I need BIOS help I think or PCI help please!

Chubby215

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I have an Older Gateway with a Phoenixlabs MB installed where the BIOS is from 2008 and for Vista. I ran CPU Z to gather all my info on the rig.
The MB model is G33M05G1 and the BIOS is listed as from Phoenixlabs 841P041G. My issue is I have an Nvidea GTS 250 that I want to run. The PS unit I have will work with it. I just bought the Corsair CX650M. I install the card in the PCI slot, connect all cables and the unit won't even start. If I remove the card and plug into the on board display input it fires up just fine. I looked at the BIOS using F2 and I don't see any PCI option which is weird because there is a PCI slot on the board. I thought that perhaps since the BIOS is so old I may need to update it but I cannot find it anywhere. The machine came originally with Vista and I installed 7 Ultimate. This card ran fine with the rig before. I had it stored away and decided to bring it back. The rig runs like a champ with 8GB of RAM and the processor is Intel Core 2 Quad Q9300. I'm dying to play games again and have used this rig for them for years. I have no idea why it won't start with the card installed. I also cannot find updated BIOS for it. Am I looking in the wrong direction thinking the BIOS needs to be updated? I'm almost positive the card works fine as well. I Please help!
 
Solution
Not really surprised, no. Some graphics cards will run without the extra power connections attached, some will not and will instead emit a loud warning until the power is supplied.

Reflowing can work, but I've never seen it be anything more than a temporary solution. 6 months may be a tad generous. Further reflows will probably be needed at decreasing time intervals until it's simply too much hassle.

I'm not quite sure the fascination with resurrecting an obvious bad board. It wasn't worth that much when it was shiny and new. If you value your time, you could have already found a used card that would run circles around it, and wouldn't give you the headache of a non-booting system.

On another note, if you knew anything about...

Chubby215

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It looks like it's from Phoenix labs. It's pretty old. I don;t want to pay for BIOS software either. I've researched a ton of them and most reviews say no good. One app showed 22 missing drivers, another app showed only 7 on the same system according to PC World. If there's a slot on the board and it doesn't start with teh card inserted do you think it is a BIOS issue?
 
So, the card used to be installed in the system and it worked fine?

Now, when you install the card in the system it won't even power on?

You're either installing it incorrectly, or it sounds like the card has become defective. You don't need to update the BIOS if the card worked in the system in the past.
 

Chubby215

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The old power supply went so I shelved the PC for awhile. I decided to put it back in use and fired it up. I got rapid beeping from the board with the new/old PS I pulled from another rig installed. After some research I've found that the new/old PS (LiteOn 300W) wasn't enough to run the card hence the rapid beeps. I removed the card and fired her up and she ran like a dream actually. This was yesterday. I assumed I needed a better PS so I bought the Corsair CS650M today, installed it (pretty nice PS btw) and the rig wouldn't start with the card in the PCI slot. I removed the card and it fires up fine. The reason I'm asking about BIOS is because there is no PCI or PCIe category in the BIOS, plus since it IS old shouldn't I update it anyhow? The card worked fine before I decided to rebuild the rig. So weird... Let's assume the card is bad. It worked fine before and I'll test it on another rig tomorrow. I can almost guarantee it is still good. I don't have $ to drop on these parts. Let's stick to trying to solve this problem and I thank you all and appreciate the advice. Any further advice on a budget Graphics card that will run SWTOR and Neverwinter with middle of the road settings? I'm still concerned about no PCI options in BIOS though too. Should I restore to default? I used this for my music studio in the past and have recently been laid of from my job selling software. This is my only computer atm because my laptop crapped out on me last week hence my trying to get this old girl back in business. The laptop was a DELL with on board AMD graphics that worked fairly well. This rig used to run WoW at full settings using the current card I listed here.
 

Karadjgne

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In other words, it ran fine until you replaced the dead psu with a Corsair CS.

I'd start by checking the 2x power connectors on the mobo. Since it's a new psu, those connectors should have been a bear to install, making you think about getting a hammer to seat them fully. Which both the 20+4 pin and the 4+4pin should be. Then check every wire, in the connectors, it's not unheard of for those pins to actually get pushed out of the socket, so give all of them an individual tug.
If everything checks out, the pcie x16 slot should be getting power.
The 250 probably has a single 6pin pcie connector. For this, you'll need one of the modular pcie cables that should be plugged into one of the top 2x 6pin receptacles on the psu. Should actually say pcie or gpu on the connector.

If that's all done right too, it should work. Barring that, it's entirely possible that the mobo has up and died on you, I'd break out the reading glasses and visually check any and all capacitors you see for swelling or leakage. It's also possible that the gpu has died too, from aged capacitor failing.
Or, since it is a Corsair CS, and quite old stock, it's also possible it's either in the psu or the cables. You should have 4x pcie, so swap them out and try the other port on the psu.
Of after all that, get ahold of a buddy with an older (smallish) nvidia gpu, and test his in your pc, and test your gpu in his pc. If his don't work in yours your gpu is probably good still, but that'll leave mobo and psu. If he's willing, swap psu's, if his gpu in his pc doesn't work, it's a bad psu. If it does work, your mobo is toast.
Process of elimination.

Good luck.
 
The old power supply died? This could have damaged the graphics card.

The rapid beeping could be in response to the POST detecting an issue with the display adapter.

That 300 watt PSU would have been enough to power on the computer with the low end display adapter in it.

My money is on a bad GPU.

Test the graphics card in a working system, or test a known working graphics card in your system.

Edit: This is assuming you have correctly installed the graphics card, including the power connection to it.
 

Chubby215

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Thanks all. I've rebuilt this rig many years ago, i.e added some new pieces. It was a Gateway sold to me from a friend with the original MB that came with it pre installed. I upgraded the RAM, HD etc. The new PSU is working wonderfully (silent and the modular ports for the cables are a welcome addition for cleaning up the case for sure) and the GPU card is installed properly in the PCIe slot along with proper power connected to it using the 6 pin connector. The MB is getting power as well for I'm working on the unit as we speak. The 300W PS was enough to power up the system with the on board Intel Display built into the MB. I wanted to try a brand new 650W PS to make sure I had enough power for the GPU. I ran CPUID which is pretty dope software to pull all of the system info up to browse through. The MB is listed by Phoenix Technologies. I've looked into it and it seems they are a third party distributor that shoves MB's into mainstream rigs for distribution. Some of the other rigs I've built I remember having PCI or PCIe settings in the BIOS which is what freaked me out a bit here before I was ready to call the GPU dead. I'm typing this right now from the computer in question and it's running like a champ. Just can't game on it. Smorizio= If the unit fires up and runs what seems like fine would you say the CMOS battery is still weak or dead? I'm intermediate when it comes to building rigs but not a pro by any means. Is it weak if it runs? Helpstar = YES that is the exact rig I have save for RAM/HD/PS upgrades. That picture looks exactly like the MB I have. I ran CPUID and it detected the MB as from Phoenix Technologies. Think I should search for BIOS updates from Foxconn?? I'm guessing the GPU is dead... sigh. I just dropped $$ on a new PS and wasn't planning on getting a new GPU. I'll try and plug the GPU into another rig later today as I'm sure that will prove if it works or not. The old as hell BIOS freaked me out as well wondering if I should update it and since I couldn't find any updates I felt screwed. I'll update here later on what I find plus any replies to my concerns regarding the CMOS battery and anything else y'all can think of are very welcome. Thanks guys!
 

Chubby215

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I've replied to your comments as well. Thanks for getting back to me.

 

Chubby215

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I just looked up Foxconn BIOS ddownloads and it's asking for the chipset. As I stated above I'm not a pro so my question is this. The chipset is listed as P35, G33 and G31. Why 3 cjhipset listings? I want to be sure to update the BIOS properly of course. Thanks!
 

Chubby215

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Helpstar= Here's the link to the Foxconn MB download center for my MB. All dl's are for Vista and XP. Since I have WIN 7 ULT installed in this rig could that be a major problem? I seriously can't afford a new MB right now... sigh.

http://www.foxconnsupport.com/download.aspx?models=en-us0000319&category=C000000001&brand=en-us0000001&Series=en-us0000002&chipset=en-us0000111&keywords=&sort=
 

Chubby215

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Helpstar= Here's the link to the Foxconn MB download center for my MB. All dl's are for Vista and XP. Since I have WIN 7 ULT installed in this rig could that be a major problem? I seriously can't afford a new MB right now... sigh.

http://www.foxconnsupport.com/download.aspx?models=en-u...
 
windows has nothing to do with the rig not posting when the gts 250 is installed. A Bios update could help, but the risk of the update is higher than normal that you brick your bios by updating the BIOS from foxconn.

Did you check yet, if the 250 is working or not?

if a BIOS battery is weak, it could be possible that the right settings for a PCIe card won´t be detected or saved.
 

Kingshuk2003

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I think it may be most probably a driver issue or worst case scenario that the PCI slot is dead
I should be the BIOS only
But better give it to some computer guy for good bcuz you sound like really clueless in this matter
 

RALPH50

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Hey Chubby215, my suggestions:

1. BIOS Update: Your original rig I believe is the Gateway DX4710. I believe Gateway pre-installed their own BIOS from Phoenixlabs (which is defunct) on the Foxconn G33M motherboard and with probably Gateway security features which would stop you from trying to install a new Foxconn BIOS for the MB, which currently is from American Megatrends. So basically, a new BIOS update is out of the question.

2. NO Power with card installed: You said that when you install the new GPU, then no startup. I think that would be because the ACPI would shut down the power because of an unrecognized conflicting device. With the GPU card installed, you could try manually resetting the CMOS/BIOS by jumping the pins with a complete power cycle to get the ACPI power state back to normal with the card installed. Then if you can get the PC to startup and if you can't find any PCI settings in the BIOS, then just try disabling the on-board graphics and then set the new GTS-250 as your primary display adapter. It should recognize it if the BIOS was cleared.

3. If jumping the pins didn't work, then try removing the plug, then remove the CMOS battery, and then plug back in WITHOUT the CMOS battery and startup. I am pretty sure that the BIOS/ACPI itself is preventing the power startup and the flash rom needs to be cleared.

 
Why is everybody so obsessed with BIOS and batteries in this thread?

Batteries don't prevent a system from POSTing, unless they have developed a serious defect, and obviously that's not the case here. The defect wouldn't be discriminative about showing symptoms only when the graphics card is installed.

As the card previously worked with the current BIOS, whether a BIOS update was even available, it wouldn't be necessary and I would advise against applying it. BIOS doesn't get old and go bad like a piece of fruit, and because of it's critical nature to keeping running systems running, you only update it if you are looking to address a specific concern with the updated BIOS. If the update doesn't go correctly, you may have effectively bricked an otherwise working piece of equipment.

The GTS 250 is an old card. Very likely older than people remember. It's a rebranded GTX 9800+, which itself is based on a die shrunk rebrand of the 8800. A lot of cards from that time period are dead and gone due to age, not abuse. Even if the previous power supply didn't damage the card when it died (has not yet been ruled out,) the card is near, or past the end of it's useful life. I've seen enough cards from that time period go bad, I say be happy if you have ones that are still working.

Also, if the machine will not POST, the version of Windows installed on it's hard drive is irrelevant.
 

Karadjgne

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Post : power on self test. In layman's terms is basically Cpu? Check. Ram? Check. Gpu? Check. Etc. That's all it does.
Bios: basic input/output system. This controls everything. It starts the post, decides when and how things are setup, activates boot loading and even starts the OS. It's the basic working part of the pc brain.
Cmos: complementary metal-oxide semiconductor. This is the bios memory. It stores the bios setup, time, the actual description of the hardware etc. It's the basic memory storage of the pc brain.

When you pull the cmos battery/jumper pins, you wipe out the bios memory. So it's gotta start all over and discover for itself exactly what is what and where it is. So when bios starts post, instead of cpu? Check and move on, it's Cpu? Check, wait a minute, what kind, who makes it and what is it hooked to. Hdd? Check, wait a minute, how big, how does it run, raid or ahci, does it have the OS etc.
With a blank cmos after reset, when you turn on the pc again, bios will start the post, discover your gpu, make sure your gpu is routed to the correct locations/addresses for use then save all that info to cmos for the next boot. Flashing bios is only needed if the bios cannot recognize the gpu or how it is supposed to work. Since it already has been recognized prior, unless the cmos/bios somehow got seriously corrupted, it'll re-recognise the gpu upon a clean cmos reboot. So seriously doubtful that the cmos/bios process has anything whatsoever to do with the gpu issues. That leaves post, but you can get into Windows and still have a picture, so post isn't the issue. That ultimately leaves 2 things. Power and gpu.
A gpu (no matter what the wattage recommends) will always work with almost any size psu. That's work, not perform. A gpu in Windows uses relatively little power, far less than what a pcie slot can carry. It's only when actual performance is required (like gaming) that the wattage demands skyrocket. So, power, the gpu could easily be getting enough power from the motherboard slot to work, but if the pcie cable or attachment in the psu is bunk, you'll blackscreen quickly as the power supply is no longer capable of powering the card.
Gpu, same thing, but backwards. In the gpu you have caps and mosfets etc which control voltage, current, power etc. Under low requirements, they may just be barely functional. Add in gaming power needs and all of a sudden you just overloaded the circuitry, and poof! Gpu shuts down. Motherboard is identical situation.

It's almost guaranteed that this is a hardware issue, either psu, gpu or mobo. Could be due to age or could be due to the psu being a Corsair CS that's also very old. Until you find a way to test and pass both gpu and psu, there's no way to determine the exact cause, and testing involves the use of another pc and parts being swapped out.
 

Chubby215

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GUYS! Wanna be baffled?!?! Check this out! I took the card to a local computer shop that friends run. We tried the card and the PC wouldn't POST. Dig this... I never tried powering on without plugging in the 6 pin power cable. Why would I you ask? Right? I just installed the card after attempting "reflowing" on the advice of my pal at the shop. He says he does it all the time and you'll get at least 6 months out of it. Here's a link to how I did it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xanr4jkmEc&t=752s

I'm not sure if this helped at all for like I said I never tried loading the computer while teh GPU was installed without connecting the 6 pin supply to the card. I plugged in the card and connected the 6 pin connector. Same thing. No POST. I removed the power cable from the card and VOILA! It fired up! The card is running and the fan in spinning but no signal... I don't have a DVI cable anymore and the VGA cable doesn't send a signal. I tried the HDMI slot to my TV and the TV sees it but no signal. Drivers are your first thought eh? I downloaded the GTS 250 drivers and it said it can't find compatible hardware to fit the drivers. The auto driver find thingy on Nvidia's site always asks me for the java plug in to work which I have... Baffling eh? I'm so freakin dedicated to making this work now that it actually fired up without power connected to it. I guess I'll have to get a new card but what do you all think about this business?!?! The BIOS on the PC seems fine, the clock is correct and the unit works perfectly and fast as all get out. I want this card to work!! HAHA. Any advice now that it actually runs w/o power connected to it but if I connect power the PC won't POST. Should I STILL remove the battery on the board? I can;t have this thing crap out on me. I'm doubting that "reflowing" had anything to do with this issue for as I said... I never tried powering up with no 6 pin connector to the card. Any worries of it not working properly after I remove the battery and put it back in? I've jumped a board before but with a well informed IT pal here who's far more advanced than I am. Thanks!