CPU Overheating - i7 4790k

robbiew114

Honorable
Aug 31, 2017
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Hi guys,

Randomly get BSOD during gaming and been trying to arrive at the cause and get a solution and think I'm getting there.

Ran Memtest and Intel Processor Diagnostic (both 100% passed) as well as reinstalling Windows, the MoBo drivers and reinstalling the BIOS, however still get BSODs when playing more modern games, Total War Warhammer atm.

Installed HW monitor this week and looked at the stats, all seems good for my rig except that my CPU can get to 90 degrees. Went on the intel website for my model and it's max temperature is 74 degrees. This could explain the kernel power BSODs because would the PC be turning itself off to prevent damage to hardware? I can often hear the stock cooler stopping and starting during games.

Motherboard: ASUS VII Ranger
Processor: i7 4790K CPU 4ghz
PSU: Corsair CP-9020015-UK Builder Series CX750 ATX/EPS 80 PLUS Bronze Power Supply Unit, 750 W
RAM: Corsair 8gb DDR3
GPU: NVIDIA GTX 970

The intel info for my model is here;

https://ark.intel.com/products/80807/Intel-Core-i7-4790K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_40-GHz
 
Solution
Yeah, I know ... well ... the essence of the topic always seems to be in the details. :D

It's amazing how quick one-liners always succeed in flinging misinformation around like Gorilla Poo in a cage, but it takes paragraphs of explanations with illustrations to clean up the mess.

Since there's such an abundance of conflicting misinformation on the Internet and Forums concerning Intel's clear-as-mud specifications, I've never found a way to make these points unmistakably clear without some sort of detailed explanations and links to back it up ... or is it just my OCD? :pt1cable:

Whoa ... there's a Guide for this ... maybe if we could somehow get everyone to check out the Stickies ... :sol:

trampus123

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Dec 31, 2007
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that is a good CPU cooler but it is not good on that chip you need bigger like this
https://www.amazon.co.uk/noctua-NH-D14-Noctua/dp/B002VKVZ1A/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1506770273&sr=8-8&keywords=noctua
or if you can fit
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thermaltake-Cooling-System-Cooler-Radiator/dp/B0196LP4AY/ref=sr_1_3?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1506770372&sr=1-3&keywords=thermaltake+cooler
or this if you can afford
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/kits/slim-series
 

trampus123

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Dec 31, 2007
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the hyper 212 will work on a 4790k at 70c+ in a game like Warhammer and more so in a poor vented case.
if you do a 212 look at your case and add fans if you can or run the fans you have faster.
You know the 4790k CPU will start to throttle back at 70-75c will shut down at 104c
If you keep running it at max temp it will fail you want to get the chip to run a game and not go over 70c
 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8vX80JNVU
Looks like 60c to me
 

trampus123

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Dec 31, 2007
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ok on a test bench or well vented case I think he only has two case fans if will more likely need more case fans
 
best guess would be a heating related problem that resulted in the cpu not having proper power. IE overheated cpu or gpu or PSU. I would monitor temperatures and confirm system voltages are correct. make sure all of the fans are spinning at full speed.
I did not see overclock drivers or bios overclocking.

maybe repaste the cpu heatsink, check cpu pads for burnt pads or bent bins under the cpu. if the problem only happens with a external gpu during a game, then make sure the gpu is not overclocked and has proper power. Make sure the GPU external power connections are connected if you have them.
--------

system was up for 24 minutes, then the cpu called a bugcheck because of a cache memory error inside the cpu
error Type : Cache error
Operation : Generic
Severity : Fatal

Error : DCACHEL0_WR_ERR (Proc 6 Bank 1)


 

CompuTronix

Intel Master
Moderator

robbiew114,

I've reviewed this Thread and there's a few misconceptions we need to dispel, so other Members and readers don't become even more confused concerning an already poorly understood and very confusing topic, since Intel's specifications are about as clear as mud.

The Thermal Specification to which you've correctly referred is "Tcase". However, Tcase is a very misleading specification that most users nearly always misinterpret. Also, the information which trampus123 has provided is incorrect.


trampus123,

Respectfully, you appear to be misinformed. The Thermal Specification to which you've referred is "Tjunction" and is synonymous with "Tj Max" or "Throttle" temperature. The correct specification for the i7 4790K is 100°C.

• Desktop 4th Generation Intel® Core™ Processor Family Datasheet, Volume 1 -
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/datasheets/4th-gen-core-family-desktop-vol-1-datasheet.pdf

• See Section 5.4, Page 76, Table 27, First Row, 4th Column - TCC Activation Temperature.

Further, "Shutdown" temperature is not 104°C. Instead, shutdown will occur at approximately 130°C IF Intel Adaptive Thermal Monitor is "disabled" in BIOS, which you should NEVER do.

• See Section 6.9, Page 92, Table 40, Bottom Row, THERMTRIP# ... "The processor will stop all execution when the junction temperature exceeds approximately 130 °C. ... "

Guys,

Intel Desktop processors have temperatures for each "Core" and a temperature for the entire "CPU". Core temperatures are measured at the heat sources near the transistor "Junctions" inside each of the Cores where temperatures are highest. CPU temperature is a single measurement centered on the external surface of the CPU's "Case" or "Integrated Heat Spreader" where the cooler is seated.

Core temperature is considerably higher than CPU temperature due to differences in the proximity of sensors to heat sources.

The Thermal Specification for Core temperature is "Tjunction" which is also called "Tj Max" (Temperature Junction Maximum) or “Throttle” temperature. The Thermal Specification for CPU temperature is "Tcase" (Temperature case) which is a factory only measurement.

Tcase and Tjunction (Tj Max) Thermal Specifications are both shown in Intel’s Datasheets, which include all specifications, definitions and technical descriptions. Intel's Product Specifications website should be viewed as a quick reference, since it only shows the Thermal Specification for Tcase or Tjunction (Tj Max), but not both. The Thermal Specification for 7th and 8th Generation processors is Tjunction (Tj Max), but for 6th Generation and all earlier processors it’s Tcase.

Here's where processor temperatures get confusing:

Since there are numerous software utilities for monitoring Core temperature, when users look up their processor's Thermal Specification at Intel's Product Specifications website, many don't realize what Tcase actually means, and assume it must be Core temperature.

Tcase is not Core temperature.

"Tcase" is a factory only temperature measured on the external surface of the Integrated Heat Spreader (IHS). Tcase isn't tested on retail processors, but for lab testing only, engineering samples are used. A groove is cut into the surface of the IHS where a "thermocouple" is embedded at the center. The processor is installed, the stock cooler is seated, the thermocouple is connected to measurement devices and the temperature is then tested under carefully controlled conditions.


Core temperature, which is also called "Tjunction"(Temperature junction), is measured at the heat sources near the transistor “Junctions” inside each Core by individual Digital Thermal Sensors (DTS).


Here's the operating range for Core temperature:

Core temperatures above 85°C aren't recommended.

Core temperatures increase and decrease with Ambient temperature.

Tcase specifications are not Core temperature. Although Tcase is measured on the Integrated Heat Spreader (IHS), it's also calculated based on stock cooler TDP and processor TDP. Cooler models with different TDP values are packaged with different TDP processors. Several Generations of Quad Core CPU's at 77, 84, 88 and 95 Watts were packaged with a universal 95 Watt cooler (E97378). 6th and 7th Generation mainstream i5 and i7 "K" processors are 91 Watts (8th Generation 95 Watts), but Intel's specified 130 Watt stock cooler (BXTS15A) is sold separately.

Intel Stock Coolers - http://www.anandtech.com/show/10500/stock-cooler-roundup-intel-amd-vs-evo-212/3

Compared below are three Intel processor / cooler combinations with respect to TDP and Tcase Specifications:

Example 1: i7 2600K 95 Watts TDP / Cooler 95 Watts TDP / Difference 0 Watts / Tcase 72°C. <--
Example 2: i7 3770K 77 Watts TDP / Cooler 95 Watts TDP / Difference 18 Watts / Tcase 67°C.
Example 3: i7 6700K 91 Watts TDP / Cooler 130 Watts TDP / Difference 39 Watts / Tcase 64°C. <--

The higher the cooler TDP is from the processor TDP, the lower the Tcase specification, just as when the stock cooler is replaced with a higher TDP aftermarket cooler, Core temperatures are lower. Tcase is based on different combinations of stock coolers and CPU's. This is primarily why specifications vary. The examples above suggest the 6700K is less thermally capable than the 2600K, which is misleading, because the 6700K has a higher Throttle temperature.

Here's the Throttle temperatures for several popular processors dating back to 2006, including Thermal Design Power (TDP) and idle Power, which are expressed in Watts (W).


8th Generation 14 nanometer i7 8700K / i5 8600K (TDP 95W / Idle 3W),
7th Generation 14 nanometer i7 7700K / i5 7600K (TDP 91W / Idle 2W), <--
6th Generation 14 nanometer i7 6700K / i5 6600K (TDP 91W / Idle 2W) :<--
Tj Max (Throttle temperature) = 100°C

5th Generation 14 nanometer i7 5775C / i5 5675C (TDP 65W / Idle 2W):
Tj Max (Throttle temperature) = 96°C

4th Generation 22 nanometer i7 4790K / i5 4690K (TDP 88W / Idle 2W), <--
4th Generation 22 nanometer i7 4770K / i5 4670K (TDP 84W / Idle 2W):
Tj Max (Throttle temperature) = 100°C

3rd Generation 22 nanometer i7 3770K / i5 3570K (TDP 77W / Idle 4W):
Tj Max (Throttle temperature) = 105°C

2nd Generation 32 nanometer i7 2600K / i5 2500K (TDP 95W / Idle 4W): <--
Tj Max (Throttle temperature) = 98°C

1st Generation 45 nanometer i7 860 / i5 750 (TDP 95W / Idle 12W),
1st Generation 45 nanometer i7 920 D0 (TDP 130W / Idle 12W):
Tj Max (Throttle temperature) = 100°C

Core 2 45 nanometer Q9550 E0 (TDP 95W / Idle 16W),
Core 2 65 nanometer Q6600 G0 (TDP 95W / Idle 24W):
Tj Max (Throttle temperature) = 100°C

Further, the 6700K and 7700K share the same Tcase 64°C and Tjunction (Tj Max) 100°C specifications and thermal capabilities. While the Datasheets show both specifications, Intel's Product Specifications website is limited to only Tcase for 6th Generation and earlier processors, or only Tjunction (Tj Max) for 7th and 8th Generation. For Core X series (formerly called High End) 6x and 7x processors, the website shows no Thermal Specification whatsoever, but the Datasheets again show both.

Mobile (laptop) processors don’t have an Integrated Heat Spreader, so they don’t have Tcase specifications; only Tj Max. And since Intel's website shows the Thermal Specifications for 7th and 8th Generation Desktop processors as Tjunction (Tj Max), this standardizes Desktop and Mobile specifications. Intel's long overdue change signifies that Tj Max has always been the limiting Thermal Specification; not Tcase. Although Tcase is useful for developers of cooling solutions, Tcase is a misleading, confusing and unnecessary specification for users.

Tj Max specifications are shown in the Datasheets and in the monitoring utility "Core Temp" - http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp

Tj Max specifications may vary with TDP. Certain low TDP processors Throttle below 85°C (185°F) but many 3rd Generation processors Throttle at 105°C (221°F). Low TDP Core i 6th, 7th and 8th Generation CPU's have Configurable TDP (cTDP) and Scenario Design Power (SDP) which can trigger Throttling below Tj Max. Although most processors Throttle at 100°C (212°F), it’s not advisable to run your CPU near the thermal limit, just as you wouldn't run a vehicle with the temperature gauge pegged in the red "hot" zone.

If your hottest Core is near it's specified Tj Max Throttle temperature, then your CPU is already too hot. The consensus among highly experienced and well informed system builders and overclockers, is that cooler is better for ultimate stability, performance and longevity. Experts agree it's prudent to observe a reasonable thermal margin below Tj Max. So regardless of environmental conditions, hardware configurations, workloads or any other variables, Core temperatures above 85°C aren't recommended.

• Here's an interesting YouTube interview between Tom's Hardware and Intel concerning Core temperature and stability in the i7 4790K - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGTnJkuqlbo

• As has already been suggested, you should replace Intel's stock cooler, which is marginal at best, preferably with the Cryorig H7. Since some processors become unstable above 80 to 85°C, replacing the cooler may reduce Core temperatures to the point where your processor may regain its stability, or at least allow you to eliminate Core temperatures as a troubleshooting variable. Additionally, you can try re-seating the 12 volt CPU connector on the motherboard and monitoring the PSU +12 volt rail for voltage sags and stable power delivery by using Hardware Info - https://www.hwinfo.com/download.php

• If you'd like to get up to speed on this topic, then please read this Sticky: Intel Temperature Guide - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html

CT :sol:
 

CompuTronix

Intel Master
Moderator
Yeah, I know ... well ... the essence of the topic always seems to be in the details. :D

It's amazing how quick one-liners always succeed in flinging misinformation around like Gorilla Poo in a cage, but it takes paragraphs of explanations with illustrations to clean up the mess.

Since there's such an abundance of conflicting misinformation on the Internet and Forums concerning Intel's clear-as-mud specifications, I've never found a way to make these points unmistakably clear without some sort of detailed explanations and links to back it up ... or is it just my OCD? :pt1cable:

Whoa ... there's a Guide for this ... maybe if we could somehow get everyone to check out the Stickies ... :sol:
 
Solution
there is a very good video with Simon Senek explaining why people born after 1980 are so impatient - they want everything here and now. just like same day deliveries from Amazon :)
also, many people are just not capable of reading comprehension (exception with porn stories) :)

so most of the posters expect "push that pink button and everything will be fine" magic answers :(