Low performance on almost any game with a more than capable build.

Kristopher Fronjian · Jul 4, 2017

I can't pinpoint the problem that is causing me to have such bad performance in games so here I am looking for some insight.

examples of lag:
WoW is choppy and fulctuates from 40-60 ping even on very low settings
Black Desert FPS fluctuates from 50-60 frames
Blade and Soul gives me 30-40 frames even on very low settings

my build:
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/y6mXVn#sthash.6ubpEan5.dpuf
here is my current specs:

Code:

Processor
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4790K CPU @ 4.00GHz
Manufacturer Intel
Speed 4.0 GHz
Number of Cores 4
CPU ID BFEBFBFF000306C3
Family 06
Model 3C
Stepping 3
Revision
Memory
RAM 16 GB

Video Card
Video Card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080
Manufacturer NVIDIA
Chipset GeForce GTX 1080
Dedicated Memory 8.0 GB
Total Memory 8192 MB
Pixel Shader Version 5.1
Vertex Shader Version 5.1
Hardware T & L Yes
Vendor ID 10DE
Device 1B80
Plug and Play ID VEN_10DE&DEV_1B80&SUBSYS_62863842&REV_A1
Driver Version 21.21.13.7660
Operating System
Operating System Microsoft Windows 8.1 (build 9600), 64-bit
Service Pack 0
Size 64-bit
Edition
Version 6.3.9600
Locale 0409

BIOS
BIOS BIOS Date: 11/11/15 11:55:04 Ver: 28.01
Version American Megatrends Inc. 2801
Manufacturer American Megatrends Inc.
Date 11/11/15

my userbenchmark report:
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/4197728

Heaven Benchmark:
https://i.imgur.com/Q6a7u70.png

Prime95 CPU stress test:
All tests came back fine, CPU appears healthy.

Temps:
seem okay,
GPU 50c resting, 60-70
CPU stays around 50-60c in and out of games

Something that tells me it might be the motherboard:

2 ram slots on my motherboard are defective and don't recognize ram sticks, so I have 2 8gb ram sticks in opposite slots so they are not dual. I don't know if this is the problem though or it's the motherboard as a whole.

--

If you guys need any additional info I can supply it, just let me know.

James Mason · Jul 5, 2017

Well... It does sound like something is wrong with the mobo, if it can't load and unload ram properly that would choppiness.
But that low FPS also makes me think you have the video cables plugged into the motherboard and not the GPU.
Because the 4790k could get that FPS on it's integrated graphics.
Your temps are pretty high actually, 50c on idle isn't good, and 60c on idle definitely isnt.
Also your spec list is kinda useless, you just opened DXdiag, which includes some info, but leaves out most of the important stuff, why don't you research what you actually have in there and report back.

Danra · Jul 5, 2017

Do the free things first.
1.) Open Task Manager, click on the Performance tab and see if the CPU is being used a lot [high % when idle, for example]. If so, check what program is causing the problem - you may have a virus.

2.) What program are you using to check temperatures and GPU usage? Download a free program like CPUID HWmonitor or HWiNFO 64. MSI Afterburner uses a nice graph to display data - and it is free.

Link to a video of a computer performing poorly. This may be what you need to do, however, you have already mentioned a hardware problem with your motherboard [possibly a controller].

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTmIBr1dpfM&t=503s

Kristopher Fronjian · Jul 5, 2017

Kristopher Fronjian · Jul 5, 2017

James Mason :

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/y6mXVn#sthash.6ubpEan5.dpuf
Is the contents of my PC

also, it recognizes the GPU source as my gtx 1080 in games and whatnot, so that can't be a video cable issue, right?

Kristopher Fronjian · Jul 5, 2017

Danra :

My PC is free of any virus and I used MSI afterburner as well as RealTemp to moniter GPU and CPU.

Danra · Jul 5, 2017

Thank you Kristopher,

Did you watch the video?

Kristopher Fronjian · Jul 5, 2017

Danra :

I did, accordiing to him a reset of Bios settings fixed his problem? The thing is he knows the problem was his CPU, but in my case I don't know what's exactly causing my issue.

photonboy · Jul 5, 2017

1) don't use online games. that complicates things.

2) Yes, your memory bandwidth is quite low. The amount will vary, but you would gain over 20% in some games though many would have minor improvements. (I didn't pull that out of my ass. I looked at Gamers Nexus then extrapolated for "800MHz" which is what he effectively has compared to a Dual-Channel 1600Mhz running properly. Some gains above 1600Mhz but drop off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AOndRffRLY&t=517s

*The stuttering however increases. Call it 0.1% and 1% lows if you will but many games become a bit less smooth with the lower bandwidth. More important than the average FPS.

3) I could not repeat the HEAVEN benchmark. Not enough info as you had custom settings, though it obviously ran on your GTX1080 looking at my rough test results (133FPS on my GTX1080 so you had other things disabled that I had on)

4) So.. thus far, I only see lack of memory bandwidth as your issue but again I've got NOTHING that's actually repeatable to test. I will post some of my benchmarks as my system should be very, very close (though with no memory bandwidth issue).

I'll post this then make a benchmark list below you can try.

photonboy · Jul 5, 2017

You need a 2560x1440 monitor (or 4K with game set to 2560x1440) to test. NVidia has a scaling option too. In the NVidia Control Panel I think if you enable "1.78x" you'll get a 2560x1440 scaling option if your monitor is 1920x1080. If so, do that for the tests and the EXACT same settings.

Hopefully a couple of these are an option, though I'm pretty convinced it's mainly a memory bandwidth issue and frankly you should RMA the board. Hassle, yes.

*If RMA'ing follow proper procedure, but inquire if there's any way to speed up the process such as cross-shipping (they ship before getting the board).

1. Unigine Valley
-DX11, Ultra, x8AA, full screen, 2560x1440

GTX1080
- 68.4FPS avg
- 2863
- 32.7fps low
- 140.3fps high

2. 3DMARK Time Spy

GTX1080
6813
graphics 7451
CPU 4590

3. Metro LL Redux

GTX1080
49.24fps avg
13fps min

4. Sleeping Dogs

GTX1080
97fps avg
55.9fps min

5. Bioshock Ultimate
- ULTRA, 2560x1440

GTX1080
166.53avg

6. Hitman Absolution
- 2560x1440, 8xMSAA, max quality

GTX1080
54fps min
65fps avg

7. Batman Arkham Origins
- 2560x1440, max settings

GTX1080
67fps low
135fps avg

8. DMC4 Special Ed
- 2560x1440, max

GTX1080
S1 183fps
S2 169.3fps
S3 206.4fps
S4 140.6fps

9. Lost Planet 2
- 2560x1440, max etc
- TEST 1, Scene 1

GTX1080
231.1fps

10. Mafia II
- 2560x1440, max

GTX1080
76.5fps avg (huh? CPU bottleneck or PhysX bottleneck?)... wrong results?

Kristopher Fronjian · Jul 5, 2017

photonboy :

I can run more benchmark tests, but the thing is with this current set up I should be getting a much greater amount of performance than I'm currently getting, even a 20% increase wouldn't make sense in my case because I should be having a much greater performance.

photonboy · Jul 5, 2017

Okay,
So it sounds like you've had this system for a WHILE now then suddenly have bad performance?

Or did you add the GTX1080 to an existing system?

What if anything changed?

*At this point, my main recommend is to do this:
a) find a cheap 60GB+ SSD or HDD
b) shut down, and unhook all drives
c) install the new/used drive and put W10 64-bit on it (because you can get a copy useful for I assume 30-days from a link I'll provide below)
d) install the NVidia drivers
e) very Microsoft Updates is done, then continue
f) Install only what you need to verify things are working properly. (if so, it's a software issue. If not, it's a hardware issue.)

W10 Creating install media:
http://www.thewindowsclub.com/windows-10-media-creation-tool-create-installation-media-upgrade

easiest is:
a) stick in 8GB USB stick
b) follow instructions to download and burn W10 64-bit to it
c) shut down, then only target HDD/SSD attached
d) install (skip key check)...

photonboy · Jul 5, 2017

Here's some random other things to try:

1) POWER SETTINGS:
- turn PCIe link-state off. (can throttle the PCIe bus)

2) run DDU to remove NVidia drivers, then reinstall them:
http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/display-driver-uninstaller-download.html

choose "recommended" method which should go in safe, then reboot.. easy.

3) remove any graphics related software besides drivers like MSI Afterburner etc, especially if you used it to overclock the GPU (in fact, do that before DDU), as sometimes you can force a protection mode that keeps the frequency really low.

4) *In fact, if still stuck, use MSI Afterburner or whatever to monitor the GPU frequency. I think mine gets up to about 2000MHz, but you should be over 1800MHz when gaming. It will vary by temperature etc.

Kristopher Fronjian · Jul 5, 2017

photonboy :

I had been running this system with a 770 up until January when I switched to the 1080 and noticed 0 performance increases whatsoever, maybe even worse performance. I have tried several clean installs on this PC so I don't think it would be a software issue at this point.

photonboy · Jul 5, 2017

*Okay, the GTX770 upgrade to GTX1080 = no benefit would have saved me so much time.

Um...
Frankly that doesn't make sense to me. I'm stumped at this point. I'm going to run the "UserBenchmark" and see how I compare though.

**Let me say this clearly though:
1. Run any tool to monitor GPU frequency
2. If it's high in game (i.e. 95% ish) then the game or benchmark should be good at least in terms of average FPS
3. If it's low then something's throttling the GPU (either the CPU, or the card is being forced to a lower frequency)

That's what we need to figure out. Frankly, if the GPU frequency is high (over 1900MHz in benchmark) I can't imagine how there is a problem. So.. huh.

Okay, must run benchmark.

Kristopher Fronjian · Jul 5, 2017

photonboy :

Ok, so for example during Black Desert Online MSI burner is showing an average of 35-40/100 usage of the GPU, but this game is not very GPU intensive anyway, and CPU usage is also very low (15-30 across all the cores)

Do you reccomend me test a specific game and or monitoring software that would give better information?

TMTOWTSAC · Jul 5, 2017

Have you tried running just 1 RAM stick, and comparing the performance in each slot?

photonboy · Jul 5, 2017

Okay, I have my results literally side-by-side with yours.

*My CPU should be almost EXACTLY the same performance. It's an i7-3770K but it ran a solid 4.5GHz for the test and yours 4.2GHz average. My higher frequency compensates almost exactly for the slightly higher performance per core your newer CPU has.

But... my results compared to yours:

1) CPU quad-core-> 24% faster

2) GTX1080-> 2.6% (insignificant)

3) System memory->
a) multi-core: 291% faster
b) Single-core: 261% faster

Summary:
Based SOLELY on these tests, the only difference is your much lower memory bandwidth. That causes the slightly lower CPU performance, as it's running 4.2GHz but is actually waiting some of the time.

These don't directly translate to gaming scores. As I've said in terms of FPS (not smoothness) it can vary from roughly 0% to 20% (ish) gains in performance to have no memory bottleneck due to low bandwidth.

So...
a) apparently not a software issue
b) CPU seems fine
c) graphics card seems fine
d) should not be related to SSD/HDD hardware
e) Memory is PART or ALL of the problem (thus apparently it's the motherboards fault)

I can't think of any other reason to explain your issues. It doesn't seem to explain your apparently far lower FPS scores, but I have no explanation for that beyond the motherboard having some other issue that's somehow kicking in and throttling everything but frankly I have no idea what that could be (beyond the PCIe link-state which you can just set off if worried).

Kristopher Fronjian · Jul 5, 2017

TMTOWTSAC :

I haven't because I would assume 2 sticks in inefficient slots can't be worse than 1

TMTOWTSAC · Jul 5, 2017

Kristopher Fronjian :

If it turns out that the memory is faulty, it really can.

Edit: If it turns out that just one of the sticks is faulty, then it really can. Or just one slot.

Kristopher Fronjian · Jul 5, 2017

photonboy :

Okay, I have my results literally side-by-side with yours.

*My CPU should be almost EXACTLY the same performance. It's an i7-3770K but it ran a solid 4.5GHz for the test and yours 4.2GHz average. My higher frequency compensates almost exactly for the slightly higher performance per core your newer CPU has.

But... my results compared to yours:

1) CPU quad-core-> 24% faster

2) GTX1080-> 2.6% (insignificant)

3) System memory->
a) multi-core: 291% faster
b) Single-core: 261% faster

Summary:
Based SOLELY on these tests, the only difference is your much lower memory bandwidth. That causes the slightly lower CPU performance, as it's running 4.2GHz but is actually waiting some of the time.

These don't directly translate to gaming scores. As I've said in terms of FPS (not smoothness) it can vary from roughly 0% to 20% (ish) gains in performance to have no memory bottleneck due to low bandwidth.

So...
a) apparently not a software issue
b) CPU seems fine
c) graphics card seems fine
d) should not be related to SSD/HDD hardware
e) Memory is PART or ALL of the problem (thus apparently it's the motherboards fault)

I can't think of any other reason to explain your issues. It doesn't seem to explain your apparently far lower FPS scores, but I have no explanation for that beyond the motherboard having some other issue that's somehow kicking in and throttling everything but frankly I have no idea what that could be (beyond the PCIe link-state which you can just set off if worried).

Hmm, do you think it is the memory then? Would it make that big of difference where even WoW is choppy?

Do you have any suggestions for me? Should I try replacing my MB completely?

Kristopher Fronjian · Jul 5, 2017

TMTOWTSAC :

Kristopher Fronjian :

If it turns out that the memory is faulty, it really can.

Edit: If it turns out that just one of the sticks is faulty, then it really can. Or just one slot.

The sticks are really new so I doubt its that, but they aren't on optimal slots.

TMTOWTSAC · Jul 5, 2017

I would probably start by trying 1 stick alone in your first slot, and do a quick benchmark. Then swap in the second stick and benchmark it again to see if it's the same. Then try another slot, in particular one of the ones you've previously identified as faulty.

James Mason · Jul 5, 2017

After those windows re-installs, did you install things like your motherboard chipset drivers?
Did you install all the drivers at once without restarting the system inbetween to save time?
How old is that HDD?
Which memory slots are your ram sticks in?

Since you should try testing the ram sticks individually anyways, why not also test those other memory slots.

photonboy · Jul 5, 2017

Hey,
1) The FIRST thing I'd do is the W10 install to a blank 60GB+ HDD/SSD (whatever cheap drive you can get or have laying around). As per my comment ABOVE somewhere
- should be NO NEED for drivers other than NVidia
- again, no other drives (hdd/ssd) installed (when shut down, just remove the SATA data and power cables from the rear of each drive)

2) I would replace the MOTHERBOARD regardless of the above results as you are losing performance.
- verify the warranty (should be 3 years from manufacturer or purchase date)
- if no warranty go to PCPARTPICKER to investigate boards

Examples:
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/LWZ2FT/asus-motherboard-z97ausb31
or
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/bzbp99/asrock-motherboard-z97pro4

3) Pick some benchmarks that are fully repeatable so you can check values now and later. I recommend:
a) Unigine Valley (1920x1080, all else max)
b) game benchmarks like Metro series (just use 1920x1080 and everything else to max to keep it simple)

4) Feel free to PM me if need be, or start a new thread and link me to it. If you want I'll stay with your issue until it's solved but I can only do so much from here.

Low performance on almost any game with a more than capable build.

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Reputable

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