This is going to be a long post, but please bear with me, because I can't seem to get a clear answer in the forums that I have been browsing. I'm looking to upgrade my hardware from an i7-4970K on a Gigabyte GA-Z97X-Gaming 7 motherboard to a new setup. I'm looking at the new 8th generation Intel i7-8700K and a MSI Z370 GAMING M5 LGA 1151 motherboard. From what I understand, this motherboard can run my 1080 Ti with a Samsung 960 Pro (a M.2 that uses 4 PCIe 3.0 lanes) both at their full speed, since its specs are that you can run the 3 PCIe 3.0 x16 slots at (x16/x0/x4). It is my understanding that this means that you could run my graphics card, which uses 16 lanes, and the 960 Pro, which uses 4, for a total of 20 lanes. However, Intel's specs for this processor state that it can only support a maximum of 16 PCI Express lanes, which seems at odds with the motherboard specs, which show that it can support 1 slot at x16 and 1 at x4. However, it is also my understanding that the chipset itself provides PCI lanes as well. This would seem to indicate that the motherboard would have to provide the additional 3.0 lanes that the M.2 card would need to run at full speed. All I'm really looking to do is run my 1080 Ti with that 960 Pro that I mentioned before, as I don't plan on adding another graphics card to SLI anytime soon, given the fact that the 1080 Ti seems to be running all my games at 4k and 60FPS. Just as an aside, I do know that if the combination will only support up to 16 lanes, it would run my graphics card at x8, which, by my understanding, wouldn't slow it down that much, leaving the other lanes free for the M.2. So, the short question is this; will this new combination of an 8700K processor and Z370 motherboard run both my 1080 Ti and 960 Pro at full speed? If not, I'm thinking about going with the i7-7800X, which has 28 PCI-E lanes even though it's more expensive, just for the sake of being able to install more RAM and other extras later. All asnwers are greatly appreciated.
PCI-E 3.0 x16 graphics card with M.2 PCI-E 3.0x4 SSD
- Thread starter gmwil
- Start date
Solution
BFG-9000
Splendid
- Sep 17, 2016
- 3,424
- 439
- 27,090
To clarify, the 8700k CPU supplies 16 lanes to the first two x16 slots, in either x16 or x8/x8. The 3rd x16 slot is electrically x4 and supplied from the chipset PCH, not the CPU.
While the PCH can supply up to 24 lanes, note that it is only connected to the CPU with DMI 3.0 which is equivalent to x4 and thus a bottleneck.
While the PCH can supply up to 24 lanes, note that it is only connected to the CPU with DMI 3.0 which is equivalent to x4 and thus a bottleneck.
BFG-9000
Splendid
- Sep 17, 2016
- 3,424
- 439
- 27,090
Yes, if nothing else on the PCH is using PCIe at the same time, then it could fully saturate both the x4 link from the M.2 and the x4 link to the CPU at the same time.
The more that's going on with the PCH, including ethernet, SATA and USB, the more that the M.2 will be limited because it has to share the bandwidth of the DMI link.
The more that's going on with the PCH, including ethernet, SATA and USB, the more that the M.2 will be limited because it has to share the bandwidth of the DMI link.
I thought I remembered reading something to that effect, but there are/were so many differing answers to posts regarding this topic. So, if I'm looking for the maximum performance from my graphics card and a 960 Pro, then I'm better of going for the X299-based i7-7800X since it won't bottleneck with 28 lanes being provided from the CPU. Am I understanding that correctly?
BFG-9000
Splendid
- Sep 17, 2016
- 3,424
- 439
- 27,090
Skylake-X processors provide 28 or 44 PCIe lanes direct from the CPU (in addition to the same 24 from the PCH over DMI 3.0--because it made more sense to reuse the old PCH so as to not have to write different drivers) so yes, they can eliminate the bottleneck of the chipset link for storage.
However if you want to enable RAID on a bootable CPU-connected array of up to 20 drives, you'll have to pay for it. Besides an i9 Skylake-X, VROC only works with Intel SSDs, and if you want anything but RAID0 you'll have to buy a hardware key which plugs into a dedicated header on the motherboard and unlocks other RAID modes. ASUS demonstrated ~12GB/s using eight Intel M.2 600P SSDs.
Meanwhile over at AMD, their Threadripper offers 60 CPU connected lanes (plus 4 used for the chipset) that may be used for storage or however you like, for half the price. It's still early days for RAID on that platform, as NVMe RAID support was just launched this month, but you can use any brand of SSD in any configuration for no extra cost. Most boards feature three M.2, connected via x4 links to the CPU, leaving enough CPU lanes for three x16 slots.
However if you want to enable RAID on a bootable CPU-connected array of up to 20 drives, you'll have to pay for it. Besides an i9 Skylake-X, VROC only works with Intel SSDs, and if you want anything but RAID0 you'll have to buy a hardware key which plugs into a dedicated header on the motherboard and unlocks other RAID modes. ASUS demonstrated ~12GB/s using eight Intel M.2 600P SSDs.
Meanwhile over at AMD, their Threadripper offers 60 CPU connected lanes (plus 4 used for the chipset) that may be used for storage or however you like, for half the price. It's still early days for RAID on that platform, as NVMe RAID support was just launched this month, but you can use any brand of SSD in any configuration for no extra cost. Most boards feature three M.2, connected via x4 links to the CPU, leaving enough CPU lanes for three x16 slots.
So, really, there is almost no reason to go with Intel in this application. It shows that even the least expensive Threadripper, the 1900X, has 60 CPU lanes for 100 dollars less than the i7-7820X, which still has only 28. If I'm understanding what you're saying, then Intel has really dropped the ball on the SSD-RAID subject. At best, it's just an an oversight on their part. At worst, it's Intel saying that if you want the best stuff, you have to buy our stuff, or you have to pay a premium in order to use anybody else's drives if you want the to use RAID in all of its forms. Really, the only downside I'm seeing is, after browsing Newegg, is the relatively few number of X399 motherboards on the market.
BFG-9000
Splendid
- Sep 17, 2016
- 3,424
- 439
- 27,090
To be fair, it takes years to develop a CPU line and Intel had no way of knowing AMD would be competitive again for the first time in 12 years. So of course Intel was always going to charge for every bell and whistle in order to squeeze as much money as possible from the customer. It's not just limiting 44 PCIe lanes to i9--their entire HEDT lineup doesn't support ECC RAM because they wanted you to spend even more for the Enterprise grade Xeon platform if you needed that. AMD gives ECC to HEDT Threadripper customers, but note they are doing product segmentation too as it isn't in consumer grade Ryzen (neither is 60 CPU lanes).
Neither platform is terribly mature at the moment, with x299 boards overheating and x399 having so many RAM compatibility issues, but they will improve. If you do go for Threadripper, be sure to select RAM certified to work in the QVL.
Neither platform is terribly mature at the moment, with x299 boards overheating and x399 having so many RAM compatibility issues, but they will improve. If you do go for Threadripper, be sure to select RAM certified to work in the QVL.
I've noticed that in the forums as well. The motherboard that I was taking a gander at was the ASRock X399 Taichi, and luckily they have that information readily available on their site. I did notice, though, that they didn't have a 960 Pro, of any description, or a 512GB 960 Evo listed as part of their Storage QVL. Hopefully, in time, those will get tested and confirmed as functional for this motherboard. Although, when looking at the Threadripper series and their motherboards, one has to wonder as to whether the extra brute force that it provides could be justified, price-wise, over one of the new Intel 300-series CPUs and motherboards. If you were just running a single graphics card and a single 3.0 x4 M.2 SSD, how much of a difference would you notice between the 16-lane Intel setup as opposed to a 60-lane Threadripper setup? I'm guessing that the difference would probably not be too pronounced, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks, in significant part to your input on this subject, I have pretty much decided that I will invest the extra funds into buying one of the Threadripper CPUS and a corresponding motherboard so that I can have plenty of oomph for processor-demanding upgrades in the future.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Question Is in Intel i3-2100 upgradable to an Intel i5-6600
- Started by thesummers04
- Replies: 18
-
News Firefox user loses 7,470 opened tabs saved over two years after they can’t restore browsing session- Started by Admin
- Replies: 25
-
Question Transferring data from intel installed windows boot ssds to a new system
- Started by rebpc23
- Replies: 5
-
-
-
Latest posts
-
-
-
Question I have 48gb RAM but system only sees 23.9 GB? B450M DS3H motherboard
- Latest: Jake Maverick
-
-
-
-
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram