Overclock losing stability

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jun 13, 2017

Please see the rig in my sig

Sorry for the long post, I'm really trying to keep this as short as possible, please bear with me as it is a TALE.

So I have been learning to overclock and at first it was working great but the performance keeps degrading pretty quickly. All I know is it has something to do with the voltage.

At first I was using Asus' eztuning wizard in the BIOS, but that proved unstable as the voltage was far too low, (basically they just make sure it will boot) the problems at that point were that games would stutter badly once every dozen seconds or so (sound and audio stop for about .25-.5 seconds) but the system as a whole was pretty stable.

But then I got much helpful advice and started doing it the right way. I had the "CPU SVID" support on as well (even though it says it is recommended off for overclocking, but I never really saw or looked at it), but I just kept increasing the multiplier, doing tests for about an hour or so (LinX twice, Prime95 Small FFT's for about 10min, Asus RealBench for 30min) play a couple games for a few minutes each to make sure it wasn't stuttering, rinse repeat, until I got to 4.7GHz, and then I starting failing tests off the bat. I assumed it was temp since I was hitting like 87C during stress tests so I put it back to 4.6GHz and called it a day.
I also posted about that online, was told it was not temp it was voltage, and decided to give 4.7GHz another crack. I then set my voltage to 1.35V (based on an Asus overclocking guide for my board family)(found SVID support and turned it OFF, also noticed I could no longer see my CPU voltage in CPU-z) fired it up and viola, it worked, passed all tests, and was even stable for gaming.

However the next day (I also leave my computer on always) I noticed there was some stuttering, even though it was kind of minor, and my system was a little wonky (WoW kept crashing, g-sync/v-sync wasn't working, fps drops all over the place). During a WoW raid I also noticed that my CPU was performing EXACTLY THE SAME as without any OC at all. I then got so frustrated I removed the CPU overclock entirely and reset the entire BIOS back to default EXCEPT the RAM OC which I kept at 3200MHz.

Anyways I decided to give one more shot since I was low FPS again and apparently I had gotten used to the 15-20fps increase I was getting with the overclock. I set voltage back to 1.35v, set my multiplier to 4.7GHz, left SVID ON, fired everything up. boom. 100% stable, nothing crashing, everything working right, gaming performance fantastic. Saw voltage was rock solid at 1.376V in CPU-z.

Next day, computer once again on all night in idle mode. Voltage was all over the place and way lower than what it was at the day before. like 1.29-1.34v, not even close. Set the voltage to 1.375v in the BIOS, and that is now where I am at. Games are micro stuttering every few minutes, just video very minor, performance dips and fps drops at heavy CPU usage times. (moreso than usual). Im at the end of my rope here.

Do I just need to turn off my computer when I am not using it? That seems like the safest option. Or am I just missing a setting somewhere? Does that 0.001v make that much of a difference?? (1.375 vs. 1.376) I just really don't know what I should do here.

I've been mostly playing Fallout 4 and WoW but I play BF1 to test the system as well which usually just produces the results more frequently than FO4. WoW's optimization is just trash so it tells me if there is stuttering within the first minute of being on if the CPU is stable or not, since it is constantly using a single core at 80-90%.
Some stats. I really don't know what all I am doing. I have almost every settings set to auto which is part of my problem but I have no idea what I need to tweak. There are about 4 other voltage settings or so and I am afraid to mess with them.

Ai OC tuner: Manual
Asus Multicore enhancement- Manual
CPU BCLK- 100MHz
CPU core ratio limit- 47
CPU SVID Support- Auto
CPU core/cache current limit max.- Auto
Min. CPU cache ratio- Auto
Max. CPU cache ratio- Auto
CPU core/cache voltage- Manual
CPU core voltage override- 1.375
DRAM voltage- Auto
CPU VCCIO voltage- Auto
CPU system agent voltage- Auto
CPU Graphics voltage- Auto
PCH Core voltage- Auto
CPU Standby voltage- Auto
(I can get actual numbers when I get home, this is going off memory and a video of the BIOS options)
(I DID NOT set the adaptive/offset mode as Asus suggested in their guide, as I have no idea what the point is)

Prime 95 Small FFT test temps: 93C Max
LinX test temps: 89C Max
Asus RealBench temps: 81C Max
Gaming temps: Spikes up to 65C, between 45-55C normally, as low as 24C at idle.
Ambient temp: ~21C

Using these guides:
https://rog.asus.com/articles/guides/guide-overclocking-core-i7-6700k-on-the-maximus-viii-extreme/
http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2103175/bios-overclocking-beginners.html

NOTE: I am not a fan of testing the system for 24hours and such. There's no way I can do that. I work 7 days a week (at least a couple hours a day, and I am absolutely terrified that something will go wrong while I am not there, and I will fry my $4,000 rig. I am also not a fan of cooking my CPU at UNGODLY temps for that long. Gaming temps get nowhere NEAR stress test temps and I am trying to preserve as much of the life of the CPU as possible, as I fully intend to upgrade to 8th Gen when it comes out and I want to sell the 6700k. If I need to do a certain stability test for 24 hours I may do it once but there is no way I am willing to do more than that!

aldan · Jun 13, 2017

it would be helpful to post your specs.and always,always,always overclock thru the bios.

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jun 13, 2017

aldan :

Specs are in the sig, as noted in the first line of the post, OC is done through BIOS.

aldan · Jun 13, 2017

sorry,i see it now.dont know your level of experience in overclocking so dont be offended here.reset your bios settings and start over.start by increasing your cpu multiplier gradually until the system becomes unstable.back the multiplier off until it becomes stable.this is your maximum oc with stock voltage.now increase multiplier until unstable again.increase cpu voltage gradually until stable.test with a reliable tool ie prime 95 or occt.sorry if this seems basic,but its how ive always done it.

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jun 13, 2017

aldan :

Yes, I've done that. Unfortunately there is external voltage regulation going on that pushes the voltage far past the 1.2v "base" of the 6700k. From what I have researched so far it seems most older CPU's voltage is constant, whereas mine is dynamic, I guess if no one has any better advice I will try to set it to adaptive mode and set the offset to 1.38V and see what happens. Also unfortunately... the voltage regulation either with Skylake CPUs or my board is very different than of previous generations. I never once crashed or got BSOD as stated in the beginners guide, even when the voltage set was FAR off the voltage required for stability (1.376v required for 4.7GHz, had it set to 1.35V). Furthermore, I have absolutely no explanation as to why my CPU was fairly stable at 4.7GHz at 1.35V but not at all at 1.345v or 1.355v, but 100% stable at 1.376v, also why 1.375V is giving me trouble when 1.376V is perfectly fine, I am not sure how big of a difference 0.001V makes. Going even further, I have no way of regulating/monitoring the voltage with CPU SVID disabled, as it disables the reading in CPU-Z (I can check the Asus AI Suite but that reading was always different than the one given by CPU-Z so idk).

This is just getting out of my league a bit, and I am really just afraid of tampering too much and ruining my CPU/MB. I don't really have another $700 to replace them right now. But I really can't stand stock performance on my two favorite games... (FO4 is not meant to be run at 100Hz 3440x1440 so it acts up, on stock settings I will get as low as 45fps, with the OC I hardly ever drop below 75, so its a huge difference, same thing with WoW, single core usage on stock bottlenecks the system and I drop under 50 in raids, with the stable OC, it's more like 70.) So you can kinda see my dilemma.

aldan · Jun 13, 2017

well you certainly come across like you know what you are doing.so your pc regulates your cpu voltage even when set on manual in the bios?if so youve got me stumped.

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jun 13, 2017

aldan :

Yes. For whatever reason there are multiple regulators. Enabling the CPU SVID Support (enabling external voltage regulation?), shows my voltage in CPU-z, but it is dynamic and it will range from 1.29ish to 1.34ish, but yesterday with it enabled, it was at 1.376v and not budging one bit. That is why I am stumped. I did not changed one setting between the two readings but they are very drastic. Disabling SVID support, I can no longer read my voltage on CPU-z, so I can only assume it doesn't change, but I have absolutely no idea, because I can't see it.

I may come across like I know what I'm doing. I'm a quick learner but right now I am completely in over my head. I have no idea what I am doing. I kinda fell ass backwards into a good OC voltage there at 1.376v because that's what it was reading constantly on CPU-z and I had a stable OC at 4.7GHz, but then it went to hell and the voltage was too low and all over the place.

Maybe I just need to follow the Asus Guide to the letter.

TheFluffyDog · Jun 13, 2017

So when you go back to stock settings, what is your RAM clocked at? you mentioned "leaving the RAM OC" which is troubling to me. XMP is a pre-set OC for your ram, but you are heavily OC the CPU which will effect RAM Clock stability or vice-versa.

I would reset and OC your core first as you have been doing and then try it with stock ram speeds.

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jun 13, 2017

TheFluffyDog :

The only thing I have changed with the RAM is the target frequency, which is what my RAM is rated at, 3200MHz. The base is 2133MHz, which means my RAM is under clocked at default. The voltages there are still set to auto. XMP is also set to manual, so it shouldn't be interfering.

TheFluffyDog · Jun 13, 2017

aldan :

There are 2 types of voltage regulation on these platforms.

Adaptive Voltage (voltage scales with response to clock rate)
C states (voltage drops during idle for power savings)

I would leave voltage on manual and just leave C-States alone as these are unlikely the cause of the issue.

TheFluffyDog · Jun 13, 2017

EpIckFa1LJoN :

TheFluffyDog :

The only thing I have changed with the RAM is the target frequency, which is what my RAM is rated at, 3200MHz. The base is 2133MHz, which means my RAM is under clocked at default. The voltages there are still set to auto. XMP is also set to manual, so it shouldn't be interfering.

you are manually change the ram clock to 3200?

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jun 13, 2017

TheFluffyDog :

Target DRAM Frequency - Auto -> 3200MHz

I could change it but I notice a SERIOUS speed decrease with it at 2133 vs 3200. I mean what's the point of spending an extra $50 or so on RAM if i'm using 2/3rd of its rated speed.

Stock on MB is 2133MHz at 1.2v, mine is 3200MHz at 1.5v, that bad?

TheFluffyDog · Jun 13, 2017

EpIckFa1LJoN :

If you raised the RAM Clock to 3200Mhz without adjusting the timings to the proper XMP profile timings, than that will definitely make it unstable. XMP adjust the frequency and the timings to theire rated numbers. AS you may have noted there is a dominator series with frequency rated from 2133-3200 with XMP and 1.2-1.35V. all of those kits come from the same assembly line and XMP just ups the speeds and at the same time increases latency to stabilize the speed. IF you are increasing the speed without increasing the latencies it will become unstable without additional voltage. Also XMP will up the voltage from the standard DDR$ voltage of 1.2V to the kits rateed voltage of 1.35V. Based on what you are saying you probably running 3200Mhz @ CL12 1.2V if XMP is not turned on.

TheFluffyDog · Jun 13, 2017

EpIckFa1LJoN :

There is NO WAY you can perceive the difference between 2133DDR4 and 3200. unless you are a professional overclocker running liquid nitrogen for RAM benchmarks only. Games will never benefit from that. Also, you havent adjsuted you timings so i would assume thats an issue as well. Try setting the ram to stock speeds and try your over clock again. IF its stable then turn on XMP, dont OC the ram yourself, its a whole other part of overclocking and the stability testing for RAM is much longer and needds atleast an overnight stability test.

I really think that the ram is the issue so lets see if we can try this next

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jun 13, 2017

TheFluffyDog :

Ok I'll try it. I found the tech specs for my RAM. XMP 2.0, it has SPD ratings and Tested ratings... I should use the Tested stats?

I've been running the RAM like this for quite some time is it possible this is causing my issues and not the CPU?
Also is it possible that I have damaged my RAM by doing what I have been? It seems like it is .15V over its tested rating.

Told you I have no idea what I'm doing

So what you're saying is to set everything back to default and start over with just the CPU, and then the RAM?

I know for a fact RAM does play a pretty heavy role in FO4. (pretty stupid) But faster and bigger RAM makes a much more significant impact in that game, so the RAM speed is important to me.

TheFluffyDog · Jun 13, 2017

also as a side note, when you increase RAM frequencies you increase how fast is cycles. When you increase latency you increase the number of cycles required for a command to take place. By increasing both you effectively cancel some of the benefits of the faster speed. THis is why XMP works out of the box, because they speed up one thing and slow down the other. High ram speeds do benefit for things like 3D modeling, where after a command has been executed by the ram and the read cycle begins, the file size is very large and read cycle takes up the majority of the operating time. In games, there are more commands with smaller file sizes and the benefits on higher speeds are canceled by the increase in higher latencies.

^FYI

TheFluffyDog · Jun 13, 2017

EpIckFa1LJoN :

TheFluffyDog :

Ok I'll try it. I found the tech specs for my RAM. XMP 2.0, it has SPD ratings and Tested ratings... I should use the Tested stats?

I've been running the RAM like this for quite some time is it possible this is causing my issues and not the CPU?
Also is it possible that I have damaged my RAM by doing what I have been? It seems like it is .15V over its tested rating.

Told you I have no idea what I'm doing

yeah, jsut set all the ram settings to stock. speed voltage everything. DO your core overclock again (which you are doing a good job on) and then after its stable, just hit the XMP button. that will raise everything accordingly to the rated specs. run your stress test again to ensure. Sometimes a high OC on the core and a high ram clock can interfere a little.

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jun 13, 2017

TheFluffyDog :

Okay, so does that mean my RAM is crap for gaming? I'm replacing it when I upgrade to 8th Gen anyways... what should I get?

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jun 13, 2017

Ok so at stock on my RAM, the latency timings are 15-15-15-36, at 2133MHz, at 1.2v, so will I see any difference at XMP 2 with 16-18-18-36 at 3200MHz, at 1.35v? or is it moot?

http://www.techspot.com/review/1089-fallout-4-benchmarks/page6.html
http://wccftech.com/fallout-4-performance-heavily-influenced-by-ram-speed-according-to-report/

TheFluffyDog · Jun 13, 2017

EpIckFa1LJoN :

it is moot. Also the chip uses an integrated memory controller, so by keeping the ram speed low you may even get some extra clocks out of the core. 4.5 vs 4.7 on the core will yield much more than anyhting ram could offer. Especially DDR4 (there are difference in DDR4 operation and DDR3 both are moot in game performance, but DDR4 is already faster than DDR3 so it becomes even more moot)

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jun 13, 2017

TheFluffyDog :

So should I even bother trying to OC the RAM to its tested ratings? Because as is in some parts of the game I struggle to stay much over 70. I'll set all to default and see what happens but from the benchmarks it looks like a couple hundred MHz of RAM on DDR3 have a very significant impact in FO4.

TheFluffyDog · Jun 13, 2017

EpIckFa1LJoN :

Your ram is fine, and is as "fast" as they say it is, its just that games will not benefit. IF you did video rendering of videos in 4k you might actually see significant scaling with an increase in ram speed (ie. 2133-3200 could yield upwards of 10% performance) and if you are a professional rendering and testing rendered scenes 10-15 times a day, this is a significant investment. Also, if you are building a PC and really getting into it, it will eventually become bragging rights.

for me, i collect limited edition GPU's i have a 980 ti MSI Lightning and a 980 ti EVGA Classy annnnd a Power Color Devil 13 295x2. And only the classy is in my build, the rest just sit there because they are "best of the best". Dominator Ram is kinda like that. It is definitely a solid, well build, nice looking ram kit, but its really not worth any extra money in a gaming benchmark. But if you like you like it, and if you are really into it, your allowed to like it

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jun 13, 2017

Okay then. We'll i'll try resetting that and starting from scratch. Will probably be until Friday that I know if it is even stable or not (I have raid tonight probably run it at stock and deal with the low fps for that, and I work all day tomorrow, so Thursday is the only day I will have to really work on it much..) I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for the help.

So for future reference... RAM speed over 2133MHz is more about bragging rights, and I should just get lower latency RAM? C15 or lower, maybe?

TheFluffyDog · Jun 13, 2017

EpIckFa1LJoN :

yeh i would just get your core clock in check first, then turn on the XMP settings. If i were you i wouldn't shoot for the moon if you dont plan on overnight stability tests. Maybe lock your voltage at 1.33 and just bump up the multiplier until it crashes. then go down one. IF it crashes again go down until it stops, and just bring the multiplier down until it stops crashing. you may not crash in the stability test but crash the next day or something, but again jsut lower the multiplier by one until it stops. for games, core is king, so dont worry about all the other overclocking stuff.

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jun 13, 2017

TheFluffyDog :

EpIckFa1LJoN :

yeh i would just get your core clock in check first, then turn on the XMP settings. If i were you i wouldn't shoot for the moon if you dont plan on overnight stability tests. Maybe lock your voltage at 1.33 and just bump up the multiplier until it crashes. then go down one. IF it crashes again go down until it stops, and just bring the multiplier down until it stops crashing. you may not crash in the stability test but crash the next day or something, but again jsut lower the multiplier by one until it stops. for games, core is king, so dont worry about all the other overclocking stuff.

on the CPU or the RAM? Because it seems like I was able to get a great OC at 4.7GHz and I'm pretty happy there if it works. Temps are good and i'm very happy with the performance there. Even with the RAM situation how it is, I can only assume performance will increase once I reset the RAM to stock.

Overclock losing stability

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