Someone explain to me why Amd cpus are good?

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LilWhiteChris

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I'm so confused.
The i7 7740x on the user bench is scored 101%

The Amd 1800x scored 93%

And the 1700x scored 88%

The 7740x can be clocked to 5ghz
where as out of the box the 1700x is the same ghz as my i7 2600 which is 11 years old, the 1800x only has 0.2ghz more.
I know the 1700x/1800x has more cores but a year ago everyone had 'massive ones' for Ghz now it seems like no one cares. why?

I was hoping to improve games like world of warcraft since it's heavily cpu based but i feel like i won't notice the difference with the amd cpus at least...
(note i didn't really want to oc, even without boosting the i7 base is 4.5ghz which would be a big improvement over my 2600 3.4ghz)
 
Solution
synphul
Like others have said, ipc comparisons can't be made between different brands of cpu's and different generations. Clock speed plays a factor in a processor's power but it's not the whole picture. Years ago the mhz/ghz war was on and cpu's were sold solely based on clock speed.

Think of clock speed as the rotation of the pedals on a bicycle and the ipc as the gearing in the back. Go to a low gear and pedal like mad, you're still not going very fast despite your 'clock speed'. If you switch up the gearing at the rear wheel to a higher gear you don't have to pedal so fast and the bicycle goes a lot further/faster down the road, you're getting more accomplished.

Older amd's recently like the athlons or fx cpu's lacked ipc. They kept...
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DSzymborski

DSzymborski

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It's because you're looking at it very simply. The 7740x (and most of the high-end Intels) has the single-core speed, which is very important for gaming. But an 1800x does highly threaded applications better than the 7740x, so people with workloads that see a benefit from high core count can choose a CPU that prioritizes their needs better. In any case, you're quibbling over percentages that aren't that big a deal.

Nobody's gone nuts over clock speed since the Pentium 4s. It's only really useful comparing CPUs of the same family. The 1700 *is* more powerful than the i7-2600, a little bit faster in single core, crushing at highly threaded apps. (And the i7-2600 came out in 2011, not 2006).

 
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atomicWAR

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Well for starters you can't just take clock speed and equate performance. Different CPUs have different IPC's (intructions per clock). AMD's Ryzen \IPC is better then your old sandy-bridge set-up. So a clock for clock comparison doesn't work. In gaming at 1080P sky lake vs sandy-bridge the difference is about 20% when clocked the same speed, best case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sx1kLGVAF0

worst case not overclocked your old sandy bridge can beat even kaby lake at stock speeds in some games, check out the games in this one...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11549/the-intel-kaby-lake-x-i7-7740x-and-i5-7640x-review-the-new-single-thread-champion-oc-to-5ghz/11

When you jump to 4K the difference is mute. As seen above as well. Looking at those benches you can see why AMDs Ryzen is getting so much attention. Is it the best gaming CPU, no but it is a very good one. As games get use more threads the trend will only help AMD do better. And in multi-threaded tasks Ryzen kills Intel's offering at the same price point. Yeah it doesn't overclock as far but it it does OC enough to make it a solid value. Add the extra cores and threads...there is a reason Intel has been so nervous and moving up launch dates while increasing core counts.
 
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raisonjohn

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You cannot simply compare cores/threads and clock speeds between different generations/platforms as they all have different IPC (instructions per cycle) and architecture.

Most older AMD CPUs are marketed as 8 core or so, but, is really just an 8 module with less logical cores sharing resources within module that lessens the IPC/work load. This means even if the clock speed is high, the number of instructions that can be completed in the cycle may be less. Thus, even Intel's 7th-gen 2-core would have better performance (more instructions per clock cycle) when compared to such older "beefy" 8-core AMD FX CPUs at the same clock speeds.

The latest AMD Ryzen platform is now a different beast all together and thus able to compete (finally) with Intel's CPU offerings. This is evident on the benchmarks you see today.

Value (i.e., price/performance) is the stronghold of the current AMD Ryzen CPUs over the pricier Intel's. For example, Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 CPUs all have hyperthreading (with more cores and threads) and are unlocked (OC'able) but the Intel's i5's have no hyperthreading (only the i7 does) and only the K version of the i5 and i7 Intel CPU's overclockable while the rest are locked (non-OC'able).

Overclockable AM4-socket motherboards (for Ryzen CPUs) also come in two choices: the more expensive X370 and the less expensive B350, giving AMD Ryzen users with a lot more options to choose from, depending on their needs. For Intel K CPU users, you don't have any other choice but to get a Z270 chipset motherboard for overclocking (as the B250 and H270 are non-OCable).
 
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constantine_99

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here's some simple facts:

intel won on the single core speed -> yes
intel is more expensive -> yes
intel had less cores for consumer's market -> yes
inte's unlocked CPU and Mobo cost us more -> yes
unlocked CPU doesn't come with stock cooler -> yes (though i can still understand bout this part)

so, Ryzen had these advantages:
cheaper
they give u more cores/threads
some version had free stock cooler
their mobo are cheaper

meaning AMD won in terms of price/performance

why AMD CPUs are good? coz they learn from the mistake, and improve it.
intel on the other hand, now got their ass kicked and now starting to stumble around with their unready i9 (many reviewers said that it's hot af, and pricy af than their Ryzen's counterpart [threadripper])
i just hope the coffelake is better priced and offers better performance, if not, i don't see the reason on going to intel anymore :(

CPU intensive games will work well more cores/threads, if u're going to upgrade, get a Ryzen instead
PS: im not a fanboy, i had an intel CPU right now, coz i don't have money to build a whole new rig, but if i had the money, i would've gone to Ryzen ( but if later on coffelake is better, i might reconsider)
 
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Saurabh Harwande

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I would like to add a link which maybe helpful. As you have mentioned warcraft specially. Here you can read about peoples experience for the same with Ryzen.
-----------Link------------
Also, raisonjohn has put up the excellent points as on why Ryzen should now be preferred over intel for new builds. For current products AMD sure has higher performance per dollar in most of scenarios. And it not that behind in games. The things are only going to get better.
 
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synphul

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Like others have said, ipc comparisons can't be made between different brands of cpu's and different generations. Clock speed plays a factor in a processor's power but it's not the whole picture. Years ago the mhz/ghz war was on and cpu's were sold solely based on clock speed.

Think of clock speed as the rotation of the pedals on a bicycle and the ipc as the gearing in the back. Go to a low gear and pedal like mad, you're still not going very fast despite your 'clock speed'. If you switch up the gearing at the rear wheel to a higher gear you don't have to pedal so fast and the bicycle goes a lot further/faster down the road, you're getting more accomplished.

Older amd's recently like the athlons or fx cpu's lacked ipc. They kept pushing clock speed which is why the fx 8320, 8350, 8370, 9590 etc are all basically the same with faster and faster clock speeds. Now that ryzen is out amd has corrected their approach to performance, clock speeds are below fx but ipc has come much closer to competing with intel's higher ipc advantage. They're also incorporating their version of hyper threading and no longer bundling 2 cores as a 'module' which forced the cores to share a lot of resources intel cpu cores got to enjoy independently.

Amd has also focused on higher core/thread count cpu's at fairly low prices compared to intel's alternatives. Cpu's can be used for tons of things from running a browser, calculator to encoding video to playing games to photoshop and just about anything under the sun. All those tasks have different requirements. A really fast 4c/4t cpu is going to suffer compared to an 8c/16t cpu with solid ipc performance in video encoding. In photoshop? A fast 4c/4t cpu with high ipc and high clock speed is going to bury a 20c/40t cpu with decent ipc which has lower clock speed. There's no one size fits all answer which is why there are so many different cpu's.

You probably won't notice much difference on wow, it's not as advanced or modern of a game as others out there. It won't saturate 8c/8t like bf1 multiplayer does. That said, ryzen's ipc is a bit better than your 2nd gen i7, closer to the ipc of haswell/broadwell 4th/5th gen intel. A 6 or 8c cpu from either amd or intel isn't going to give you an advantage in wow, it's just the way the game is. It does use additional threads/cores more than it did when first released but doesn't require a ton of cores/threads. High ipc and high clock speed are still your friends for wow, if you do consider an upgrade consider a newer i5/i7 with an oc to boost it up around 5ghz.

Currently amd ryzen cpu's seem to struggle with breaking 4ghz for the most part. Newer intel cpu's are coming out that are supposed to be 6core i5's and i7's. Hard to believe your current i7 would really be struggling with that game though.
 
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mdd1963

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Pretty sure the 2600 came out in 2010, right? :)

But the 2600 is now matched in gaming by the i3-7350K, for the most part...; it's starting to show it's age, and, it had a helluva run, IMO.

Z67-generation era boards will stay play, of course, but, best not to be hoping for 144 Hz monitors....
 
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atomicWAR

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Matched, hardly IMHO. And yes I have seen reviews that show what your saying. Yeah the i3 7350K can hit some fast peak frame rates that only use 4-8 threads, some of which match the i7 2600 in some games....What is more telling is the minimum and 99 percentiles (even average frame rates can be close as stated as seen in some reviews) are much better. That's where a having more threads/cores with the i7 2600 pulls way ahead. I could see that being your mostly part of your argument but for me that is night and day for in-game experience. The difference between a stuttering mess on occasion or consistently smooth game play. I'd take the older chip any day of the week. High-jack over

As the OP can see AMD is heavily favored do to its excellent performance and cheap price. Yes Intel is still the premuim CPU with slightly better single core IPC but the everything else that is Ryzen trumps Intel at nearly every turn....notice I have an Intel build myself. AMD is again on my list for future platform upgrades after several years of not making it (ie fail-dozer and crap-avator).
 
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LilWhiteChris

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I get what everyone is saying, i'm still undersided though.
I would like to play wow and do abit of video editing stuff nothing fancy,
I also have plans to buy 2 27inch 144hz 1440p monitors.

I'm going to be building from scratch and have a budget if £2500-£3000 so assuming all that i guess most of you guys would go for the 1700x or 1800x?
Or would it be worth simply waiting longer, i assume intel must have something in the pipeline...
 
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atomicWAR

atomicWAR

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Coffee lake with i7 8700K 6C/12T for the high end mainstream i5 8600K 6C/6T but that is sometime this fall to replace the i7 7700K/7600K. If you were build today either Ryzen R5 1600 or better up to the R7 1800X. Or you could go with Intel's HEDT i7 7800X 6C/12T or even i7 7820X 8C/16T CPU.
 
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