plan to overclock at least not from the outset. I will consider doing a CPU overclock once there's a new CPU on the market that's a viable upgrade for i7-7700k users. I chose the best quad core available right now as I'll be pretty much just gaming on this PC. I have some interest in 3D modeling(Fallout/Skyrim modding), Photoshop(Fallout/Skyrim modding), maybe video editing but as an inexperienced user I'm sure 7700k will do well enough for me with these.


Build: i7-7700k, MSI Armor 1080 OC, G.Skill Ripjaws V 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz 16CAS, Samsung EVO 850 500GB, Seagate Barracuda 2TB, EVGA G2 750W PSU, Corsair 200R Mid ATX

Games: Fallout 4 w/ mods, Skyrim SE w/ mods, Middle Earth: Shadow of War, Assassin's Creed Reboot, The Witcher 3 Wild Hunt, GTA V, R6 Siege, Dark Souls 3, Cyberpunk 2077(whenever it releases)

Resolution: 4K Ultra wherever feasible, otherwise 1440p ultra or 4K reduced settings. Need to buy the monitor later so I'm going to use a basic 1080p/60hz model for now.
 
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Karadjgne
With Intel, yes, there's realistically no need to OC anything newer than sandy/Ivy Bridge, as the newer Intel IPC is basically what modern games are designed around. Especially at your lower resolutions like 1080p/60Hz. It's only when you start thinking about 4k or 1440p/144Hz that you really need the power of the top line Intel to keep up with the detail settings those gpus are dishing out.
Ryzen cpus are a little different. The infinity fabric version of HT can make very good use of higher speed ram, added to some OC bumping the memory controller speeds, its entirely possible to see an easy 20% performance boost, and depending on the game and gpu capability, that could be as much as 50-60fps. Kinda makes up for its Haswell comparison...
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danielthegreate

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If you plan to overclock at some point in the future, you might as well get the better cooler and enjoy silent operation and cooler temps from now.

If you want to go with air cooling (smart choice imo), Cryorig R1 is a great cooler. It performs very close to Noctua D15 but it is cheaper and looks great too. It has a "Universal" option too if you wanted to use taller RAM or show your RAM though case window.
 
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Kobe Eveleigh

Kobe Eveleigh

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I checked on pc parts picker and oddly it wasn't there.

But I checked Amazon.ca and they have 2 results which where you referring to?

https://www.amazon.ca/Cryorig-Ultimate-Tower-Heatsink-2xXF140/dp/B00HUHC3WY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1495509252&sr=8-1&keywords=cryorig+r1

https://www.amazon.ca/Cryorig-Universal-Tower-Heatsink-XF140/dp/B00IAPJVLG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1495509252&sr=8-2&keywords=cryorig+r1


2nd one is probably out of my price range, CAD$195 plus tax & shipping. 1st is a bit more then I'd have wanted to spend still at CAD$106+ but will consider either 1st or 2nd anyways. I also noticed the 2nd is a 3rd party seller so I prefer not to buy.

Can I build PC without a cooler then buy one a bit later? Especially if I should choose the $195 cooler it'd take a little while before I can afford it. Also I don't remember for sure but IIRC I don't have any case windows. It's a Corsair 200R. Everything is still inside the shipping boxes.

Also another noob question, does a CPU cooler also help with keeping temps low for the rest of the system? Specifically the GPU as that I feel I'm more likely to OC. I probably would only OC the CPU once it's apparent the 7700k is bottle-necking and/or I can have a nice FPS gain.
 
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rhysiam

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You will need a CPU cooler as the 7700K doesn't ship with one. It does also get pretty toasty too. Any entry level tower cooler should handle things fine at stock. But when it comes to overclocking, there will probably be some extra headroom available to you if you go with a mid range or larger tower cooler. As @danielthegreate mentions, larger coolers tend to be quieter too. In terms of the performance difference, just bear in mind that you're probably looking at 200mhz at most from what's achievable with an entry level vs high end cooler. While 5Ghz looks much nicer on paper than 4.8Ghz, it's 4% performance difference, which will only be noticeable in CPU limited situations anyway... and if 4K@60hz gaming is the goal, CPU bottlenecks will be practically non-existent.

Here's the Toms recommended list for air coolers: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-cpu-coolers,4181.html

While normally I would agree with @danielthegreate about the R1, Canada PCPartpicker has it at almost $20CAD more expensive the the D15 at present. While the R1 is a great cooler, you wouldn't pay more for it, not when Noctua are widely recognised as having best fans, mounting system and post-sales support on the market.

I'd suggest you have a look at that Tom's list and see what the Canadian pricing is like.
 
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Kobe Eveleigh

Kobe Eveleigh

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Excellent thanks! Exactly what I'm looking for, I'd like to head straight for the most recommended one.

Does a CPU cooler also help with keeping temps low for the rest of the system? Specifically the GPU as that I feel I'm more likely to OC. I probably would only OC the CPU once it's apparent the 7700k is bottle-necking and/or I can have a nice FPS gain.

I think I'll buy the D15 unless getting a more high end Noctua cooler would allow a better GPU OC.

Checking out that list now
 
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clonazepam

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I noticed you picked the Corsair 200R. It wouldn't be necessary in a lot of setups, but if you insist on putting fans on the side panel, this will limit you severely on CPU cooler choices (large tower cooler + side panel fans means you'd never get the side panel to fit onto the case). I'd skip fans on the side panel just in case you had extra fans picked out for those spots specifically.
 
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rhysiam

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No, not really.

Technically an air cooler is dumping CPU heat into your case. If you don't have decent case airflow that can increase the temps in your case which will then have a knock-on effect for the GPU because it would be drawing in warmer air. That's really only an issue in ultra-compact cases however. Most tower cases have an exhaust fan at the top rear of the case, and most tower air coolers will direct hot air straight into that fan to extract from the case.
Some suggest that an air cooler naturally increases airflow around the CPU socket, which can help with cooling the power circuitry on the motherboard. But again, in most normal builds that's not really a significant factor.

So the short answer is no... a CPU larger/better cooler will not have a significant affect on system components in a normal and sensibly put together system, and certainly not on the GPU.
 
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Kobe Eveleigh

Kobe Eveleigh

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TBH I don't know? I recalled reading that the 7700k doesn't include stock cooling so figured I'd ask here what to do.

Can I put the fans elsewhere? Or do I need a different case, bad case choice maybe?

Anywhere that works is fine by me. Aesthetics don't matter as there aren't any windows on the case AFAIK. Either way I don't mind at all about aesthetics concerns only gaming performance.
 
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Karadjgne

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Ok.
First, there's an absolute need for a cpu cooler, you can't boot without one plugged into the motherboard, and without one the cpu will shut itself down in a matter of seconds due to over heating.
The i7-7700k is the top of the food chain for lga1151, there is no option to upgrade, it's already the best there will be. Also, it does not come with a stock cpu cooler like the i7-7700, in an attempt for Intel to save money since ppl will just toss it/ebay it anyways.
Choice of a cooler, either air or liquid depends only on 1 thing. You. How high do you intend to push the OC, how hard do you intend to push the cpu.
For everyday stock values and regular usage, a small cooler such as the 212 or deepcool gammax 400 or cryorig H7 is perfect. For heavy usage like rendering, or a decent mid level OC, you'll want to move up to a cryorig H5 or Noctua NH-D14 or be quiet dark rock etc. For high OC, you'll want serious cooling ability found in the larger liquid coolers or the largest air coolers such as the Raijintek Nemesis or Noctua NH-D15 or cryorig R1.

But there's no point in spending out cash until you decide exactly where you'll go. No point on dropping $50 on a smaller cooler just to turn around in 3 months and drop another $200 on a behemoth.

Air coolers do nothing for case cooling, they dump all their exhaust heat directly into the case, usually aimed at the rear exhaust fan. End result is a warmer case, if not by much. Liquid coolers if used as exhaust, dump all the cpu heat outside the case, so case temps stay lower. Liquid coolers mounted as intakes will dump the heat into the case, but have the lowest cpu temps as they'll always see a cooler source of airflow through the radiator.

The warmer the case temps, the warmer the rest of the components as there's no physical way to cool something mechanically to below ambient temps, so if the case temp is higher, the gpu temp will start out higher as the case is the ambient temp for it.

The only way to lower case temps is with airflow. That means you'll need decent fans on intake and decent fans on exhaust. Keep the air in constant exchange and case temps and cpu/gpu temps won't be an issue. Lack of airflow (not air, air-flow) just means you basically turned your pc into an oven.
 
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clonazepam

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The choice in cases is fine. Its your first build and you may have seen fan slots and felt a need to fill them / purchase additional fans for them etc, so I'm just pre-emptively giving you a head's up that you shouldn't need fans there.
 
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rhysiam

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See my answer above.

Just FYI, the D15 is the one of the biggest and highest end air coolers on the consumer market. It is a fantastic cooler and will probably last you forever, through multiple builds (Noctua have an excellent reputation for providing free mounting kit upgrades for customers who buy a new, unsupported platform). But, it is maaasive and it is expensive. Don't feel like you need to spend that amount of money. Like I said in my last post, a cheap tower cooler like the 212 EVO will probably keep things cool enough to get within 200mhz of a top end cooler anyway - which is a few %. So the D15, like any premium component when it comes to PC hardware, offers great pure-performance but terrible value for money.

It's your money, spend it how you like. You could certainly justify a nice cooler like that as a long term investment if that's what you prioritise, but just be aware that you don't need to spend anything like that sort of money to get a solid cooler.
 
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rhysiam

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Given you can get the dual fan D15 version for just $10 more, would you really recommend the C14S?: https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAB984BD8348&nm_mc=AFC-C8JunctionCA&cm_mmc=AFC-C8JunctionCA-_-na-_-na-_-na&AID=10592396&PID=3938566&utm_medium=affiliates&utm_source=afc-%zn

I realise there's going to be very little difference in the end of the day, but $10. Those NF-A15 fans run at over $35 CAD each, I'd pay the $10 just to run the D15 in single fan mode and have an extra A15 in the cupboard for future use.

I was going to recommend OP look at the cheaper Noctua coolers, but with the Canadian pricing, even the relatively small U12S is $75, compared to $100 for the dual fan D15. I don't normally suggest people spend money on things that aren't really going to have a noticeable impact, but when the price difference is so small, it seems silly not to.

I'd be looking at entry levels coolers, or seeing if there are any $50-60 large single tower options. But once you start looking at spending over $70, the jump to the premium dual fan D15 for $100 seems like a no-brainer to me.
 
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Kobe Eveleigh

Kobe Eveleigh

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Wow now I really wish I can pick solution for multiple posts. TBH I think that would have been the next thing. Yes I would have seen the fan slots and assumed I needed to buy fans to put there.



For gaming don't really know, AFAIK the stock speed should be enough for most of today's games. Gaming benchmarks vs Ryzen looked pretty good IMO. A few games benefit a bit from an OC to 4.8Ghz. I'm guessing I'll look to try for 5Ghz eventually but will keep things lower for the time being to maximize the CPU's lifespan. When a need for an upgrade arises at some point I'll look into selling this PC or pushing for a hard OC to get some more life out of the PC as I'd probably need a new motherboard as by that point I'm guessing there'll be new standards for GPU & CPU.

Present till 2018/end of 2018: Stock speed or OC to 4.8Ghz if performance starts to lag because of the CPU. The games I am interested in don't require anything beyond the level of performance offered by 7700k at stock although potentially Cyberpunk 2077 could be demanding. In the short term I will test if I can gain performance from a CPU overclock for Fallout 4 as that will be my main game and I will be modding it a lot, possibly placing more demand on the CPU.

2018/2019: 4.8Ghz/5Ghz to keep up with newer AAA's.

2020/2021/2022: As high as it can go, I'm guessing there'll be a new CPU architecture on a smaller node like 10nm/7nm which will probably allow a big jump in performance like 5-6Ghz and/or significantly higher IPC and devs will start developing PC games around those CPUs. I will overclock as high as possible to try to have the 7700k keep up a bit longer. Once it no longer keeps up while at highest possible OC I will look into an upgrade. The condition for me to immediately require an upgrade is if TES VI releases and the 7700k bottlenecks me in it.

I do expect some bigger CPU gains in the future now that AMD is competitive again with Ryzen.

I think 212 might be good since I'll be using stock for a good while. Might get LED version since it sometimes is on sale for cheaper than EVO.

Anywhere that works is fine by me. Aesthetics don't matter as there aren't any windows on the case AFAIK. Either way I don't mind at all about aesthetics concerns only gaming performance. Liquid is a no-go for me as I can't stand the idea of a water leak ruining the PC.
 
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Kobe Eveleigh

Kobe Eveleigh

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Agreed. I think I'll either get the 212 or go up to D15. Will wait to see how finances go in the next little bit.
 
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biglizard

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If you look through the multitude of my 7700k runs hot post you will see that small air is failing most of the time, the D15 will not let you down.

If budget doesnt allow for the d15, than at least look at The Cryorig H7. Better, way easier to install.
 
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Karadjgne

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The c14s gets almost the same temps, within 5°C,has a smaller footprint, is shorter and even dual fan only changes the temp @2-3°. It's a downdraft cooler, so high OC usage on the mobo isn't an issue with VRM's and fits with plenty of space. The c14s is the upgraded version of the older c14 and uses the same 140mm fan that the D15 does, without all the weight or size. Imho, the performance difference between the 2 coolers, the downsides to the D15 really doesn't add up to the $15 difference.
 
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rhysiam

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Originally OP was only talking about running stock with perhaps a modest OC, small air should have no problems there. But yeah, I totally agree that >4.8 is unlikely on a cooler like that.

If going budget though, good suggestion for the H7 over the 212, probably worth the ~$10CA more.

The c14s gets almost the same temps, within 5°C,has a smaller footprint, is shorter and even dual fan only changes the temp @2-3°. It's a downdraft cooler, so high OC usage on the mobo isn't an issue with VRM's and fits with plenty of space. The c14s is the upgraded version of the older c14 and uses the same 140mm fan that the D15 does, without all the weight or size. Imho, the performance difference between the 2 coolers, the downsides to the D15 really doesn't add up to the $15 difference.
Click to expand...
Yeah I suppose that's all fair enough. In my experience any tower cooler creates plenty of airflow around the VRMs, so that goes either way, and Noctua make it extremely easy to check compatibility issues with their exhaustive motherboard and RAM lists... the D15 gives you loads of options so I don't feel like it's particularly restrictive. It also includes the extra premium fan. In the couple of reviews I looked at the cheaper and smaller U12S comes within a few degrees of the C14s too, so you could make the argument to drop down even further. The few reviews I could find only tested Intel quad cores, and not with particularly high voltages, it would be interesting to see what happened under higher thermal loads. I feel like the much larger surface area of dual tower D15 will allow it to cope much better with a 200W+ OC on an upcoming i9 or Ryzen 9 processor. But that's purely speculation on my part and irrelevant unless OP is considering such an upgrade in future anyway.

For sure I take your point, the D15 is a massive cooler, and maybe it's not really worthwhile for a 95W quad core, even when priced so close.
 
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Kobe Eveleigh

Kobe Eveleigh

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i9's will be 200W+?? I don't really know about them, except my PSU likely isn't enough for a 200W+ CPU.

I think that just due to limited cash right now I'll buy either 212 or Cryorig H7 and if temps aren't great(will not OC initially) I'll get D15 at some point when i have more money.
 
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rhysiam

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An entry level cooler is a great choice. It won't be enough to squeeze every last bit of performance out of that CPU, but you don't intend to do that any time soon anyway. And, as I said in my very first response, you're probably looking at sub 5% performance difference between your OC on entry vs high end cooling anyway, which is very unlikely to make any tangible difference whatsoever.
 
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Karadjgne

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With Intel, yes, there's realistically no need to OC anything newer than sandy/Ivy Bridge, as the newer Intel IPC is basically what modern games are designed around. Especially at your lower resolutions like 1080p/60Hz. It's only when you start thinking about 4k or 1440p/144Hz that you really need the power of the top line Intel to keep up with the detail settings those gpus are dishing out.
Ryzen cpus are a little different. The infinity fabric version of HT can make very good use of higher speed ram, added to some OC bumping the memory controller speeds, its entirely possible to see an easy 20% performance boost, and depending on the game and gpu capability, that could be as much as 50-60fps. Kinda makes up for its Haswell comparison IPC vrs kabylake.

If all you are after is stockish performance, the Cryorig H7, especially the updated version, is the cpu cooler to beat, doesn't get much better. For some decent OC, a move upto the Cryorig H5, Noctua NH-D14, NH-U14S, Phanteks TC14pe would be good. Really want to push the OC, Noctua NH-D15, Raijintek Nemesis are good. With the 7700k, if you really, really want to max out the OC possibilities you'll need a 280mm aio. But, and it's a big But, chances are very good, especially with that particular cpu, you'll not be able to thermally max out the OC, you'll reach voltage limitations long before then. Many of those i7's are already running hot for only 1 reason, they are running stock values at 1.4v (sometimes a little higher), making any real OC all but impossible. It all boils down to the silicon lottery, you might get lucky and have a 1.2v or less cpu.
 
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