8GB RAM > 12GB/16GB in MemMark scores. Why?... I'm Completely Baffled!

illumind · Oct 2, 2017

Z68MA-D2H-B3 MB - i5 2400 - 1HDD (240GB SSD) - Windows 7.

Tested the 3 RAM combos below and strangely ALL individual Memory Mark tests (except the final 'Memory Mark' score) are up to 5% higher with 8GB... Why the hell is this? The available RAM is higher with 12/16GB, so it reads the extra memory, but it doesn't help the scores one 'bit', so to speak! I'm STUMPED. Anyone know how/why this is so...?

08GB DDR3 1333 1.5v (2*4GB) G.Skill
12GB DDR3 1333 1.5v (2*4GB+2*2GB) G.Skill
16GB DDR3 1600 1.5v (4*4GB) Crucial Ballistix Tactical

Windows Experience 'Memory' also dropped from 7.9 (previously) to 7.6 with ANY of the above combos after fresh Windows7 Install... **Reinstalled due to changing RAM without everything off/unplugged AND not clicking one in correctly before this happened. After that I had corrupt files/chkdisk/cookedPC errors and no boot, so reinstalled Windows. Prior to that Windows would Index 8GB as 7.9, and 12/16GB as 7.6. Same situation with MemMark scores. Only difference is now even 8GB won't score as 7.9.

Any opinions at all?...

HEXiT · Oct 2, 2017

because you have a dual channel controller on the cpu. basically it has to switch from 1 rank to another, rather than being able to access all 4 in 1 go. this consumes cpu cycles at each switch over.

SkyNetRising · Oct 2, 2017

Changing 2 ram modules to 4 requires Command Rate to be increased from 1T to 2T.
That causes slight performance hit - exactly, what you're observing there.

illumind · Oct 2, 2017

SkyNetRising :

Thank you both! I'm googling now to learn about ^. So it means I can't get better performance from 4 slots than 2, despite adding extra GB into them? Begs the question, why bother adding extra slots onto the board if it lowers individual MemMark scores??... Eg, Read/write/ops/threaded - ALL lower with extra RAM added to extra slots.

Curiously, any idea how to figure out why my Windows RAM Ex-Index dropped from 7.9 - 7.6 and won't go back up?

Nonetheless, I'll select one of your answers once googled and understood... Very much appreciated btw.

SkyNetRising · Oct 2, 2017

illumind :

Because usually more ram is significantly more important than slight performance decrease.
And you notice this only on benchmarks. In everyday apps you won't notice this at all.

Also it is cheaper to add 8GB rather than buying a new 16GB kit.

illumind · Oct 2, 2017

SkyNetRising :

I assume by cheaper, you mean cheaper than buying a set of 2x8GB sticks to run in dual channel so it's not switching between 2 dual channel sets as mentioned above. My 16GB RAM is a complete set of 4x4GB from the manufacturer.

In summary, more available RAM is of greater importance than the resulting individual lower scores in ALL below areas for memory:

* Database Operations
* Read Cached
* Read Uncached
* Memory Write
* Memory Latency
* Memory Threaded

Hard to believe, but I'm no expert! I'll look more into it. And select the solution shortly. Thank you.

Lastly, any idea why the Windows Experience Index for RAM has permanently gone from 7.6 to 7.9?

Vic 40 · Oct 2, 2017

Like i said in the other thread can you add some voltage.Again up to 1.65V is safe,can be done by adding 0.05V per time and see if it helps.

Maybe posts some pics of cpu-z (freeware) of the memory tab and the spd tab to see how the four sticks run currently and how they should be able to run looking at specs.

illumind · Oct 2, 2017

Vic 40 :

I'm extremely hesitant to change anything until I can get my original 8GB RAM running the way it was prior to the Windows RAM score going from 7.9 to 7.6. My system was great with just 8GB RAM and since playing around it's been nothing buy heartache and lower scores, even when reset back to how it was. I wish I had it back like that. : (

SkyNetRising · Oct 2, 2017

Why exactly are you so worried about those scores? Not that they have any significant impact on "real world" performance.

illumind · Oct 2, 2017

Vic 40 :

This implies you disagree with the above solution, is that correct? If so, could you explain why they're incorrect so myself/others can better understand. Appreciated.

illumind · Oct 2, 2017

SkyNetRising :

What would you do? Would you just run 8GB in dual channel and save the drawbacks of running quad channel memory in 2T dual channel slots, or would you run the extra sticks anyway? Looks like I'm better of just running my 8GB Ripjaw set in dual and getting rid of the 16GB quad channel Crucial RAM. The system runs slower if anything with the 4 sticks - as you explained.

To answer your question, I'd be ok with it if I could compare my current system performance to before the corrupt files/chkdisk/cookedPC issues. I see those issues as the catalyst for WEI RAM performance drop, but I lost my old test results when I formatted Windows so can't compare.

Vic 40 · Oct 2, 2017

illumind :

This is correct,so i don't disagree.And he's right too about the scores,in real life performance is there no way for you to tell the difference.Just thought that with some extra voltage maybe there's some extra stability and maybe even better performance to soothe your mind.

Did you enable XMP btw? Need to go into the bios for that=>into the "M.I.T" (MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.)) look at the "Advanced Frequency Settings",there you will find the abilty to enable XMP. Need to close the bios =F12 and click yes (or just the Y) to make sure the settings are changed.
Try this first before changin voltages,might not even be necessary if the ram is running at spd speed now.

illumind · Oct 2, 2017

Vic 40 :

The Z68MA-D2H-B3 manual says 1333MHz is the highest recommended, so was apprehensive to engage XMP, as it would run the RAM at 1600MHz and alter other settings, from what I've read. I did see the option in BIOS though. I just see changing things like volts as potentially more nuclear-like options. With XMP I just figure the less strain the better - I've caused enough strain already - switching on/off too quickly/not clicking RAM in/BSOD's and boot issues - all self inflicted really. Good for learning though!

NB. The Ripjaws were running at their designed speeds, it's just the Crucial that aren't... The Z68 mobo says it can run 1600MHz on their website, I j just went by my hard copy instead.

SkyNetRising · Oct 2, 2017

illumind :

Me personally?

I'm running 4 ram modules and that 5% memory performance decrease doesn't bother me.

It all depends on software you're using. If that software requires more than 8GB and you have only 8GB, then performance hit is massive as system starts using hard drive for virtual memory. Everything just gets reduced to stutters /crawl speed.

If your system ram usage never gets close to 8GB limit, then your perfectly fine with using just 8GB.

Vic 40 · Oct 2, 2017

Got XMP enabled now? How does pan out?

illumind · Oct 2, 2017

Vic 40 :

Everything I've read so far suggests it's unwise to enable and could create instability. Short answer is, so far, not yet.. I like to understand things before wildly flicking settings with complete abandon because people tell me to.

illumind · Oct 2, 2017

SkyNetRising :

It's starting to make sense, so thank you. Any opinion on Vic40's continual push to engage XMP or up voltages? I'm feeling a little pressured here! CPU-Z says the crucial RAM is 8-8-8-24 / 1600MHz and running as below. Also, mobo says it suits up to 1333MHz in manual so without XMP it appears to default to mobo settings as expected.

Freq = 665.1MHz
FSB = 1:5
9
9
9
24
2T (as you said)

I'm very close to deciding whether I go with the 8GB Ripjaws or the16GB Ballistix set you'll be pleased to hear!

Vic 40 · Oct 2, 2017

The XMP makes it run at rated settings which this ram can have and is tested with so don't know why you are so anxious to do this.
Now it runs at what is called the spd speed at which the ram should work anyway in all boards.This has higher timings and lower speed and you wonder why your windows rating is so low.

illumind · Oct 2, 2017

Vic 40 :

I understand that RAM has a "rated setting", which isn't the MB's. But does that automatically mean we should all run our 1333MHz RAM sticks at 3,300MHz, if that's what the RAM is "rated at"? The motherboard is set like that to avoid unnecessary duress and prolong it's life.

My sole fundamental problem now (and you'll be commended if you can solve it) is that I had 8GB Ripjaws RAM installed and they were rated by W.E.Index at 7.9 their whole life... Then *things happened* as outlined ^ and since then Windows measures my 8GB sticks the same as it would measure 6GB, with a rating of 7.6... Enabling XMP has nothing to do with this set because the option isn't and wasn't ever available in BIOS for it - only the crucial set displayed XMP as an option.

I don't think it's the slots, as I've tested both channels, I don't think it's the RAM as I ran 4 passes with one stick and 1 pass the other in Memtest. I suspect something between CPU and slots, but I'm admittedly I'm a neophyte and don't know anymore than that. I'll re-run the Memtest tomorrow night for more passes than 1 & 4 to completely rule out the sticks. It will likely become an eternal mystery as to why no sticks/combos break the 7.6 barrier when a mere 8GB did so easily before.

Bedtime, it's 5am where I am.

* And I may still try XMP with the Crucial sticks as a once off just to see if it boosts the score, but I HIGHLY doubt it from everything I've seen thus far.

Vic 40 · Oct 2, 2017

illumind :

Goodnight and sleep well

... or maybe even GOODMORNING! when you read this.

illumind :

That's up to you,i see no reason why not.Do it for all my sticks.

The reason why it was not shown with the old sticks is that they couldn't use the higher speed at all,1333mhz is about the deault sdp speed for ddr3.

And as you found out does the motherboard run 1600mhz (otherwise would that option not show) and the cpu should be able to handle it too.

SkyNetRising · Oct 2, 2017

illumind :

Your motherboard supports ram speeds: DDR3 2133/1866/1600/1333/1066 MHz
Plus it also has support for Extreme Memory Profile (XMP) memory modules.
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3-rev-13#sp
So it's perfectly safe to run RAM at 1600mhz speed.
I'm not sure, where you got that 1333mhz limitation info.

If you want to get to previous memory performance levels, then change command rate manually to 1T in BIOS.
Note - this option is to be used only with 2 ram modules on board. With 4 modules you'll get errors.

illumind · Oct 3, 2017

SkyNetRising :

*Crucial*
Rechecked manual, my apologies, you're right. Turned it ON in BIOS and the specs in CPUID-Z 'Memory' are 665.1MHz and 99924, not 88824 - no change? Half of BIOS reads one way, half the other.

*Ripjaws*
The tCMD in BIOS = 1T and still reading as 7.6 for WEI Memory score with 8GB Ripjaws. I stupidly made all the below mistakes within a couple of hours before this happened, then reinstalled Windows. I can't see any other reason why RAM scores would suddenly drop for the first time ever. Modules passed Memtest.

* Mismatching sets in different channels
* Not clicking a module in properly and turning PC on.
* Changing RAM while PC is not unplugged and off
* Turning the PC on/off in "reasonably" quick succession.
* BSOD's while running MemMark with the 8GB+4GB combo in.
* HAd to boot "Last known good" at least once.
* Corrupt files / Chkdisk & CookedPC errors
* Ran Startup Repair on SSD (to no avail)
* Couldn't load Windows

Guessing this thread may have been abandoned...

SkyNetRising · Oct 3, 2017

Did you install all of the windows security updates?

Honestly - I wouldn't worry about that windows experience index.

illumind · Oct 3, 2017

SkyNetRising :

No, always avoided Windows for that sort of thing.

Re WEI, I'm going to have to let it go, aren't I... My mind will struggle with that! *sigh*

How do I check if XMP is working as it should? I have 2*4GB Crucial modules in currently with XMP Profile 1 selected in BIOS. I haven't Shutdown yet though.

SkyNetRising · Oct 3, 2017

illumind :

Then do it. Your scores might go up after that.
On freshly installed windows7 update process is rather tricky.
First this:
https://www.howtogeek.com/255435/ho...l-at-once-with-microsofts-convenience-rollup/
Then this:
http://wu.krelay.de/en/2016-07.htm
Then run windows update normally.

illumind :

Check with CPU-Z (sections spd and memory). Post screenshots.

8GB RAM > 12GB/16GB in MemMark scores. Why?... I'm Completely *Baffled*!

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8GB RAM > 12GB/16GB in MemMark scores. Why?... I'm Completely Baffled!