Issues with Graphics Card

Official_flaiR

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Hello,

Recently, I started having issues that make it impossible to play any 3D games on my PC. I have never had any issues up until now and I am unsure as to what could have caused it.

Whenever I boot up a game (Left 4 Dead 2, Rainbow Six Siege, Counter-Strike, Overwatch, etc) and try to play, within 10-30 seconds the PC will crash, show a random solid color on both of my displays and will not operate until I hard reset the machine. All 2D games work fine.

The problem started the morning of 9/25/2017 and was never present until then. The only things that have changed was that I installed Microsoft Office programs and installed 3 new steam games. After uninstalling everything new and doing multiple clean-ups (Disk Cleanup, Glary Utilities, CCleaner, etc,) the issue still persists. I have tried taking out the card and putting it back in, using only 1 monitor, changing resolutions, stress tests, and even checked the Event Viewer for problems, but found nothing. If anyone has had this issue before and knows how to fix it, I would love some guidance to help resolve it.

My specs are:
CPU: Intel Xeon E5-2680
Motherboard: Intel DX79TO (LGA 2011)
GPU: EVGA GTX 980 Ti
RAM: 24 GB's DDR3
PSU: Ultra LSP 650W
WD Hard drive - 1TB

Thank you,
flaiR
 
Solution
Is this a SC series card ? ... SC series are almost always reference PCBs and they tend to have issues with VRMs. See if you can duplicate it running Furmark ... take note of power, hat and voltages as it runs ... and if exceeds 82C end the test

http://www.ozone3d.net/benchmarks/fur/
 

Official_flaiR

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Thank you for the response!

My graphics card is the EVGA SC ACX Gaming 2.0 and usually runs between 82C-84C whenever I play games anyway. I have 5 120mm fans (2 bring in air, 3 remove hot air) and my system always seems to run hot anyway. My CPU never overheats, but the graphics card always does. I'll attempt a Furmark test to see the results and get back to you in a bit!

Thank you,
flaiR
 
Uh, everything I see about your PSU says it's trouble. it could also very well be the source of your GPU issues as 3D requires a higher power draw than 2D. That PSU could damage parts as it's known to use a low-end OEM to make the PSU. It might appear to work fine, but it could be stressing parts, especially as certain parts demand more power.

Try switching out your CPU with a known good quality PSU (borrow if need be) and see if the problem clears up. Also try a different GPU as well, just to see if the problem lies there. (I'd try both in the order listed, keeping the test PSU for the replacement GPU test.)
 

Official_flaiR

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The GPU has been working fine for 2 months straight up until this morning when I finished installing the new steam games and the Microsoft Office programs. I recently uninstalled and re-installed my GPU drivers and things seem okay at the moment.

Update: The issue still persists despite the re-installation of the drivers.
 

Official_flaiR

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I just reformatted my whole PC to test if this issue was hardware related and found that the issue still persists. I am almost convinced that the card has suddenly become damaged or is having some kind of unusual issue because this never happened up until now.
 


I've had a similar problem with GPU long time ago. It would work fine in 2D, but any attempt to run 3D game would end up quickly in artifacts and freeze of whole machine. Although it was possible to run some older 3D games (I remember 'Enclave' worked fine). This led me to assumption that it is some weird kind of hardware problem, and indeed swapping GPU solved problem. So I think if you already tried all software side solutions and nothing worked, it is also hardware problem with GPU. Although, if your motherboard has more then one PCIe x16 slot, I would move the card to another slot for a test to rule out bad motherboard slot before going for new card.
 

Official_flaiR

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I just tried using an older GPU and indeed, the issue does not happen no matter how hard I stress it. I guess I'll have to accept that I need to buy a new GPU as my old R9 270X won't be of much help with what I used to do on the 980 Ti. Thank you everyone for all the ideas and help!
 

Official_flaiR

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I just put the 980 Ti in my second PCIe slot and the same thing happened; launch the game and it crashes within 10 seconds with the loud buzzing sound. It's upsetting that this card still operates as if it works and can still display 2 monitors (one is 144hz the other is 60hz) and plays any 2D game fine, but anything from main menus to 3D gameplay crashes the whole PC. There aren't even any errors relating to the card, just events saying that an unexpected shut down occurred.
 


If your GPU is still under warranty, contact the manufacturer and see about an RMA to get it fixed. (I'd keep an eye on the PSU too though.)
 

Official_flaiR

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As of now, I'm using my old R9 270X which is a massive struggle to play with because of how hot it gets, but I have not experienced one crash yet, so it is 100% my 980 Ti. The PSU is 3 ish years old, but has never failed me once, so I highly doubt that caused anything. I was leaving my PC on overnight to install a big game (DOOM) and next morning when I went to play on it, the issue started. I have been leaving my PC on overnight for years, even before I had the 980 Ti and never experienced an issue like this...
 


Thing is, some of the garbage PSUs sometimes will still seem to run quite well, that is until you dig deeper and see tons of deadly noise on the lines. JonnyGuru showed that with the worst Bestec PSU out there. It ran for them, delivered right voltages for the most part, but there was so much noise from bad parts that the power supplied would have been deadly to anything connected to it. Maybe not immediately, but it would be sooner than later.
 


Ok, assuming all fans are the same size and rpm, lets think about this.

1. Intake fans will have their flow impacted by air inlet filters; if ya not an anal nerd / geek (guilty as charged), these filters get clogged with dust. Fog machine testing has shown it can get up to 30% reduction. so lets call it a third to make matheasy. So what do we get

... 2 fans blowing in x 2/3 for air filter restriction = 1.33 air flow in
... 3 fans blowing out = 3.00 air flow out
... that 980 Ti is also exhausting some air thru the slot but lets ignore that

So we have 3.00 / 1.33 or more than twice as much air going out than in. Since the case hasn't implo2ed from the negative air pressure, air must be getting in somewhere to make up for that loss, right ?

2. At this point you are probably thinking "I heard of that, negative case pressure brings dust into t he case". And while that is true, it's the least of your concerns. Loom at pictures of ya case and see where the largest openings ... unfiltered openings are . This is almost always going to be the rear case grille and the vented slot covers. So we have identified the most likely places for air to get in ..

3. What do we know about the air back there ... up against the wall or perhaps under your desk ? That's where heat from the 250 watt GFX card is exhausting ... that's where your 850 watt PSU is exhausting ! And yes, much of that hot exhaust air is being sucked right back into your case thru those big openings.

So the 1st step in solving the problem is getting rid of that negative air pressure. With 5 fans either 3 in and 2 out or 4 in and 1 out is the only way to go. If ya try it otherwise, invest $33 in a garage band fog machine from Amazon, blow the fog behind the case and then watch the case fill up w/ fog.

I know, we all learned in 8th great earth science that hot air rises. And it does ... But if ya can understand the expression "don't pee into the wind" you will immediately understand why hot air rises is meaningless. Hot air does not rise up against a fan blowing the other way and the effect of that force on the fan is too small to measure.

The 980 Ti when installed w/ proper case ventilation should top out at 77C

temp.gif


At load that's hotter than any air cooled 980 Ti they tested other than the Strix, Colorful and reference cards.

Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti XtremeGaming 65°C
ASUS GTX 980 Ti Matrix 68°C
ZOTAC GTX 980 Ti AMP Extreme 67°C
MSI GTX 980 Ti Lightning 65°C
Colorful iGame GTX 980 Ti 82°C
Palit GTX 980 Ti JetStream 71°C
ASUS GTX 980 Ti STRIX 76°C
ZOTAC GTX 980 Ti AMP! 70°C
MSI GTX 980 Ti Gaming 74°C
EVGA GTX 980 Ti SC+ 76°C
Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming 70°C
NVIDIA GTX 980 Ti 84°C

2. After addressing the fan situation, You can take side panel off and use a desk fan to blow tons of air in there as a temporary measure) another thing we can check is this ... Run HWiNFO (Sensors only) and check the max voltages on the three power rails (3.3, 5.0 and 12.0 volts) when Furmark is shut down for reaching 84C

The ATX standard requires that voltage not waver beyond 5% ... in reality, for stability we want much more than that. Enthusiasts like to see , < 1%. If voltage on the 12v rail drops 5%... that means that to supply the same power, amperage must increase 5% ... more amperage means more heat Unfortunately, if it not more than the ATX standard of 5%, then you have no warranty recourse.

3. The card could be faulty. It is an SC series and, historically, that's a problem in and of itself. Call EVGA and tell them ya story, and what you have don to narrow the cause.... be prepared for "it's the [name 5-6 other PC components] fault responses tho.


 

Official_flaiR

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My case does have dust filters, but I recently cleaned them out about 2-3 days ago (there wasn't that much on them). The PC case is also very new (about 1 month of use). My PC is stuck between a dresser and a wall as I currently have no where else to put it. I've tried putting a large fan just behind the case to help disperse the hot air, but that hardly helped. Just 15-20 minutes ago, I put new thermal paste into the GPU (there was very little in there to begin with) and the temps were the same. Idle temperatures have always been an issue with me, regardless of extra fans and other methods of removing heat. My old R9 270X runs idle at about 45C but can ramp up as high as 90C when playing any game (even low graphics bare-bones game play). The 980 Ti idles at 66C but quickly heats up to 83C when playing most games. All fans are operating, not clogged and run at high speeds, but heat has always been a problem.

Also, Furmark does not crash the GPU, it's only 3D games and it started happening out of the blue. Games like Geometry Dash and The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth are perfectly ok, but anything 3D and the crash happens within seconds, regardless of temperature or how long the PC has been in use.
 

Official_flaiR

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My R9 270X now gives an error that says "Your rendering device has been lost" on most games when I play them for longer than 20 minutes, but they don't crash like the 980 Ti... I have no other working PSU's over 600W to test with, so I'm in a very helpless situation.
 


Yeah, trying to get an estimate on power put it at around 567W with the 1080Ti... awfully close to max for that PSU... I'd actually say bump up a replacement/test unit to 650-750W. The R9-270X doesn't pull as much power (497W vs 567W) as a 1080Ti, so that might explain why it didn't crash the way it did previously. I personally would just get a replacement PSU anyway...

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/R7V48d,HHx9TW,9q4NnQ,Rp8H99/

If you're in the States, one of those four in the link should make good replacements with a little more breathing space with a 1080Ti added.
 

Official_flaiR

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I found the issue! I sadly had no spare parts to help me figure this out sooner, but I noticed that when I stressed my card old R9 270X like crazy with 2560x1440 (120hz) in Overwatch with the highest possible graphics, the card never crashed or got very hot (maybe 82C at most). When I put everything back to low with 1920x1080 (144hz) to stress the card less, just leaving the main menu open made my card go from 67C to 97C (still surprised the card isn't dead), but the more I stress the card, the better things are. This must be an issue with the PSU giving incorrect voltages for what is necessary (it is almost 4 years old anyway). Now that I know it's not my GPU, I'm able to buy a nice cheap 1000W PSU and that should resolve all of my problems! Thank you everyone for the suggestions and help!
 


OK I realize that ya spend a lotta time cleaning out dust but it has no impact. If you pulled out the dust filters completely, you still have the same problem. 3 is still bigger than 2 so more air out than in, the filters provide resistance all on their own even when new. Its might not be 3 > 1.33 with dirty dust filters ... its still 3 > 1.66 w/ brand new never used / freshly cleaned dust filters.

The purpose of Furmark was not to address the crashing issue, it was to address the temps issue. You really shud not be seeing anything over 77 and i expect recycling all that hot air thru ya case is the cause. The question is, if ya reverse the top fans, squished in as it is between furniture, will it suck down air climbing yo the wall.

 



That's where i was going here:

The ATX standard requires that voltage not waver beyond 5% ... in reality, for stability we want much more than that. Enthusiasts like to see , < 1%. If voltage on the 12v rail drops 5%... that means that to supply the same power, amperage must increase 5% ... more amperage means more heat Unfortunately, if it not more than the ATX standard of 5%, then you have no warranty recourse.

Did you ever use HWiNFO to take the voltage readings ? If voltage drops, amps go up and certain circuits mat shut down or misbehave.
 



A 1000W PSU is a bit overkill unless you plan on going SLI. A 750W-850W PSU will still have plenty of headroom, AND allow you to purchase a better quality unit having a 5 year warranty if not a 7-10 year warranty. If the PSU you're looking at has less than a 5 year warranty, AND isn't a small-form-factor or ITX size unit, it's best to avoid or you'll be back in the same problem. Shoot for a 7 or better year warranty for a better PSU to start with. EVGA (SuperNova G2), SeaSonic, Corsair (HX,TX,AX,RM) are probably the best to stick with if you got the funds. can you should be able to find models within that grouping that are, in the States, < $100 and should last you through your next major upgrade.

 
Solution