Is this build still good, and your opinions? v2.0

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loonybin0

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Okay, so it's been a month since I posted this thread, and even though in that thread I said I would begin ordering the parts within a few days, life interrupted and that just didn't happen. I'm coming back to the table now with the hope that I can actually get this going again before I am interrupted any further.

In a way, though, I'm actually glad I waited because some new options have opened up that weren't available/I didn't know about a month ago that have caused me to make some changes.

Without further ado, here is my NEW list:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i7-7800X 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($388.89 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: NZXT - Kraken X61 106.1 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($119.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI - X299 GAMING M7 ACK ATX LGA2066 Motherboard ($398.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: CORSAIR Vengeance RGB 64GB (8 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3000 (PC4 24000) Desktop Memory ($634.99) (link to Newegg page)
Storage: Samsung - 960 Pro 1TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($579.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Toshiba - X300 5TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($144.74 @ Other World Computing)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1070 8GB SC GAMING ACX 3.0 Black Edition Video Card (2-Way SLI) (Purchased For $399.99)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1070 8GB SC GAMING ACX 3.0 Black Edition Video Card (2-Way SLI) (Purchased For $399.99)
Case: Fractal Design - Arc Midi R2 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For $139.99)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - PRIME Titanium 850W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($178.89 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG 16x WH16NS40 Internal Blu-ray Writer Bundle with 1 Pack M-DISC BD and Cable Accessories (Supports CD DVD BD BDXL MDISC) ($74.99) (link to Amazon page)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit (Purchased For $100.00)
Software: Microsoft - Office 365 Home (1 Year Subscription) Software ($99.95 @ Dell Small Business)
Other: EVGA PRO SLI Bridge HB, 2 Slot Spacing (100-2W-0027-LR) (Purchased For $32.00)
Total: $3693.39
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-07-03 15:35 EDT-0400, edited by me
(Note: these retailers are what PCPP chose)

The major difference is that I've switched to the latest Intel chipset, X299, that I think was made to go with the brand new Core i9 CPUs recently released. This means I also switched to the Core i7 X-series (this one having 6 hyperthreaded cores) and can now divide my RAM into 8x8GB sticks. The other big change is that I dropped the 27" 1440p 165Hz screen on my previous list - although my current monitor is showing some signs of age, I am thinking that I will eventually go for some kind of VR setup, so I will hold off on buying any new display for now.

Since I know from my previous discussions about this that someone is going to want to bring it up, I will go ahead and say that I know 64GB RAM seems excessive and one GTX 1080 would have been better than two 1070s, but those are my preferences for this build and so are probably not going to change. I am also set on having a 1TB SSD for my main drive.

My main questions are these:

    ■ I was thinking about using the liquid cooler as a replacement for the main fan on the front panel of the case. Does anyone think this is a bad idea? Would it be better somewhere else?
    ■ PCPartPicker indicates that the liquid cooler is not compatible with my case due to its size. When I first picked out the case and cooler many months ago, I did my own measurements based on the specs that I could find for each, and there didn't seem to be a problem. But that was long enough ago, I can't be certain that I took all the relevant parts (mobo, GPUs, etc.) into consideration. Does anyone have a sense of whether or not there would be a space issue?
    ■ I do have a heatsink on the CPU of my current machine, but I was not the one who installed it. To install this one, do I need to get extra thermal compound or anything to make sure the cooler is working as it should?
    ■ The SLI bridge I got is two slots wide (~40mm). I was thinking that having some space between the GPUs would allow more airflow to run cooler. Am I mistaken?


I appreciate your feedback/suggestions, it doesn't have to address these questions. Thanks.
 
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Ok. I am retracting my previous assertion about definitely getting the 1800X. I see that it isn't worth that much more.

I also checked the speed/voltage of a slightly faster Corsair RAM and it matches others that were on the mobo QVL (though for smaller modules)

So, here's what I think is the final list:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1700X 3.4GHz 8-Core Processor ($331.47 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Corsair - H100i v2 70.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($109.78 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock - Fatal1ty X370 Professional Gaming ATX AM4 Motherboard ($235.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: CORSAIR Vengeance RGB 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM...
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loonybin0

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  • ■ The Arc Midi is actually pretty large inside... I guess I hadn't thought that there'd be problems with fitting the GPUs in, particularly because I think I'll be able to go without the drive cages at the front. I'm more concerned about the liquid cooler fitting in the front.
    ■ The CPU and mobo aren't that much different in price...? And since the mobo connects everything together and provides the BIOS, I feel like that wouldn't be something to cheap out on...?
    ■ The RAM is expensive, that's certainly true. But comparing with others I saw, the $/GB isn't horrible (+ RGB LEDs!). I admit, the expense does make 32GB seem like a reasonable alternative. I really don't want memory limits to ever be an issue (can be with my current machine @ 16GB), but it's something I am considering.
Thanks for the feedback.
 
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Isokolon

Isokolon

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Don't get me wrong 2 GPUs will fit in there.
Personally I like a bigger case though for better airflow with a setup like that. 2 cards = twice the heat.

That's the thing. The board is way too expensive. Of course one shouldn't buy the cheapest board there is. But a 400$ board is hardly worth it. A 250$ board will do easily.
Overall value is highly off when you can build a Ryzen 7 build at the same clock speeds for way less money.

The question is what you need 64GB RAM for.
Unless you're in professional video works I can't really imagine a scenario where 32GB RAM would be too little right now. Might stand to be corrected there though.
 
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loonybin0

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Think you might be able to provide a link to such a build?

For the RAM, like I said, I am debating that.

And I know this is going to sound pretty dumb, but a big part of the reason I chose that board is because I thought it would look cool in the window of my case. I like the look with the RGB LEDs. And maybe I'm just not looking in the right places, but I can find only maybe a dozen or so boards for X299, so it's not a huge selection.

This build is excessive in some ways but my intention for this machine though is to be pretty future-proof. It's unlikely that I am going to get a new computer in fewer than 5 years, and I want to remain on the higher end of the performance spectrum for as long as possible with this one.

But I would love to see a cheaper, comparable build, if there are any.
 
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Isokolon

Isokolon

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X299 is an enthusiast platform, mostly for professional applications
also it's relatively new
overall there are not so many boards as there's simply not a lot of demand

I'd suggest something like that maybe. saves 400$.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1700X 3.4GHz 8-Core Processor ($329.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Corsair - H105 73.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($93.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - GA-AX370-GAMING 5 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($188.48 @ OutletPC)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance RGB 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($537.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 960 Pro 1TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($579.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Toshiba - X300 5TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($146.34 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1070 8GB SC GAMING ACX 3.0 Black Edition Video Card (2-Way SLI) (Purchased For $399.99)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1070 8GB SC GAMING ACX 3.0 Black Edition Video Card (2-Way SLI) (Purchased For $399.99)
Case: Fractal Design - Arc Midi R2 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For $139.99)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - Platinum 860W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($139.49 @ SuperBiiz)
Optical Drive: LG - WH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($0.00)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit (Purchased For $100.00)
Software: Microsoft - Office 365 Home (1 Year Subscription) Software ($99.95 @ Dell Small Business)
Other: EVGA PRO SLI Bridge HB, 2 Slot Spacing (100-2W-0027-LR) (Purchased For $32.00)
Other: LG 16x WH16NS40 Internal Blu-ray Writer Bundle with 1 Pack M-DISC BD and Cable Accessories (Supports CD DVD BD BDXL MDISC) ($74.99)
Total: $3263.18
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-07-09 17:09 EDT-0400
 
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loonybin0

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Ok, thanks for taking the time to make that list.

The thing is though, according to this site, the Ryzen 7 1700X is more on par with the Core i7 7700 (not 7700K) in terms of real world performance while still being a tad more expensive. According to the same site, the top performing Ryzen CPU comes in 7th place, being beaten out by the i7 7700K in third place (and also ~$100 more expensive than the i7). By changing out the Ryzen build you provide with an Intel one that is, I think, comparable in terms of performance, I get this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i7-7700 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor ($289.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Corsair - H105 73.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($93.99 @ Newegg)*
Motherboard: Gigabyte - GA-Z270X-Gaming 5 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($179.33 @ OutletPC)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance RGB 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($537.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 960 Pro 1TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($579.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Toshiba - X300 5TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($146.34 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1070 8GB SC GAMING ACX 3.0 Black Edition Video Card (2-Way SLI) (Purchased For $399.99)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1070 8GB SC GAMING ACX 3.0 Black Edition Video Card (2-Way SLI) (Purchased For $399.99)
Case: Fractal Design - Arc Midi R2 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For $139.99)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - Platinum 860W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($139.49 @ SuperBiiz)
Optical Drive: LG - WH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($0.00)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit (Purchased For $100.00)
Software: Microsoft - Office 365 Home (1 Year Subscription) Software ($99.95 @ Dell Small Business)
Other: EVGA PRO SLI Bridge HB, 2 Slot Spacing (100-2W-0027-LR) (Purchased For $32.00)
Other: LG 16x WH16NS40 Internal Blu-ray Writer Bundle with 1 Pack M-DISC BD and Cable Accessories (Supports CD DVD BD BDXL MDISC) ($74.99)
Total: $3214.03
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-07-09 22:11 EDT-0400
*I actually did find a 'like new' version of my pick, the NZXT Kraken, which is 280mm vs 240mm, on Amazon for about $104.

You'll notice the $50 price difference (and yes, that's little enough that it could be just momentary price differences for normally equally priced components).

But, aside from that, the Ryzen 7 1700X seems to actually be in a lower performance bracket than I had slated even for my initial build from my previous post. As I said above, my goal is to get something future-proof, and if that requires spending extra for higher end components, then so be it.

I will however definitely go for your pick for RAM which saves about $100.
 
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Isokolon

Isokolon

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Well you gotta read benchmarks right.

The reason they come out levelled is due to two things:
- older software
- different strengths

Older software isn't as multi-threaded as newer software.
If you roam the forums, a year ago general consense was that an i5 is more than enough for gaming and you don't need an i7.
Things have changed, newer software supports multi-threading better and can use more than 4 threads and more than 2 cores.

The i7 has superior single core performance. So each core of the i7 can handle more heavy work than the Ryzen's cores can.
Difference is: a Ryzen 1700 has twice the cores of an i7.

So why do they come out as 'same speed' when benchmarking?
The i7 gets you the highest achievable FPS in games today.
This is due to the fact that most games up to now have been optimised for 3-4 cores or 6-8 threads, simply because that was the maximum anybody had at home.
Over the last year this changed for some AAA titles.
For example BF1 where 6cores and 8cores show improvements over an i7 quadcore like the 7700k.
Even the old FX8350, which is often outmatched by a modern Pentium, is suddenly faster than an i5 in this game.
BF1 isn't the only game, there are more and more games who can use and like to use more than 4 cores.
ATM the i7 performs best in games and is the logical (and only?) choice for gaming above 120fps
However if you're on a 60-100Hz screen, it doesn't matter whether you're getting 110 or 150 FPS since you can't display more than 60-100 anyway.

This is where Ryzen comes in. It gets you the needed FPS, while providing you with additional cores and threads that will come handy in the future.
Furthermore those cores will hold the FPS count more steady right now.
When benchmarking you usually shut down everything else but the game for precise results.
Most people don't do this though.
I for once when gaming usually got my browser with 20 tabs open, my firewall and antivirus running in the background, alongside Skype, Dropbox, my mainboard suite, Spotify app running, sometimes watching a movie, zipping/unzipping archives, using a web application blablablah. This puts additional load on your CPU. So if the game uses 4 cores you got additional cores for all that stuff left, while a quadcore has to do this simultaneously on the same cores this resulting in FPS drops when there aren't enough resources left.


TL; DR:
Unless you're looking into 144Hz gaming I tend to recommend Ryzen CPUs as they just get you more for your money (and beat Intel in everything besides gaming by a large margin).
That said the i7 is a great CPU, I'm running one myself (6700k)
 
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loonybin0

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Hmm... I see this is a tougher choice than I had initially believed. I guess I have been biased towards Intel CPUs just because I've always used them - I can't think of a single computer I've owned in the last 15 years or so that I know wasn't running an Intel processor (excluding mobile devices and consoles and such). But that certainly doesn't mean it isn't time for a change.

So right now I am running an i5 3570K (4 cores, 3.4GHz) and I have run into some cases where I've hit considerable CPU bottleneck (actually just the other day I noticed some sluggishness because a few of my tabs in chrome were eating up ~20-25% CPU on top of running Don't Starve and AVG updating or something). I would obviously like to avoid having that problem with my new machine.

I guess some of the deciding factor might be figuring out which way processors and software are headed? If transistors are approaching physical limits for size, then I believe performance increases would have to come from adding cores rather than improving them. This would push the software industry to optimize for that, improving performance for something like Ryzen.

Well anyway, I'll have to give this more thought. You've been very helpful and I appreciate it. Once I decide, I'll post an updated list.
 
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loonybin0

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Okay, so here we go one more (hopefully last) time:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1800X 3.6GHz 8-Core Processor ($419.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Corsair - H100i v2 70.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($109.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock - Fatal1ty X370 Professional Gaming ATX AM4 Motherboard ($235.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance RGB 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($537.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 960 Pro 1TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($579.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Toshiba - X300 5TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($146.34 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1070 8GB SC GAMING ACX 3.0 Black Edition Video Card (2-Way SLI) (Purchased For $399.99)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1070 8GB SC GAMING ACX 3.0 Black Edition Video Card (2-Way SLI) (Purchased For $399.99)
Case: Fractal Design - Arc Midi R2 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For $139.99)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - Platinum 860W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($139.49 @ SuperBiiz)
Optical Drive: LG 16x WH16NS40 Internal Blu-ray Writer Bundle with 1 Pack M-DISC BD and Cable Accessories (Supports CD DVD BD BDXL MDISC) ($74.99)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit (Purchased For $100.00)
Software: Microsoft - Office 365 Home (1 Year Subscription) Software ($99.95 @ Dell Small Business)
Other: EVGA PRO SLI Bridge HB, 2 Slot Spacing (100-2W-0027-LR) (Purchased For $32.00)
Other: AM4-AMD Retention Bracket Kit for Hydro Series Coolers (Purchased For $5.99)
Total: $3422.68
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-07-12 15:15 EDT-0400

As you can see, you've swayed me to the Ryzen, just not the one you picked. And yes, I know that the value for money for both the CPU and mobo is not great. Your picks of the 1700X and the Gigabyte board would save me almost $200, and I'd probably still get nearly the same performance 99.999% of the time. It's probably a real waste of money to get the 1800X and the Fatal1ty board instead. But short of someone saying "OMG, THEY'LL MAKE YOUR COMPUTER EXPLODE AND BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN!" I'm going to get them anyway.

The only other change is the liquid cooler - after looking again at the inside of the case, I decided that, just to be sure I could fit it, 240mm was the way to go. Additionally, several of the Corsair liquid coolers, like this one, can't natively attach to the AM4 socket, so that's what the extra bracket is for.

How does it look?
 
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Isokolon

Isokolon

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does look good.
I wouldn't get the 1800X though. you're paying WAY extra over the 1700X for 200MHz
I mean, if the 200MHz are worth that upgrade price go get it. most 1700X OC to 1800X levels without a problem though.
the savings could be reinvested into faster RAM. Ryzen does like 3000MHz (check the mainboard's qvl list before purchase)

looks good. excessive, but good.
 
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loonybin0

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As I said previously - I know that's true, but it was my objective to have SLI in this machine and both GPUs are already purchased.


I understand, and I've read that elsewhere too. I guess I was thinking that if the 1700X can OC to 1800X speeds, couldn't the 1800X OC to more like i7 7700K speeds? And does faster RAM really make as much a performance difference as a faster CPU?

As I said though, I'm willing to cash out some more for that extra bit of performance since future-proofing is so important to me.
 
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Isokolon

Isokolon

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No. The chip architecture is sealed at around 4GHz. You can't push a chip over 4, maybe 4.1GHz if you win the silicon lottery.
The 1700X might not hit 4GHz, neither is it guaranteed that the 1800X will.
Personally for almost 100$ extra the 200MHz of the 1800X is barely justifiable

But yes, RAM speed does matter with Ryzen.
There's a significant improvement for basically little money.
 
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loonybin0

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Okay, that makes sense.

Hmmm... I also decided to take a look at the QVL for the mobo and, if I only consider RAM from that list, my options as far as high-performance goes are pretty slim. Once you filter the rest out, the highest speed 4x16GB RAMs are only two 2666MHz from Klevv. The thing is, I can't find that RAM anywhere except on Klevv's datasheet, so I don't know anything about it other than that it's supposed to exist.
But, since the highest speed on the list for a 4x16GB set is 2666MHz, am I safe in assuming the board would cap at that speed even if I had faster RAM? So the 2666 Vengeance RGB I have picked would be the fastest the board could handle anyway? It isn't on the mobo's QVL, but if the speed and voltage of the Vengeance matched the one from Klevv (if I ever find it), then there should theoretically be no problems with compatibility, rght?
 
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loonybin0

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Ok. I am retracting my previous assertion about definitely getting the 1800X. I see that it isn't worth that much more.

I also checked the speed/voltage of a slightly faster Corsair RAM and it matches others that were on the mobo QVL (though for smaller modules)

So, here's what I think is the final list:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1700X 3.4GHz 8-Core Processor ($331.47 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Corsair - H100i v2 70.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($109.78 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock - Fatal1ty X370 Professional Gaming ATX AM4 Motherboard ($235.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: CORSAIR Vengeance RGB 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model CMR64GX4M4C3200C16 ($669.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 960 Pro 1TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($579.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Toshiba - X300 5TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($146.34 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1070 8GB SC GAMING ACX 3.0 Black Edition Video Card (2-Way SLI) (Purchased For $399.99)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1070 8GB SC GAMING ACX 3.0 Black Edition Video Card (2-Way SLI) (Purchased For $399.99)
Case: Fractal Design - Arc Midi R2 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For $139.99)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - Platinum 860W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($139.49 @ SuperBiiz)
Optical Drive: LG 16x WH16NS40 Internal Blu-ray Writer Bundle with 1 Pack M-DISC BD and Cable Accessories (Supports CD DVD BD BDXL MDISC) ($74.99)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit (Purchased For $100.00)
Software: Microsoft - Office 365 Home (1 Year Subscription) Software ($99.95 @ Dell Small Business)
Other: EVGA PRO SLI Bridge HB, 2 Slot Spacing (100-2W-0027-LR) (Purchased For $32.00)
Other: Other: AM4-AMD Retention Bracket Kit for Hydro Series Coolers (Purchased For $5.99)
Total: $3465.95
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-07-14 23:16 EDT-0400
 
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