Best Case for cooling?!

Preds

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Good day/evening everyone

My question I have is which of these cases in your opinions is the best in terms of airflow and cooling ability; build quality and cable management:

Nzxt Source 220
zalman z9 neo
Silverstone ps 11
Silverstone KL05
Corsair SPEC 02

My mobo is the msi b350m pro vdh, CPU is Ryzen 5 1600 and GPU is the saphire pulse rx 580 with xfx 500w 80+ bronze.
Any and all feedback is welcomed and feel free to list some cases you feel are as good or better as those listed. As always, thanks community.
 
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Aeacus

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It's not as much as the case that determinants the cooling ability but the case fans you put in it. Case design only states how many fans you can install into it and if you have restricted airflow or not.

How about Thermaltake Versa H34?,
specs: http://www.thermaltake.com/Chassis/Mid_Tower_/Versa/C_00002473/Versa_H34/Design.htm
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/RQzZxr/thermaltake-case-ca1c900m1wn00

Versa H34 has plenty of case fan mount locations (up to 7 fans) and modular drive bays for unrestricted airflow (if you don't use 5.25" or 3.5" drives).

Since Versa H34 supports that many case fans and if you install all of them, you can either use PWM fan hub to control them all in sync or buy a fan controller that sits in 5.25" external bay for manual control for each fan. I've done so in my Skylake build (full specs with pics in my sig).
Oh, for my old AMD build, i'm planning to go with similar case as Versa H34 with the idea to mount all fan locations for optimal and quiet cooling. With 7 or so case fans, you don't have to run them 100% to get great cooling. Running fans at about 50% can provide better cooling performance as you'd have 3 fans running at 100%. Difference here is much less fan noise when you have more fans.
 

Preds

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Hello and thank you very much for your response. Makes sense that the case is just a platform for the real actuators of the cooling- the fans you put into the case, right, however what if the air around you is at a higher temperature, does moving air at a high pressure/ speed means it becomes cooler, like how a ceiling fan blows air around and it appears to be cooler than the ambient air temperature.

Bad news though, the Thermaltake H34 is not available in my country, I 've checked everywhere online, so...do you have any other recommendations. Oh and plus do you know how to balance the acoustics and the cooling performance of case fans within a case. Seems that wherever there is better airflow, there is more noise. You did mention that filling all fan slots will mean you can run them at lower speeds, so is that the way to silence the machine?
 

Aeacus

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You're welcome.

While moving air in a room or outside makes you feel cooler, same doesn't apply to the cooling of PC internals. For example, when using air cooling, you'll never get CPU temp lower than the ambient temp is. Though, this isn't much of an issue since CPUs can withstand up to 100°C of internal temp. For GPUs, it's about 90°C or so.


There are other Thermaltake cases that support plenty of fans, e.g:
Versa H35: http://www.thermaltake.com/Chassis/Mid_Tower_/Versa/C_00002474/Versa_H35_/design.htm
Core V31: http://www.thermaltake.com/Chassis/Mid_Tower_/Core/C_00002469/Core_V31_/design.htm
Core V51: http://www.thermaltake.com/Chassis/Mid_Tower_/Core/C_00002402/Core_V51/design.htm
Core V21 (stackable cube case and the most customizable case i know but doesn't have 5.25" external bay): http://www.thermaltake.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00002559

For a bit more premium price, you can go for Corsair 450D case,
specs: http://www.corsair.com/en-eu/obsidian-series-450d-mid-tower-pc-case

I'm planning to get Corsair 450D for my Haswell build and for my AMD build, i'm panning to get Thermaltake Versa H35. If the Core V21 would have 5.25" external bay, i'd get that for my AMD build (i love the horizontal MoBo placement that case offers).

Since hot air rises, case airflow rule of thumb is: front & bottom - intake; top & rear - exhaust.

I'll take my Skylake build as an example since i have plenty of high performance (and premium priced) fans in it.
As i already told you, i also have fan controller to control most of my case fans, which is Thermaltake Commander F6 RGB with 6 channels and 6 temp sensors sitting in my 5.25" external bay.
Fans layout (click on spoiler):
Fan controller:
Channel #1: Corsair ML140 - front intake (running 900 RPM, max: 2000 RPM)
Channel #2: Corsair ML140 - front intake (running 900 RPM, max: 2000 RPM)
Channel #3: NZXT AER140 RGB - top exhaust (running 1100 RPM, max: 1500 RPM)
Channel #4: NZXT AER140 RGB - top exhaust (running 1100 RPM, max: 1500 RPM)
Channel #5: NZXT AER140 RGB - top exhaust (running 1100 RPM, max: 1500 RPM)
Channel #6: Corsair ML140 - rear exhaust (running 1300 RPM, max: 2000 RPM)

7th case fan, Corsair ML120 - bottom intake (running 1200 RPM, max: 2400 RPM, connected to MoBo)
CPU cooler: 2x Corsair ML120 in push-pull (running 1000 RPM, max: 2400 RPM)
As my fans currently stand, i can hardly hear them. I also have Demciflex filter kit for my Corsair 760T case that keeps the dust out of my case internals. Since intake airflow is further restricted by high grade custom filters, the noise from air passing through them is a bit amplified, but not enough to annoy me.

What i love about my fan controller is that i can manually fine tune the speed of my fans. I've also set my fans to run so that the intake fans (where i sit) are at lower RPM to reduce fan noise and exhaust fans (further away from me) are at higher RPM to create negative pressure inside the case for optimal cooling.

A bit about my current temps too (click on spoiler):
Ambient: 27°C
Fan controller:
Temp sensor #1: HDD - 27°C
Temp sensor #2: PSU - 29°C
Temp sensor #3: GPU - 50°C
Temp sensor #4: MoBo (near CPU socket) - 31°C
Temp sensor #5: inside the case near ODD bay - 26°C
Temp sensor #6: outside of the case at rear - 28°C

Speccy (one of many software programs i use to monitor my temps);
CPU: 31°C
MoBo: 35°C
GPU: 59°C
SSD: 28°C
HDD1: 31°C
HDD2: 33°C
If i were to run all my case fans at max speed, the noise will be quite loud (37 dB(A) for Corsair ML) while creating powerful wind tunnel effect inside my PC case. During benching (e.g Unigine Heaven, Unigine Superposition, Cinebench15), i have maxxed out my case fans but for daily use, i keep my fans running quiet since they provide my PC with enough cooling, even during gaming.

As far as fans themselves go, here are specs of the fans i use;
Corsair ML: http://www.corsair.com/en-eu/cooling/ml-series-fans
NZXT AER RGB: https://www.nzxt.com/products/aer-rgb

Both fans are premium priced. Corsair fans because of high performance, mag-lev bearing and LED; NZXT fans because of good performance, fluid dynamic bearing and addressable LEDs (cotrollable with HUE+).

For cheaper fans you can go with Arctic F-series fans (i have them in use in my AMD build),
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/HPZQzy,hhbp99/

Since Arctic F-series fans doesn't provide any eyecandy, they are also much cheaper, while still having good performance. Max RPM is 1350 and they aren't as loud either while still having fluid dynamic bearing for long service life and quiet operation.
Here's further reading about fan bearings if you're interested: http://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/779-computer-case-fan-bearing-differences
 

Preds

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Hello there!

Maybe I'm being too paranoid about cooling my PC. However, my laptop had an overheating problem which made things really troublesome, with the "blue screen of death" or total shutdown when running games or other applications. I changed the battery and it works fine now but wouldn't want to replace a part of my gaming pc from an overheating problem. The build strategy of putting fans at low rpm at the front and higher rpm at the rear and exhaust sounds really good. But will this bring enough air in to the pc through the intake (paranoia talking...probably) for cooling airflow.

Another question is what about the fan placements specifically, if, supposedly, in the front it is blocked by the hard drive cage, wouldn't you need a higher rpm static pressure fan at the bottom to force air through the openings at the front.

Additionally, related to fan placements, wouldn't the front/bottom intake fan's airflow path interfere with a bottom mounted intake fan, making one or both of them useless for cooling, or do you just fill one slot and leave the other empty, or am I wrong in doing this? This is me being really meticulous in details, but I need things to be right as I don't want parts to overheat and wear out quicker.
 

Aeacus

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Only downside with negative pressure over positive pressure is that more dust enters the system. The needed air would be sucked in though all small holes and grille your case has. Since i have aftermarket filter kit in use, dust isn't problem for me. Without dust filters, dust will be a problem regardless which air pressure system you're using (positive, negative or neutral).

Here's Airflow 101 for you to read,
link: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/faq/id-1858957/airflow-101-setting-fans-keeping-computer-cool.html

And also a nice video which explains 3 different air pressure systems,
youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh6F2eccMec

When the airflow is restricted (be it the dust filters, drive cage, ratsnest of cables etc), fan with good static pressure is needed to push the air through restrictions. Though, deciding on which SP fan to go with can be difficult since most manufacturers release 2 types of fans: 1. AF fan (good CFM, bad mmH2O); 2. SP fan (good mmH2O, bad CFM). There is 3rd fan type too which is great as a AF and SP fan but those fans usually cost premium price.

Front bottom and bottom intake fans actually make the airflow going diagonally upwards, towards GPU. Interference happens only when you mount fans to face each other with opposite airflow paths.
 

Preds

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Oh so that's what happens to the airflow with bottom and front/bottom fans both mounted. One final question. Dust filters have their uses but they do lower air pressure so will an AF fan be good enough to bring sufficient air to cool the system or would you need an SP like Corsair high static pressure fans for the front, which may increase noise, so which is better and thanks again for your response.
 

Preds

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Oh so that's what happens to the airflow with bottom and front/bottom fans both mounted. One final question. Dust filters have their uses but they do lower air pressure so will an AF fan be good enough to bring sufficient air to cool the system or would you need an SP like Corsair high static pressure fans for the front, which may increase noise, so which is better and thanks again for your response.
 

Aeacus

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That depends on dust filter used. Stock dust filters that come with many cases have so big holes in them that using AF fan doesn't really matter. Hence why i bought Demciflex filter kit. Though, if you also go with better filters, e.g Demciflex,
link: http://www.demcifilter.com/

then SP fan helps to draw air though the filter.

As far as SP fans go, Noctua fans are one of the best (if not the best) fans out there,
link: http://noctua.at/en/products/fan

For example: Noctua NF-F12 industrial 2000 PWM fan is better than Corsair SP120 PWM fan.
Noctua fan has higher airflow (71 CFM vs 63 CFM), stronger static pressure (3.94 mmH2O vs 3.1 mmH2O), less RPM (2000 RPM vs 2350 RPM), less noise (29.7 dB(A) vs 35 dB(A)) and both fans are 4-pin PWM fans. Only downside is that Noctua fan costs a bit more ($25 vs $17),
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/ygV48d,NcQypg/
 

Preds

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Sorry for late reply and I think I have misunderstood what you said about the filters. Do you mean that stock filters have big holes in them so it does not matter which fan you use SP or AF? Also do you mean that with filters with denser mesh, you need Static Pressure fans to effectively move air through the filter?

Yea Noctua is a fan favorite, though expensive, these fans are better priced in my area, are they any good?
(1) https://pcpartpicker.com/product/WgGkcf/cougar-case-fan-cft12s4#add_to_inventory
(2) https://pcpartpicker.com/product/WWFPxr/bitfenix-case-fan-bffscf12025wwrp
(3) https://pcpartpicker.com/product/x8DwrH/cougar-case-fan-cfd12hbb
(4) https://pcpartpicker.com/product/3qp323/scythe-case-fan-sy1225db12mp (Double ball bearings)
(5) https://pcpartpicker.com/product/87tCmG/nzxt-case-fan-rffz120u1
 

Karadjgne

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The filter will be in front of the intake fan, not behind it.

Fans work by spinning blades. This rotation creates a vacuum in front of the fan, and since nature abhors a vacuum, fills it with air. The byproduct of the rotation is air exhausted out the back. Because of blade designs, at under @ 1200rpm, SP fans have a greater vacuum, allowing more air to be replaced. At high speeds, @ 1500rpm+, higher cfm fans work better, have a greater draw, and for speeds in between its about equal. This works for both intakes and exhaust, at lower speeds you'll get better airflow through the case with higher SP fans, at higher rpm cfm fans work better. Combo fans with blade designs to accommodate higher cfm and higher SP work equally well at any rpm, but not quite as good at the extremes.

The filter won't make a difference to either, draw is draw and the fans vacuum will get the air it requires. Internal concerns are different as they are affecting the fan exhaust patterns. Higher sp fans do a better job with obstacles, when reaching gpu intakes, but higher cfm fans work equally well when there's multiple fans flooding the area, the exhaust vacuum pulling air around.

So how you setup the case, fan curves, application etc has more to do with ability than just specifics of one is better than the other.
 

Preds

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Hello,
Thank you for your response. I get what you said about the strengths and weaknesses of both AF and SP fans at different rpm, but noise is also a concern.
As Aeacus mentioned turning fans to low rpm in front intakes reduces noise, but I'm worried that that air will lose its force while moving to the GPU and not have the cooling potential needed at low rpm. I've also researched a while back that the stream of air flowing through the fans are at a wider angle with AF fans and more focused through SP fans.
So which is the best of both worlds - for reduced noise and airflow - SP or AF at all rpm?
Considering that more focused airflow will reach the GPU and wider, more dispersed air will not have as much of this potential; basically I need the best solution for heat, from GPU and CPU; as well as noise and I know I'll have to make a compromise between these, and thanks again for responding, I don't in any way want to anger or frustrate anyone, as I said all viewpoints are welcomed. :) Also what do you think about my choice of cases?

 

Preds

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Thank you for your answer, although in my country it is more expensive than SPEC-02, but it looks good imo. Some say it looks like Bane.
 

Aeacus

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Out of the 5 fans listed (i compared the 120mm fans), the Bitfenix fan has the weakest performance. NZXT is a bit better than Bitfenix while Scycthe is even better than NZXT. While the double ball bearing does last quite a bit, it's also the noisiest fan bearing. Out of the bunch, the Cougar fans perform the best and i'd go with Cougar. If you want LED for eyecandy, go with the 3rd fan, if not, the 1st fan. Both Cougar fans are equally good. With 60+ CFM, 1.7 mmH2O @ 1200 RPM with 17 dB(A).

Specs too:
1. http://cougargaming.com/index_ss.php?id=363&L=4
2. https://www.bitfenix.com/global/en/products/accessories/spectre#specs
3. https://cougargaming.com/us/products/fans/cfd_blue_led_fan/
4. http://www.scythe-eu.com/en/products/fans/slip-stream-120-db-pwm.html
5. https://www.nzxt.com/products/fz-led

As Karadjgne already stated:
under 1200 RPM: SP fan
1200 - 1500 RPM: SP or AF fan
over 1500 RPM: AF fan

Since you like your fans to be quiet, Cougar fans above are a great choice.

Edit:
If you like Corsair SPEC-03 then how about the newest release of Corsair cases, a SPEC-04,
black: http://www.corsair.com/en-eu/carbide-series-spec-04-mid-tower-gaming-case-black-grey
red: http://www.corsair.com/en-eu/carbide-series-spec-04-mid-tower-gaming-case-black-red
yellow: http://www.corsair.com/en-eu/carbide-series-spec-04-mid-tower-gaming-case-black-yellow

Oh, SPEC-04 doesn't have ODD bay and i'm not sure it's available at your location though.

Corsair SPEC-ALPHA is also something to consider,
specs: http://www.corsair.com/en-eu/carbide-series-spec-alpha-mid-tower-gaming-case-black-red
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/jQ648d,6Vwqqs,Hw38TW,JsFXsY/
 
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Yup I love the look but give it bit as its a company rebate.
 

Preds

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Yeah I like the cougar fans, though what about Corsair high SP fan, forgot to mention that, I guess its basically either Cougar and Corsair at this point.
Those cases seem really nice, I see Corsair borrowing from the SPEC-ALPHA and a little from NZXT cases for the SPEC 04.
 

Preds

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Karadjgne

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Well as I said earlier, take stats with a grain of salt. What they don't say is that the Cougars make decent case fans if used in a vertical alignment, like intakes or rear exhaust. They tend to wear out quickly if used horizontal and upside down, it's the nature of their fluid hybrid bearings. Also won't say that the Cougar pwm are lousy for pwm clicking when not running flat out. While stats might be in Cougars favor mostly, many times the Corsair's are better overall performers, depending on the model and application. This is part of why Noctua, the Scythe GTs, Phanteks, Fractal design GP, Nzxt V are popular, very good performance without the downsides.
 

Preds

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Hello!
Yes I will be saltier next time,,,haha; but yea I get what you mean. And, yes, it has been a trend that I've noticed, doing my own research that the name brand fans are jacks of all trades, masters of none. Unfortunately, in my country anyway all of those are relatively expensive so that tips the scales to favor the cougars and other lesser-known brands. So, thank you for your time , advice and keep up the good work!! :)
 

Karadjgne

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You case, Fractal design R5, 4x fans total. Currently my 280mm radiator is set for pull/intake in front, and 2x 140mm exhaust on top. Fans are rated at 1100 for rad, 1200rpm for case. They idle @550 on rad, 450 exhaust, and they are set to max out at 900rpm, but never get there unless stress testing. During gaming, they might reach 700rpm/600rpm so are pretty much extremely quiet.

Be careful of overthinking the project, the gpu has its own intake vacuum, as does the cpu cooler, there's enough that cooler air will make its way around, eventually, depending on just how hard you press the pc and the fan curves you have set.

Most fans will work decently, some just more decent than others.
 

Preds

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Thanks for your input :)