disconnecting and lag on multiplayer games

vensus · Jun 25, 2017

Hi so I've been off and on for about a week now trying to make sure everything for my internet is stable, I've replaced our old modem and router with brand new store bought ones (modem=arris sb6190 v3) (router=netgear n900 dual band).. both of these seem to be working fine and should be over kill for what my internet service plan allows (150-200mbps).

All of last week while playing ffxiv stormblood I've been getting 90k error (disconnected from server) and what seems like slight rubberbanding. My internet doesn't show that it's dropped and i can still watch videos on youtube during these times, listen to radio podcasts without them buffering or stopping, etc. I tried playing smite to see if i'd have any issues with a different game a few days ago and while i didn't get disconnected from that game there was some bad server lag going on, sort of like slight rubberbanding.

I've been trying to do all sorts of tests to figure out if the issues I'm getting is coming from my internet or if it's purely something else? I've already had two techs come out and check our cables and splitters, our main coax line goes from the cable box to a 4 way splitter which has cables going to our tv boxes and either one of those 4 cables goes to our modem or it goes into another splitter (2 output) which then goes into our modem and the other cable doesn't go anywhere (it's just there plugged in).

Now the first tech replaced the old 2 way splitter with a new one and replaced the coax cable leading from the splitter to our modem, aside from that he said his health checks seem fine aside from some issue he can't figure out.. we had a 2nd tech double check what he did and he put a new coax cable going from the cable box to leading to our splitters.

While the last 2 days seem to have been okay when i play ffxiv (minus one d/c or two in those days), I've been keeping a log of speedtests all on the same server living about two hours from chicago and using a comcast server each time. What I seem to notice is the first day i would do a test each hour and the stable numbers i'd be at is (ping=16-17, down=125-156mbps, up=24mbps) now below i'll explain the logs more..

first day (start time 9am to end time 3am)

solid stable numbers from 9am-2pm
upload speeds went from 24 to 7-11mbps from 3pm-4:30pm
my brother was downloading a game on steam from 5-6pm (download went to around 27-45mbps, upload around 9-20mbps)

after his game was finished downloading everything from 6:30pm-3am was stable looking again.

now.. second day (start time 2:20pm-2am)

stable numbers from 2:20pm-5pm
around 5:30pm-5:50pm upload went from stable 24mbps to around 10mbps.
things looked stable again but i d/c'd from ffxiv at 6:33pm where upload showed 21mbps, otherwise from 6:20-7:40pm things were back to solid.

from 8:15pm-9:10pm i was watching a steam as i played ffxiv but only speed difference i saw was download went from 125-126 to 123-124, upload was solid 24 still.

after that everything was solid to 2am..

now today so far (start time 21:37pm-3pm)

stable numbers from 12pm-1pm.
around 1:38pm I got d/c'd from ffxiv and happened again and again from 1:38pm-2pm

1:38pm (ping 17, down=126mbps, up=23mbps)
1:43pm (ping 16, down=126mbps, up=21mbps)
1:52pm (ping 17, down=126mbps, up=1.76mbps)
2pm (ping 17, down=125mbps, up 4.97mbps)

after that things seemed stable again from 2pm-3pm so far, around 2:30pm i was at 125mbps down, 23mbps up and testing it at 3pm showed 126mbps down, 22mbps up.

3:22pm.. I got d/c'd from ffxiv again, down=122mbps, up 24mbps.

Now that the logs are out of the way.. Does this seem like there's still an issue with something on my end? I've been thinking that I should try unpluggin the main coax cable leading from the cable box, putting it directly into the modem coax cable by using a adapter/extender to bridge the two cables.. that way i can make sure the issue isn't being caused from any of the splitters or extra cables, etc. I believe my modem signals seem fine for me to go ahead and do this.. I'm just at a loss.. our provider is comcast and i hate to say it but i fear most of their techs don't seem to care about stuff. I'll link a picture of my modem signals below..

http://imgur.com/a/TUno2

All speedtests were by using speedtest.net

Anything I can do aside from that to figure out if my internet is okay? I'm willing to do anything to make sure I'm solid.. it just seems weird that speeds stay really stable but then sometimes i catch it dipping really really low and i understand times of the day and internet traffic, etc. but why would my upload speeds be changing so much like that?

Sedivy · Jun 25, 2017

Forget the speed unless it's totally throttling you (like your brother torrenting something).
What you need to test for is latency, jitter, and packet loss. Ookla discontinued pingtest.net so find another tool to do this with (plenty of tools around to test if your connection is voIP worthy). VoIP quality is pretty much is the same quality you're wanting for gaming/vent/ts etc.

vensus · Jun 25, 2017

Sedivy :

Are you sure it isn't speed related as well though? things felt like they we're slowing down about 10mins ago and testing it again.. was showing download speeds hopping around 20-60, very weirdly, etc. But aside from that I'm doing a cmd ping test straight to the server location of ffxiv that I play on and doing a ping test to google, side by side for about an hour to see how it goes.

Is there a certain tool out there for testing that stuff that'd be better then doing a >ping (ip) -t or -n 1000? etc.

also thank you btw.

Sedivy · Jun 25, 2017

Even with lower speeds you listed, connection should be fine if it's quality connection and not a lot of noise. Often traffic (and therefore available speed) will affect both speed and noise so it can correlate. But if you call your ISP and argue about quality of connection, listing off speed won't help you much. If you start complaining about latency and jitter and packet loss and how you just can't video/audio conference or game, they'll do more than tell you "speed is ok so it's not us" and hang up.
It'll also matter what nodes they're connecting you to. When you test certain addresses, your connection seems great. You suddenly test another and it's absolute crap. Why? It routes through a certain node and that node isn't doing so well.
This used to happen to me with wow often, and we (and by we I mean mass of players from the city trying to connect to same server) would have to submit pages to the ISP and test results and traceroutes to prove that trying to connect to a particular server through x node was super crappy and they should fix it. They tend to just say oh we're just connecting to them, it's not us, it's downstream but that's bullshit. They're supposed to oversee their connection and offer a better route if the one you have is not satisfactory or intervene with whomever they're connecting to.
As for which test, I like dslreports.com Under Tools->Line Quality. Make sure first you either bypass the router and plug into wall directly with your computer, or go into router settings and find a setting that says something like Enable Wan Ping Response and enable it.

vensus · Jun 25, 2017

Sedivy :

Okay I went into my router settings and enabled Respond to Ping on Internet Port (I assume that's netgears way to enable wan ping) I also set NAT Filtering to open (which I'm assuming is the closest thing netgear has for a firewall setting).

As for the test I ran a quick test using dslreports tool, http://www.dslreports.com/pingtest/67969849747b/3435444?r=67

I also did a cmd ping test using the data center ip side by side with googles ip and it turned out as follows below.

Ping statistics for 204.2.229.10: Packets: Sent = 5000, Received = 4989, Lost = 11 (0% loss), Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 89ms, Maximum = 131ms, Average = 98ms

Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8: Packets: Sent = 5000, Received = 4992, Lost = 8 (0% loss), Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 26ms, Maximum = 71ms, Average = 27ms

I'm going to try to keep pinging stuff while i'm playing ffxiv later and see what happens during the time I get disconnected. but aside from that what's things look like?

vensus · Jun 25, 2017

Okay.. so update, i'm doing a ping test while playing smite and ran a few more dsl tests during me and my bro playing smite. below is what we're getting and this is with imput lag happening in-game, slight rubberbanding, etc. no disconnects in 2-3 hours of playing but the lag is terrible and way too often..

http://www.dslreports.com/pingtest/8cc38ba264b2/3435452?r=280
http://www.dslreports.com/pingtest/88b975b7b492/3435462?r=117
http://www.dslreports.com/pingtest/848c69a7bbc6/3435468?r=486

Ping statistics for 204.2.229.10:
Packets: Sent = 2000, Received = 1858, Lost = 142 (7% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 89ms, Maximum = 159ms, Average = 104ms

Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
Packets: Sent = 2000, Received = 1893, Lost = 107 (5% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 23ms, Maximum = 89ms, Average = 29ms

Sedivy · Jun 26, 2017

Your packet loss and your ping are not bad. You should have next to no packet loss, so not great but still good. Your jitter also looks very good.
So as far as their test servers go, your connection is a-ok. Now you need to test for your connection to the specific server you use for your game. Your latency did jump when you were playing with rubberbanding, it doubles approximately so, not great. It used to be very noticeable playing in wow with latency of say 40ms vs 200ms and if it went over, I had to basically not raid. 120ms should still be ok though you'll have to account in your reactions for not instantaneous response.
But again this test is connection to test servers that dslreport is using. Now you need to test to a specific address/IP. First check what the gamemaker says about their own servers:
http://status.hirezstudios.com/
Then you need the address of the server they're using. I'm not sure how to find this. Blizz lists theirs when you select the game from a dropdown menu https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/running-and-analysing-a-traceroute and even gives you instructions on how to do traceroute to it so they can diagnose. I haven't played smite so I don't know where you'd find this info but this is something to ask their support or forums about.
(btw after you're done testing everything and figure things out, turn nat filtering back on. I'm not sure it was needed to turn it off at all but if the test isn't warning you that you're behind a firewall and it can't ping you, then leave it until done testing)

vensus · Jun 26, 2017

Sedivy :

Even the link that says it failed at 15% on basic ping and 37% on stream? I also forgot to mention but at times while playing smite last night me and my bro were in a skype call playing with two other friends, there was a few times in that 3 hour time frame where we sounded robotic like to them..

How would I test a certain set of server ips with dslreport? When I go to line quality test this is all I have on the page http://imgur.com/a/lDD9l (assuming the server ip shouldn't go into the test ip address area?)

Aside from that I forget if I mentioned it.. but about two months ago we had a bad thunderstorm come through our area and we thought it fried our main comcast tv box (till one of the techs messed with it and got it working again). during this time we still had our old modem and router, having none of these issues we're getting now with internet. So we thought our old modem/router needed replaced because the modem would have new event logs almost hourly but wouldn't disconnect to reboot, etc.

Even with our new better modem and router, ever since that storm time frame came through before then things wouldn't have issues in smite, no issues with ffxiv and no robotic voices happening during many skype calls. Is it possible that these techs coming out are over looking a major issue located at the cable box that might have got messed up slightly since then? I'm just confused how things had no issues before then but ever since the storm it's felt as if anything we try to do to fix things nothing is working.

edit: slight update.. went to check my modem signals to see what they're sitting at before I try to have the main coax line go to our modem, by passing the splitters and any interference. event logs have stuff that popped up last night and about an hour ago today.. event logs and signals linked below

http://i.imgur.com/mZeWMwf.png
http://i.imgur.com/IyUQOAl.png

Sedivy · Jun 26, 2017

Where does it...oh. Oh I did not see that. Oh yes that's pretty bad. This is something to submit to your ISP and ask what's going on. You shouldn't be having that bad a packet loss. Wait until it starts happening to call them, or submit it in writing (chat with tech support so submit a link) so that you don't have to wait until it's happening. They'll ask you to do this so you might as well try, but when this starts happening, bypass the router and plug your laptop/computer directly into the modem and check if you get the same thing.

Power wise, the only thing i can think that they did incorrectly would be improper grounding which can really mess up your stuff but I don't think it's what's happening. Excessive splitting can also cause issues but again I do not know if that's what it is and it's the first thing they'd troubleshoot so it would be odd for them to do it themselves. I'm no expert on this so you'll have to wait for someone else to chime in on what may have gone wrong potentially.

Logs from your router are good, but your ISP needs to give you range of normal values so you know how far you're out, and also I can't really interpret their log. Again, something to have ready for them for sure. I do this over email with my ISP, easier for them to list a checklist of things to look for in the log.

Finally, for connecting to individual servers, run a traceroute manually. You get an output similar to what you see on that test, on the bottom from individual servers, but you run it from a command prompt instead of having them do it (they have a fixed list of test servers instead). Like so:
https://support247webs.com/windows-traceroute/

vensus · Jun 26, 2017

Sedivy :

Okay so I'm thinking about having a higher up tech from comcast come out sometime this week.. what would you suggest I do in the mean time till then in order to give this tech a good idea of the issues at hand? It seems most times they just look at modem signals as they mess with cables outside and then call it a day..

I'm assuming I should hang on to those dsl reports show casing the bad ping and try to keep track of that stuff as much as I can so I can show the tech what's going on with that? Aside from the dsl reports and cmd traceroutes/pinging servers for logs of what's going on, anything else you'd suggest for me to test in the mean time?

I was just trying to play smite again for the last 30mins while recording to see if I could capture what the rubberbanding looks like from last night, but so far it felt stable and while last night I did have my brother playing with me both on the same connection to our router (cabled) we've done this many many times before in the past with out these sort of issues popping up. So I don't think it should be a traffic issue? Is it possible certain time frames of the day are being affected while the rest of the times it's acting normal?

I'm going to try to keep logs of times during the days and record gameplay to get some captured footage of what's exactly going on. Along with this next time There's packet issues I'll try to plug the computer directly to the modem and see if it's still doing it or not.

Also I just want to say again Thank you for keeping up with me on this issue and helping me along the way, I'm very grateful of the help!

Edit: Sorry.. what should I be keeping an eye out for when doing the traceroute cmd test? I enter tracert -d 204.2.229.10 and it gives me this below. (If something is messing up during a tracert test would it say something afterwards? just want to make sure I know what to look out for)

Tracing route to 204.2.229.10 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 10 ms 25 ms 10 ms 96.120.26.221
3 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 162.151.34.109
4 19 ms 18 ms 18 ms 68.86.188.246
5 19 ms 18 ms 27 ms 68.86.91.165
6 18 ms 17 ms 18 ms 68.86.85.138
7 18 ms 19 ms 18 ms 129.250.66.65
8 74 ms 76 ms 73 ms 129.250.4.157
9 17 ms 17 ms 18 ms 129.250.3.7
10 74 ms 70 ms 69 ms 129.250.5.17
11 73 ms 75 ms 72 ms 129.250.3.121
12 73 ms 73 ms 73 ms 129.250.7.33
13 76 ms 75 ms 73 ms 129.250.195.46
14 73 ms 73 ms 74 ms 204.2.229.234
15 73 ms 73 ms 73 ms 204.2.229.10

Trace complete.

Sedivy · Jun 26, 2017

Don't call him to come. The techs they send out are usually trained to check only a few things none of which are likely to be your issue. Only if you certain it's hardware related somewhere from your place to local network is it useful to call them (and sometimes not even then). The connection quality they'll check from wherever they're based, you do not need a technician for that. You just need someone from tech support on the phone (or in chat or email, depending on how your ISP's tech support likes to communicate). I'd get them on the phone, say I've got test reports for whenever this was happening, give them the link (they should provide you with an email to do this), and then submit everything you have. If it's connection issue somewhere down the line, it's on them to clear that up. If they do suspect a hardware issue they'll send out someone anyway.

Traffic issues are possible, again this is not something that will be on your end as your first few hops seemed good. This is on them to test down the line and if it's a traffic issue, to resolve in some way.

That traceroute is fine though I like it when it also lists addresses and not just IPs (it is one of the options in the command prompt though I forget what you're supposed to type for it), so I have an idea where it's physically moving. There are sites that will let you plot it out geographically and stuff.
That traceroute is pretty clean. Was rubberbanding happening when you did this?

vensus · Jun 26, 2017

Sedivy :

Okay I'll be calling them sometime today or tomorrow to go over all of this, so if there's an issue more on their side of networking stuff they should be able to handle fixing things on their own then? I just worry with it being comcast and the rep they get normally, that they'll take forever to get things fixed and the worse is calling them later in the day where you're linked with talking to someone over seas..

I'll see if I can maybe get it to list the addresses by doing a bit of google searching into the settings, that was not during any rubberbanding.. so far right now things seem fine and stable when playing smite for an hour now, I'll do more tracert tests, along with a few more dsl tests and other basic cmd ping tests as i'm playing smite or ffxiv today.. I'll also keep in mind when my brother gets on to play and if issues are showing up before he's even sharing the network to cancel out an in-house traffic issue.. which by the way, isn't there a way to test just our in-house ping/packets/etc? think if i remember right.. I can do it in cmd by running >ping (modem ip) and do a long test of that to see if it's in-house or something beyond the modem and router?

Sedivy · Jun 26, 2017

Do not talk to customer support, they're pointless. There should be a menu right at the start, and you select tech support, they're the only ones that can help. As for where they're calling from, can't comment on that, though typically tech support people tend to be at least in the same state. Do they not have a local number for you to call?
I...don't know about in house. I know first hop is in your home, first few hops are to your local ISP and then after that you watch the addresses in the traceroute. Here's a pretty short explanation: https://www.inmotionhosting.com/support/website/how-to/read-traceroute
If you want, list whatever the server address is to your smite server, and I can run a traceroute on mine, when you're having issues (if I'm on at the time that is), to see if I'm having the same issues. Because my route is bound to be very different, it'll be interesting to see where the variance is.

vensus · Jun 26, 2017

Sedivy :

I should be able to find our local/tech support number for comcast, I'll be sure to remember that instead of getting stuck in a call with customer support.. lol. Gotcha.. I'll check more into the traceroute stuff just to double check to cancel out in-home issues being a cause.

I tried looking up smite's server ip but supposedly they don't give it out, something about abuse of it. But there is suppose to be a keybind in-game that pops up fps/ping/latency. I could give you the ffxiv data center ip and let you try that when I'm starting to have issues.. their ip to reach their servers is listed below.

204.2.229.10 (the server ip I play on)
204.2.229.9 (the other NA data center ip)

there is also EU data center below..

195.82.50.9

Sedivy · Jun 26, 2017

Yeah I'll try it and test it out. Just let me know when your issues start (or what time they usually start) and I'll check then.

vensus · Jun 26, 2017

Sedivy :

Okay sounds good! Thanks again, it's hard to guess but it was going on all from 8pm-12am cst last night. otherwise soon as I begin to notice issues i'll post another reply and get some of those tests running during it.

Edit: Sorry.. I wanted to update that I found that I can ping and test my packets from the computer to my router or modem, either one.. to figure if it's a in-house issue or beyond my control. I also was wondering.. would having packet loss issues and the such outlined in above posts cause for weird dips in download or upload speeds? It's normally stable looking for speeds but sometimes when i begin having these issues i'll run a speed test and either it's okay or seems to act kind of haywire with download hopping around and sometimes upload will kind of hang before it completes.. or get fairly low without say torrenting or doing heavy downloading, etc. on our internet.

vensus · Jun 27, 2017

I believe things are starting to slowly act up again if you're around, doing ping tests from computer to router and modem as all of this is happening just to check in-house stuff.

Sedivy · Jun 27, 2017

Crap I wasn't around at that time. Maybe today.
Packet loss will be most obvious in stuff like voIP phones, voice/video conferencing/chat, gaming or anything that requires instant response of some kind back and forth across the network. Watching video or downloading files, not so much because in essence they can queue, so whenever the connection improves, the download continues. You're after all just looking at the finished product. Even video streaming is partially insulated from this due to buffering so the fact that the data comes in stutters and spurts doesn't matter, as long as it does go through at certain speed which only has to be a bit greater than the speed at which the video is viewed (also obviously dependent on the quality of the video/size of file/speed of connection).

vensus · Jun 27, 2017

Sedivy :

I ran a ping test last night from my computer to my router side by side with one pinging to my modem. Below is what I'm getting for those and I was thinking of doing a tracert today sometime when things seem to act up, go down the list of ip's one by one to ping and see at which hop it starts to lose packets.

http://imgur.com/a/aKWFN

Sedivy · Jun 28, 2017

192.168.0.1 is you or your router. You wouldn't expect anything there, that's just a few meters of cable.
And I don't think it's necessary to ping each one on the route. You'll see what the total packet loss is. It's up to them to figure out where the issue is. You just need to show that you have it when trying to reach server you want to play on.

vensus · Jun 28, 2017

Sedivy :

Okay, so as long as I have a tracert that shows the hops and which ones are losing packets.. that'll be good enough to send to tech support for them to see where the problem is located?

Sedivy · Jun 28, 2017

Submit test results you've been doing when the connection starts to go bad and include traceroute to the server and that should be enough. If they need router logs, they'll ask, and if they need you to test anything else out, they'll send you instructions. So yeah that should be enough.

vensus · Jun 28, 2017

Sedivy :

Okay sounds good! I'll update on how things go within the week, otherwise again thank you greatly for all the help!

Sedivy · Jun 28, 2017

Good luck

vensus · Jul 7, 2017

Sedivy :

Okay so it's been some time and things are looking better then they were but still losing packets at random when playing my games. What i have noticed is that least with ffxiv's ping to their server.. when things act up with losing packets it lasts anywhere from 20-40mins before going stable again for an hour or so, then it's back at it again but still fairly random time frames.

I've tried contacting comcast tech support on the phone but it still puts me through customer support, I'm going to try to call again earlier in the day so I can hopefully chat with someone from the states.. otherwise this guy did a quick 5 min test from his location to check things and said everything looked fine, but he wouldn't allow for a 24-48hr monitor of our network or just didn't understand..

I now have a post up on comcasts forums trying to get some answers from there about the issues as well, since I couldn't get someone to monitor our network to pinpoint whats going on. I've also put up a post on ffxiv's tech forums in hopes that they'd address it.

disconnecting and lag on multiplayer games

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