1024-QAM ? or alternately, which router to buy?

otacon237

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hello all, i'm currently shopping for a router for myself and my parents. I am staying at their place for the time being, Comcast was jacking up the price on them so I managed to get a better deal under my name as a new customer, we're getting the 150mb/s blast internet.

problem is, their equipment is woefully outdated. it was fine for their 25mb/s basic internet, my dad and I are both gamers and all three of us work from home several times a week, from various points in the house, so a good modem and router are a must.

my dad is going with the NETGEAR - CM1000 modem, and it's up to me to buy a router. I've been looking at the ASUS RT-AC88U, but i'm not sure I understand what 1024-QAM is, based on some other searches it seems like I wouldn't get much use out of it unless I have devices that use the same modulation? I didn't want to blow $250 bucks either but I don't mind if it really future proofs the device for a few years.

based on my research, it seemed like QOS and beamforming were big for wireless gaming. i'd prefer a tri-band too but I think we should probably be fine with a dual band, I doubt we'd have more than 4-5 devices running at any one time though we probably have 8-10 in total that would be part of the network (just not all at once). i'd probably want the wave 2/ MU-MIMO since that seems to be the next evolution in router tech. and preferable all around $250, if that's even possible lol.

tl;dr, what do you guys suggest for a wave 2, tri band gaming router around $250, and also what is 1024-QAM and/or should I care?

thanks
 
I'm assuming you are planning on working mostly via wifi? including gaming?

Honestly, if you don't want to spend that much and its just for around 5 users. You could do something like a Linksys 1900ac. Has good duel band and should be able to handle your ISP speeds.

https://www.linksys.com/ph/p/P-WRT1900AC/

Also has a lot of features such as Cloud support, controllable via phone app, etc...

Or maybe the Nighthawk might fit you better.
https://www.netgear.com/home/products/networking/wifi-routers/R7000.aspx

I'm just recommending these because I have used them personally. They have been great without breaking the bank. Especially the Night Hawk.
 
Lol NitroQAM is just Broadcom's proprietary not-AC wireless standard. It only works with Broadcom wifi NICs and 1024-QAM is just the next step beyond 3/4 256-QAM (AC's best modulation rate) which already requires a whopping -52dB signal at 80MHz, and -48dB at 160MHz to work so is only good for a very short distance before it drops to 64-QAM (which is the same as N uses). I have a difficult time holding 256-QAM beyond 15 feet from an AC router so you can see 1024-QAM, which requires an even 5dB stronger signal to work, would be completely useless except for pretty marketing numbers. It can never actually work in the real world where the noise floor isn't zero.

I suggest any of the top 20 routers on this chart as they will have enough performance even if you move to gigabit service. Note the prices are all over the map and $53 gets you one of them.
 
Have to agree with the above mostly this is marketing hype for people that just have to have the biggest "number".

Unless you plan to replace the nic cards in your end devices most these feature will sit unused in a fancy router. For example it is extremely rare to even find a end user nic that has 4 antenna.

Running games has little to do with how fast or how many feeds a router has. It is almost purely a function of how much interference you are getting. This mostly depends on how much signal you are receiving from neighbors who are also using WiFi. Now with cars with wifi hotspots you will get people driving by the house causing new signals. No matter what you buy the problem will always be mostly out of your control. This is why it is recommended you never play games on wifi.

In most cases ..unless you plan to replace all your nic cards.. a 802.11ac router that claims a speed of 1200 or 1750 will be good enough.
 

otacon237

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Well so I don't mind paying a bit more for futureproofing, so I guess the question is, should I spring for a mu-mimo router or stick with su-mimo and instead focus on features like beamforming and QOS? We dont really have any mumimo compatible devices right now, ill have to check the smart tv when I get home. I could probably upgrade my rig with a mumimo card if there even are any (I could only find USB dongles), so that would help me with work/gaming but my laptop and my parents' devices would still be stuck in sumimo mode. Bill, you mentioned interference and signal consistency, I believe this is where beamforming and QOS are beneficial? Sorry if that's a dumb question, I'm still learning.
 
To be fair, you might have the perfect use case of NitroQAM if you have a PC with Broadcom Wifi and no ethernet located three feet away from the router ;)

QoS is mature now thanks primarily to fq_codel, which made my bufferbloat score on Comcast go from F to A. I would not get a router without this type of QoS as it works great to minimize latency when under heavy load. It keeps RAM buffers in routers across the internet from filling up on their way to or from you (which could cause ping measured in multiple seconds) by discarding low priority packets, but has no effect on high-latency wireless links like 4G or Wifi.

As for futureproofing, the folks behind fq_codel have a new ambitious project to minimize latency of Wifi. It would make sense to buy a router with Atheros or Mediatek chipset that can be flashed with open-source firmware later when this project is complete, or to buy a cheap router for now and expect to get another then. The main problem with wifi is its unpredictable ping which can be over 900ms. Rather than trying to fix this the IEEE have been pushing ever higher bandwidth (as it gives nice large marketable numbers) even at the expense of latency.

Compared to the elephant in the room that is latency, the issues helped by MIMO seem minor: multiplexing again improves bandwidth numbers while beamforming improves reception and rejection of interference. If you are close enough the high signal strength overwhelms any interference, so I prefer to use many cheap APs!

A tri-band router is just two 5GHz radios in the same box as the usual 2.4GHz one, mostly to generate a large number to print on the package. Theoretically you could have two 5GHz devices connect, each to its own radio on the router so each gets full bandwidth--but there is no way to guarantee they won't both just connect to the same radio, though MU-MIMO would help. I would much rather have a dual-band router plus a dual-band AP, as then you'd get an extra 2.4GHz radio out of the deal to put on a different channel, plus you could space them apart because each device is far more likely to connect to the closer radio.

Keep in mind that just about any router can be repurposed into an AP if you get a newer, fancier router later. Ones that can take 3rd party firmware are even more flexible so can be used as a bridge or repeater, or even as a client to connect a wired network to the coffee shop's free Wifi, for example.
 

otacon237

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hmm, so how would I tell what kind of QOS and chipset a router has? I couldn't find those specifics in the spec sheets. I'm looking at the Nighthawk 4XS R7800, seems like a decent blend of futureproof wave 2 tech and current tech performance around my price range.

http://
 
Download the manual and look in it.

For example ASUS uses factory firmware (asuswrt) based on Tomato. They even assist in the making of Merlin firmware for power users which is based on the factory firmware, and lets you choose between QoS modes SFQ, codel or fq_codel.
 

otacon237

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I couldn't find the supported firmware in the manual but SNB forums says it supports it! I did notice it is an Atheros chipset from the manual. so I guess the r7800 is good to go then? i'll probably grab one from my nearby Best Buy after work tomorrow.