go 7700k for gaming or get 1700 and upgrade to its new CPUs as AM4 will last till 2020

mcle · Jun 26, 2017

hi guys my friend is looking to upgrade his gaming build.
as above, he wants it to last 3 years or longer and so, is wondering if it is worth taking a performance hit now by buying a 1700 instead of a 7700k and waiting for dx12 support to use ryzen's more cores and get better FPS. As well as being able to keep his MOBO and upgrade to zen 2 or 3 down the line. or if he should just go with a 7700k now and do a full upgrade later.
he plays at 1080p with a 60hz monitor.
also, should he wait for coffee lake or is that releasing in 2018?

frostedtim · Jun 26, 2017

If your friend is just looking to do gaming, then stick with the Intel 7700k. It has better single core performance than the Ryzen CPU's, and generally outperforms even the 1800x in most games (not by much, but still...). Also, there are a lot of sales going on right now if you shop around for the Intel parts. Ive seen some pretty great combo deals for 7700k and motherboards on Frys.com and you might find better if you use the pcpartpicker.com site.

mcle · Jun 26, 2017

thanks, you don't think that zen 2 or zen 3 will be good upgrade paths? i thought that with x299, coffee lake and ryzen games will soon start optomising for multi threading not clock speed

frostedtim · Jun 26, 2017

mcle :

The Ryzen 2 and 3 lines will be lower end models with lower core/thread counts than the 7 and 9 series. They will perform behind the i7 7700k by far.

As far as multicore optimizations, for games, it will still depend on how many cpu/threads the game is optimized for, and the 7700k will currently outperform a 4 core, 8 thread CPU from AMD. Ryzen 1700 has more cores/threads, but still gets owned by the 7700k. As far as future optimizations, it is purely speculative. Based on budget and current performance, for gaming, the 7700k is better. And is on sale.

mcle · Jun 26, 2017

thanks, i think i'll go for the 7700k. by zen 2 and 3 i meant the 2018 to 2020 releases of the new ryzen line

Miyconst · Jun 26, 2017

If your friend is going for gaming and gaming only, then go with Intel i7-7700k, especially if you are able to find a good deal for Motherboard + CPU combo.

On the other hand, if your friend does at least some multi-threaded work such as video editing, software development or so, the AMD Ryzen is a clear winner here. Personally I notice slow down when switching from my Ryzen 7 1700x @ 3.9Ghz machine to Intel i7-4930k @ 4.5Ghz. The i7-4930k has weaker cores compare to i7-7700k, but there are six of those.

mcle · Jun 26, 2017

thanks guys. i'll tell him to get a 7700k. but i wish him luck in finding a good deal in Australia

Mike3k24 · Jun 26, 2017

Frostedtim I'm sorry but where are you getting this information from?

@OP Tell him to look into the AM4 platform; will last long and has better upgrade paths than the soon to be dead 1151. RyZen cpus perform less than 10% behind in gaming and kill its opponents in multithreaded apps. Ryzen is the way better looking platform currently. https://youtu.be/nYzr4FhLZtw

frostedtim · Jun 26, 2017

Mike3k24 :

I can point to the Ryzen reviews right here on the Toms Hardware site for you. The i7 7700k beats the 1800x in gaming (which I did say "not by much, but still..."). The OP asked about gaming, and current price/performance for gaming advantage is held by Intel. You want to talk about workstation apps for video editing or other stuff, then yeah, then Ryzen becomes the better option.

AMD is still having to do a lot of catch-up to get games optimized for its platform. And Intel just released its Skylake X and Kabbylake X CPU's for the workstation sector. Reviews are still being conducted so we will see how that goes when they come out. But speculating on future Ryzen or Intel chips is not going to help, because who knows how things will turn out. AMD was able to sucker punch Intel with the Athlon 64 chips thirteen years ago, but it took them that long to come up with the current gen Ryzen chips. Will they go into another slump? Who knows... but time will tell. I gave my recommendation based on current price/performance stats which I got here on Tom's, which was far more thorough than the youtube vid you linked. The Intel chips are on sale (competition is good), and this should keep the user gaming high for the next few years.

nonsleeper · Jun 26, 2017

frostedtim :

Toms's price/performance excludes the costs of a Z mothebroard and the cooler for overclocking. The 7700k is a bit faster in gaming when CPU bound only(ie. with a 1080ti in 1080p). However, even then the difference is about 10% and it is far less in games that were released after 2016 than the older games. The tradeoff is between 5-10% more fps in 100fps+ range(when CPU bound) with 7700k and 60% better muticore performance in Ryzen.

I'd say it would be worth pointing out that the reviews tha show the 7700k ahead all assume a CPU limited scenario, using a 1080ti in 1080p and get a few more fps in the range of 100+fps. If you prefer to pay more for this 10% and lose the 60% multicore performance, then go ahead with the 7700k. Otherwise, the Ryzen is a new platform and gives better upgrade path too, you can just swap the CPU when the new generation is out. Intel is changing platform, so you can't just swap out a 7700k.

What makes Ryzen the clear choice is that the question here is asked about a 60hz monitor, the already imperceptible difference between 7700k and the Ryzen is completely irrelevant on a 60hz monitor. Even on a 144hz monitor you have to be a cyborg to see the difference of 10-20fps when above the 120fps mark.And the difference is also very small or nonexistent on newer games. Get the Ryzen and spend the extra money on a better GPU/RAM/etc.

sizzling · Jun 26, 2017

Agree at 60Hz/fps the 2 CPU's will perform the same. A 1600 would be more than enough for that.

frostedtim · Jun 26, 2017

I stand by my recommendation. Ive built machines based on both platforms. Im not a fanboy of either Intel or AMD. AMD's upgrade path is not as simple as is being stated. And if you keep harping on multi-core, which I actually said, if you are doing something other than gaming, then that would be the way to go. But the original scenario was for gaming. How software will handle both AMD and Intel multicore going forward is purely speculative and developers dont always do it the same.

Ryzen does not overclock like Intel does right now. Ryzen has some issues with RAM over certain clock speeds and will even downclock RAM to put it in a compatible frequency. Ryzen is still playing catch-up for software optimizations with game developers. Ryzen is good, but not perfect.

Also, Im not wasting my time with the FPS issue, because that is more a GPU issue than a CPU issue in this regard.

And finally, as I keep saying, the Intel CPU's and Motherboards are on sale. There are some great combo deals if you bother to shop around, and you can find a decent cooler and still come in under the price of a Ryzen CPU/motherboard combo. You just need to actually take the time to look.

I do this for a living. Im not some armchair enthusiast that will watch a youtube vid and then take it as gospel, I actually research this stuff and have to source and deploy these things regularly.

In 3-4 years time, if the intended user wants to upgrade to a new system, both AMD and Intel will have a new generation of hardware on the market again. AMD will be on the AM4+ or maybe even AM5. Most people do not upgrade their computers in less than this time unless something catastrophic happens or there is a big tech leapfrog and there is something trendy that takes advantage of it, like VR is doing today.

mcle · Jun 26, 2017

thank you everyone for your input. i'll tell my friend about your opinions. he's getting a store to build it for him... don't ask me why, so he won't get any combo deals. hopefully either way he doesn't find himself struggling to play games in a few years

frostedtim · Jun 26, 2017

mcle :

Nothing wrong with a store built system. Might even be the better choice financially, and it can be assembled and tested before he even takes possession of it. And overall, it may be the more sane choice instead of dealing with a bunch of nerds over the internet. Yeah I said it... lol!

mcle · Jun 26, 2017

haha nerds... nooooo never

teknobug · Jun 26, 2017

You can go either way, the Ryzen's hasn't reached its potential yet and are already ~10-15% within Intel's in games. Go with whatever is a better deal in Australia. Besides, the AM4 is going to be around for a while while Kaby Lake may be the last generation for this particular socket.

Faike · Jun 26, 2017

Like everyone already says (and I keep having to discuss with friends updating) it's kinda like a.. will Ryzen deliver as it keeps upgrading or will the i7 7700k hold it's own?

Literally everyone has different opinions on this, everyone can link different stuff. I recommended to my friend to get a 7700k instead of a Ryzen for the same reasons everyone listed here. They're still throwing optimizations at the Ryzen pretty constantly but the 7700k has been proven to be a good processor for a while now. Seems more reliable. You know what you're getting. Amd puts a lot of money into research for it's processors right now per year and it's still playing a bit of catch up to intel and I have no doubt it will keep optimizing itself but people seem more comfortable with the intel 7700k series. Also less likely to have issues and what not as it's been out for so long and tested quite a bit.

As someone who heard reviews from lotsa gamers who went both ways upgrading, I picked a ryzen build for my upgrade because I'm still happy with AMD for my last processor and I play with people who have 7700ks and the same GPU as me and I'm still on my older AMD fx series and I get pretty similar performance to them. But everyone has had different experiences.

Mike3k24 · Jun 26, 2017

@frostedtim No I get your recommendations and such, but you claimed Zen 2 & 3 will be worse than the 7700k for gaming, if Ryzen is currently within 5-10% for gaming behind the 7700k, it doesn't make sense how the future cpus would perform worse than that.

teknobug · Jun 26, 2017

Mike3k24 :

Ryzen 2 & 3 will most likely have dual and quad core, Ryzen 5 1600/X has 6 cores, Ryzen 7 has 8 cores which are closer to 7700's performance

mdd1963 · Jun 26, 2017

So you'd buy a slower gaming cpu now, and toss it/hope to sell it in 18 months when an R5 is (maybe) available that will actually match a 7700K in gaming?

frostedtim · Jun 26, 2017

The OP and his friend are moving on, the user is going to buy a shop built machine which may not include any of the CPU's discussed here. I gave my recommendation and wish him many years of happy gaming no matter what he gets. My whole goal was to help out a gamer in need, not get into a nerd battle with any fanboys. I keep seeing the same arguments in other threads and its exhausting. I am moving on too, so good luck and happy gaming to you all!

Mike3k24 · Jun 26, 2017

Frostedtim, The current Ryzen line will have the processors you spoke of before, will bring (likely duel core 4thread, 4c4t) in its R3 line. Zen+ will be the refresh of the current Ryzen line. Ryzen 2 and 3 is going to be its 7nm architecture https://www.google.com/amp/wccftech.com/amd-zen-2-zen-3-7nm-cpu-architecture-details/amp/

go 7700k for gaming or get 1700 and upgrade to its new CPUs as AM4 will last till 2020

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