Upgradeable $2000 X99 build - please review and advise

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ar1111

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I am building a new PC/workstation for work (2-3 VMs with Windows guest OS), general purpose use, and occasional programming and data crunching. Linux will be the host/primary OS. I'd like it to be future proof with good expandability. It may be turned into a deep learning workstation at some point with 2 GPUs. I'd like it to be as quiet as possible and as reliable as possible. Overclocking is not important to me. Having never built a PC before, I'd appreciate some advice on this build. Are there any issues with this build? Including Linux compatibility issues? Thanks in advance for any advice and/or suggestions.

Approximate Purchase Date: This month

Budget Range: Trying to decide. $1500-$2500 before rebates, depending on features.

System Usage from Most to Least Important: 2-3 virtual machines for work (Guest OS will be Windows XP or Windows 10, host OS will be Linux), heavy web surfing (Google Chrome with ~100 tabs), some programming, possibly some machine learning/deep learning after GPU upgrade, some image processing. All on Linux host. The goal is to have a relatively future-proof system with lots of expandability. I may add 2 GTX 1080 Tis (for deep learning) at a later point. I'd also like the system to be as silent as possible.

Parts Not Required: Speakers, OS

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: newegg.com or amazon.com

Country: USA

Parts Preferences: Chose 2011v3/X99 because it has 40 lanes which can really make a difference when using dual GTX 1080 Ti for deep learning (based on some online reading). Also, price doesn't seem too different from an otherwise similar 1151/Z270 build. I also care about quietness; hence the Noctua CPU cooler, Dark Power Pro 11 power supply, and Fractal Design Define R5 case. Prefer a minimalist look. I actually wanted a 1000W (not 1100W power supply, but the one I want - be quiet! DARK POWER PRO 11 1000W ATX 12V 80 Plus Platinum Modular Power Supply - Silentwings 3 Fan doesn't seem to be available on PCPartPicker.

Build:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i7-6850K 3.6GHz 6-Core Processor ($359.89 @ B&H)
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-U14S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($64.95 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock - X99 Taichi ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($218.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($319.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($339.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Western Digital - Blue 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($65.35 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB FTW GAMING ACX 3.0 Video Card ($173.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design - Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: be quiet! - DARK POWER PRO 11 1100W 80+ Platinum Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($327.69 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Optical Drive: Samsung - SH-224BB DVD/CD Writer ($23.89 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Acer - R240HY bidx 23.8" 1920x1080 60Hz Monitor
Total: $1994.60
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-08-07 23:15 EDT-0400

Overclocking: Probably not. Definitely not, if it takes time and effort under Linux.

SLI or Crossfire: Maybe

Monitor Resolution: Dual or triple 1920x1080

Additional Comments: Understated look, ability to handle heavy browsing loads and data crunching, upgradeability. Willing to pay extra for quietness. At present I want to spend minimal time building/tweaking/troubleshooting/repairing, so want high reliability, probably no overclocking.
PCPartPicker gives a warning about X99 bios needing to be upgraded using another CPU - is that really a problem? I don't have another CPU.
 
Solution
Karadjgne
It's always better to buy just 1 kit. Normally when ppl upgrade by adding 1 stick, you only have to worry about that stick and whether the batches are compatible. The silicon that makes up the ram will have a certain amount of impurities to it. Having ram from the same batch is the best idea, as the impurities match up. With different batches there's a good chance, especially with higher speed ram, that the secondary and tertiary timings that you don't normally see and the impurities in the silicon will create enough of an issue to basically render the ram incompatible, or at least need voltage or timing or system agent adjustments to get them to play nice. 2x separate 4x quad channel just added an exponent to that as there's now 8...
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Lutfij

Lutfij

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You could take a look at this build:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1800X 3.6GHz 8-Core Processor ($419.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: NZXT - Kraken X62 Rev 2 98.2 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($147.20 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Asus - CROSSHAIR VI HERO (WI-FI AC) ATX AM4 Motherboard ($272.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($319.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($339.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Western Digital - Blue 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($65.35 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB FTW GAMING ACX 3.0 Video Card ($173.98 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT - S340 Elite (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - PRIME Titanium 1000W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($258.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Monitor: Acer - R240HY bidx 23.8" 1920x1080 60Hz Monitor
Total: $2088.35
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-08-08 00:51 EDT-0400

And if you're yet thinking of getting the Define R5, you can replace the S340 Elite with this and add that optical drive back in. I'm curious though, why would you need an optical drive? Do you back up your work on discs?

Power wise, you'll be fine to run 2xGTX1080Ti's in SLI.
 
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Lucky_SLS

Lucky_SLS

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PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Threadripper 1950X 3.4GHz 16-Core Processor ($999.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock - X399 Taichi ATX TR4 Motherboard ($333.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LED 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($260.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Intel - Pro 6000p 512GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($189.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Storage: Toshiba - P300 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($74.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design - Define XL R2 (Black Pearl) ATX Full Tower Case ($109.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Corsair - RMx 1000W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($178.49 @ Newegg)
Total: $2148.42
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-08-08 01:34 EDT-0400

Along with this get the fractal design Celsius s36 aio cooler. For gpu, I would suggest the titan x pascal now and later add a graphics acceleration unit like the new Nvidia Tesla k80 or the p100
 
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ar1111

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Thanks for the suggestion. This increases cores from 6 to 8. But it looks like the motherboard only supports dual PCIe 3.0 x8 or single x16 (based on specs on Newegg) - can it support 2 GTX 1080 Tis? Also, it looks like Ryzen 7 supports only 24 lanes. I assume the bump from 6 to 8 cores is for the VMs - will it make a big difference?

Optical drive is for convenience - occasionally I want to watch movies on the computer, some software is cheaper or easier to obtain if you buy on CD instead of USB stick. Admittedly its uses are few and far between.
 
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ar1111

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Thanks. This is a fascinating build. The Threadripper was not on my radar at all, but looks very cool. It seems to be generating a lot of excitement. Is the high number of cores better for VMs?

OTOH I'm a bit leery of being an early adopter - could there be issues that need some time to be ironed out since it looks like it just came out and there are few independent benchmark results? Also, with the price difference vs i7-6850 based system I could add a GTX 1080Ti. K80 is an interesting suggestion but seems very high end - might consider it after more experience with HPC...
 
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Lucky_SLS

Lucky_SLS

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all in all, the treadripper will last u a long while than the 6850 build . u can go for the 12 core version for 800 bucks. the threadripper is essentially two ryzen stiched together in infinity fabric. ryzen already proved its worth in HPC and compute intensive tasks, expect better results with threadripper along with its quad channel memory.
 
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ar1111

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Here's an approximate Threadripper build with other components I like:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Threadripper 1950X 3.4GHz 16-Core Processor ($999.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: NZXT - Kraken X61 106.1 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($126.89 @ B&H)
Motherboard: ASRock - X399 Taichi ATX TR4 Motherboard ($343.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($309.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($174.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital - Blue 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($65.35 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB FTW GAMING ACX 3.0 Video Card ($169.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design - Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: be quiet! - DARK POWER PRO 11 1100W 80+ Platinum Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($327.69 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Optical Drive: Samsung - SH-224BB DVD/CD Writer ($23.89 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Acer - R240HY bidx 23.8" 1920x1080 60Hz Monitor ($129.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $2772.74
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-08-08 19:46 EDT-0400

I can save about $100 using a Celsius S36 cooler and a different 1000W power supply. Still ~$1000 more expensive than the i7-6850K build. If I go down the Ryzen 1950x path, i'd rather spend the extra $200 to get 4 more cores.

What is the reason to prefer the Define XL R2 instead of the Define 5?

Are there any reasons NOT to get the Ryzen 1950x, other than cost? Is it likely to have the memory incompatibility issues other Ryzens had when released or any other issues? I would like to make sure I understand all the implications.
 
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Lucky_SLS

Lucky_SLS

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For your workload, threadripper makes perfect sense. It the other way around. The normal ryzen and 6850k isn't viable now. So is the skylake x i9 cuz of the price point. The 6850k is already at the end of it life with no upgrade options. AMD said it will support am4 till 2020. So it will b the same for tr4 since they both are essentially the same.
There are no memory compatibility issues. But I can't comment on the quad channel performance as it will be new to ryzen.
I just chose the XL R2 cuz it's a full tower and easy to work with. And also a bit cheap than other brand models.
So with that extra bucks you are spending now for threadripper, u will get more cores and a current tech with support till 2020.
I would also advice you to go with Celsius cuz threadripper is a monster of a cpu and requires the best cooling solution. And the s36 does that.
327 for a 1100w isn't worth it. The rmx is almost as silent as the dark power unit.

Edit : in my phone now, damn these auto correct and typos :(
 
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g-unit1111

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Cost is the main issue, as is cooler compatibility. Right now there's very few coolers tested that are compatible with the TR4 socket out of the box. That should change within a month or so as manufacturers get mounting brackets out. For your uses it seems like TR4 would be perfect. I personally wouldn't invest in X99 at this point - it's pretty much a dead platform. If you want the minimalist look, try the new Fractal Design Define C which has the full tempered glass look that is popular these days.
 
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ar1111

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Ah, I see. I don't care about lighting (board will be invisible inside an opaque Define R5) but am getting the Aorus for the same price as the Taichi because of Amazon's combo deal.

Another question. Some sources say memory speed has a significant impact on Threadripper system performance. For example: this, this. A 10% bump in most games (less relevant to me, but may be indicative of other low-thread workloads). Any ideas whether this might matter in practice? Should I go for faster RAM?

I'm convinced to go with this config (much appreciation @Lucky_SLS). The components have started to arrive in the mail. My build is waiting on the release of the Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3, which is made specifically for the Threadripper. I am particular about noise, and the Noctua seems like the best option.
 
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Lucky_SLS

Lucky_SLS

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Memory intensive tasks? Ram speed does affect the performance. And I think u restrict yourself to mainly stock speeds with that noctua. I think even the noctua will be running at full speed to dissipate all the heat if you are overclocking that 16 core beast ;)
 
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ar1111

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So, I have most of the components in for this build - except the Noctua fan, which I ordered direct from Noctua's ebay site.

However, the Gigabyte Aorus 7 X399 motherboard came with 4 rusty screws. These are tiny screws on the socket; similar to this pic I found online, but a bit more rusted and reddish. (4 tiny screws near spring on left side of socket)
gb_x399_gaming_7_5.jpg
Thoughts on whether this matters? Should I exchange the motherboard?
 
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Zerk2012

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A bit over budget but gets you close to the final goal.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1700X 3.4GHz 8-Core Processor ($329.59 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Corsair - H100i 77.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($99.99 @ Corsair)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - GA-AX370-Gaming K5 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($141.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($570.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($327.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate - Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($66.89 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB GAMING X Video Card ($759.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design - Define R5 (Titanium) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Corsair - RMx 1000W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($177.95 @ Amazon)
Case Fan: Fractal Design - HF14-BK 118.2 CFM 140mm Fan ($16.49 @ OutletPC)
Total: $2581.85
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-08-22 14:34 EDT-0400
 
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ar1111

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Thanks. Your suggestion certainly seems like a reasonable option. I actually went with the extravagant option and ordered components for a Threadripper system.
 
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ar1111

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I ended up going with a Threadripper 1950x build with 32GB RAM, 2x GTX 1050 Ti, and 500GB SSD. The build details are:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Threadripper 1950X 3.4GHz 16-Core Processor ($999.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-U14S TR4-SP3 140.2 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Gigabyte - X399 AORUS Gaming 7 ATX TR4 Motherboard ($389.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill - TridentZ RGB 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($373.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($139.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital - Blue 3TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($90.89 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Western Digital - Blue 6TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($196.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB Video Card ($142.29 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design - Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($99.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Corsair - Professional 1200W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($269.99 @ B&H)
Optical Drive: LG - WH16NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($58.88 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: ViewSonic - VX2478-SMHD 23.8" 2560x1440 60Hz Monitor ($258.79 @ Amazon)
Monitor: ViewSonic - VX2478-SMHD 23.8" 2560x1440 60Hz Monitor ($258.79 @ Amazon)
Monitor: ViewSonic - VX2478-SMHD 23.8" 2560x1440 60Hz Monitor ($258.79 @ Amazon)
Keyboard: Logitech - MK520 Wireless Ergonomic Keyboard w/Laser Mouse ($34.69 @ Amazon)
Other: StarTech.com Mini DisplayPort to DisplayPort Multi Monitor Splitter - 3-Port MST Hub - mDP 1.2 to 3x DP MST Hub ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Other: MSI Computer Video Card (GTX 1050 TI 4GT OC) ($159.99 @ Amazon)
Other: BESTEK Power Strip 8-Outlet 1500 Joules Surge Protector with 8A 6-Port USB Charging Ports ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $3824.02
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-04 14:59 EDT-0400

After some initial pains, the system seems to be up and running without problems, configured as I'd like it. My OS is Ubuntu 17.04.

I actually haven't yet purchased the third 1440p monitor, but am planning to.

This ended up being MUCH more expensive than I initially planned (initial budget: $2,500; final spend: $4,100 including taxes), but it's a much more capable system and I think I'm satisfied with the features/price of the system. I might upgrade it by adding more memory, storage, or GPU compute power in the future.

Currently, I have no way to monitor the CPU temperatures (no drivers under Ubuntu), which is disappointing. But RAM seems to be running at 3200MHz without trouble, and Graphics card temps tend to stay below 45-50C. I'm reasonably satisfied with the noise levels (the system is quieter than my Dell XPS 13 laptop under load). Ubuntu 17.04 seems to work quite well with these components.

Many thanks to all who responded.
 
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Shotta06

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Your builds gets me slightly confused. I too have the 1950x. Why go with 5400 RPM HDD? TR supports quad channel so you should of gotten a 4 RAM kit. Since when can you SLi a 1050Ti?? Only 1070 and above can. With that build a 1080 should be the min.
 
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ar1111

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Shotta06 and Lucky_SLS, thanks for the comments.

5400RPM HDDs were chosen to optimize for quietness, not speed. Those drives will be used for media or backup so slow speed is ok. And I read that 7200RPM can be much noisier. The OS and VMs live on the SSD.

Regarding RAM, I traded some speed for upgradeability. I am likely to increase RAM to 64GB (in which case I'll be using quad channel 4x16GB anyway), and may even increase to 96GB or 128GB depending on necessity - in that scenario, the 4x8GB would be wasted.

Regarding 2x 1050 Ti, the purpose is not gaming: one 1050 Ti is dedicated to video output, the other is for experimenting with CUDA/deep learning etc. I might add 1x or 2x 1080 Ti later, also for CUDA/deep learning, but didn't want to commit to that yet, so am experimenting with a relatively cheap 1050 Ti.

Your thoughts? This is my first build, so am happy to be educated if I could have made better choices given these considerations.
 
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Karadjgne

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Careful with ram. What you have now is dual channel ram. That's it. If you add 2x more sticks, then you get 2x sets of dual channel ram not a quad channel setup. There is a big difference between the two. Quad channel ram is specific in its rom, it's actually different than straight up dual channel and the 2 don't mix well at all. So if and when you do decide to upgrade the ram, you should get a full 4x stick quad channel, or go ahead and splurge if you want the 128Gb and buy a full 8x stick kit in 1 shot. Don't mix and match, you'll have issues.

Quad channel ram has roughly twice the bandwidth of 2x2 dual channel ram, and this'll be important for VM usage. Games and most programs won't show much, if any, difference as they'll not saturate even dual channel usage, but running VM's is a different beast altogether as dual channel will get saturated when individual machines split available bandwidth for separate usage.
 
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ar1111

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Karadjgne, thanks for that response. It seems I misunderstood dual vs quad channel.

I am indeed running VMs, though only 2-3 VMs at a time and usually only one is being actively used at a time. I don't think they're resource intensive. But it would be nice not to have the limitation.

Another thought: one of the reasons to get the 1950x was to concurrently run multiple workloads (e.g. multiple runs of machine learning algorithms) simultaneously. Could this also be similarly affected by dual vs quad channel?

Does it matter whether I buy 1 kit of 8x16GB vs 2 kits of 4x16GB - both would be quad channel, correct?

What do people do in scenarios where they're unsure about future RAM needs? It looks like the only options are to spend big to buy all the RAM initially, or live with lower performance if you want to buy incrementally, or buy quad channel low capacity RAM but then throw it away when it's time to upgrade...
 
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Karadjgne

Karadjgne

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It's always better to buy just 1 kit. Normally when ppl upgrade by adding 1 stick, you only have to worry about that stick and whether the batches are compatible. The silicon that makes up the ram will have a certain amount of impurities to it. Having ram from the same batch is the best idea, as the impurities match up. With different batches there's a good chance, especially with higher speed ram, that the secondary and tertiary timings that you don't normally see and the impurities in the silicon will create enough of an issue to basically render the ram incompatible, or at least need voltage or timing or system agent adjustments to get them to play nice. 2x separate 4x quad channel just added an exponent to that as there's now 8 sticks, and it only takes one to throw a hissy fit, making you miserable trying to figure out what's up. An 8 stick kit is almost always a sequential numbered kit, from the same batch of silicon, with the same timings and factory tested and guaranteed to be compatible.
That said, I've had identical ram, same model, same vendor, same everything except tertiary timings be a complete wash, no way compatible, and had 2 totally different sticks, different vendors, different timings and even speeds work together like they were identical twins. So mixing ram can and is a complete crap-shoot, absolutely no guarantees on anything.
 
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Lucky_SLS

Lucky_SLS

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I think you can go with a single quad channel kit for now. If you get another kit in the future, u just have to tinker with the ram timings to sync both the kits. Worst case if it not possible, both the kits will run at the slowest speed possible for both of them.
 
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