Need feedback/advice on a new build

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mrkhly89

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I am deciding on parts for a Kaby Lake build and would really appreciate some feedback.This will be my 2nd ever PC build. I built my first PC with help from this community and it was a complete success, as well as being a thoroughly rewarding experience. I believe I am now addicted. Therefore I have convinced myself that I need to build a new one. :D Budget is €1500 max.

So here goes:

CPU: Intel i7 7700K

CPU Cooler: Arctic Freezer i32 (already have it on my shelf, waiting for a job. I want to overclock the i7 7700K to 4.8GHz. As far as I can find out this cooler should be sufficient.)

Motherboard: Undecided. I want to be able to overclock the cpu to 4.8GHz without too much hassle. I was thinking about getting an Asus ROG Strix Z270, but have seen many bad reviews regarding customer support. So now I am almost certainly going to get an MSI board (I used the MSI z170 Krait Gaming 3x in my first build and i like it. Also MSI apparently have excellent customer support), but I need one with the ability to clock the cpu to 4.8.

So, I am leaning towards the MSI z270 gaming M3, M5 or M7. I'm not pushed about having wifi or bluetooth, I will probably use a wired connection anyway. I don't really care for lighting (I prefer subtle lighting, maybe an LED here and there). Is the M7 really worth the extra money compared to the M5 or M3?

GPU: MSI GTX 1080 Duke. (the cheapest 1080 and again, MSI. Looks like good value)

RAM: CORSAIR Dominator Platinum 16GB (2 x 8GB) CMD16GX4M2B2400C10

PSU: Undecided. Seasonic Flagship Prime Series SSR-750PD 750W Platinum Full Modular or Seasonic FOCUS Plus Series SSR-750FX 750W Full Modular.

The Focus is about €50 cheaper than the Prime. I am leaning towards the Prime just because its more expensive. I'm not worried about efficiency gold or platinum or whatever. I just want quality and reliability.

SSD: SAMSUNG 850 EVO 2.5" 500GB (The best by all accounts)

HDD: WD Black 2TB Performance HDD. (Really not sure about this. Again reliability is my main concern.)

Case: Phanteks Enthoo Luxe Series PH-ES614L_BK Full Tower ATX. (Also already in my possession and I love it, love it, love it. :) It's big and beautiful)

So, excluding the case and CPU cooler which I have already, the total for the items above is just around my budget of €1500, which is convenient :D

The prices are dropping on many of these items, I just wonder what this build would have cost a year ago... I am hoping to see some deals on these on Black Friday weekend. I'd be interested to hear peoples thoughts on Black Friday. Is it really so great or just a load of hype?

Any feedback, advice or thoughts on this build would be greatly appreciated.





 
Solution
Aeacus
Got a PM from OP to help out and now i'm here.

CPU cooler
i7-7700K is great chip but it has a drawback and that is heat. Out of all chips in Skylake, Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake CPU families, i7-7700K is the most hot running chip,
review: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-kaby-lake-core-i7-7700k-i7-7700-i5-7600k-i5-7600,4870-8.html

While Arctic Freezer i32 is a great CPU cooler and will do fine with any level of OC on other CPUs, i fear that it may not be enough to cool the i7-7700K on the high-level OC you're planning to go. I usually suggest going with Noctua NH-D15 or Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 to cool off i7-7700K, especially when you OC it,
NH-D15 specs: http://noctua.at/en/nh-d15/specification
Dark Rock Pro 3 specs...
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cluedude2210

cluedude2210

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That’s a nice build. As for the motherboard, if you want to overclock you should probably go with an ASUS motherboard. But the MSI boards are nice too. As for m3, m5, and m7. They’re different that m3 is an entry level board with less features. m5 is a mid range board and m7 is a high end board.
 
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jmckinney28

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Just curious, but why are you building a new PC and not just upgrading your current rig? Do you need two PCs?

Your current motherboard will support the 7700k. Personally I would take that extra money and put it towards other upgrades.
 
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mrkhly89

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It will be used mostly for gaming, flight simulation (FSX), MS office. I don't do any video editing or anything of that nature. I do a small bit of programming on VB for college.

 
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vapour

vapour

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Aug 28, 2017
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I5-8600k is recommended, comparison here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGNwPP8MBS4
Doesn't have to be platinum, focus point gold is very reliable already and Supernova G3 is very good too. 550+ can handle your rig already, but you can go to 750 if you will SLI in the future.

My edits:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8600K 3.6GHz 6-Core Processor (€369.00 @ ARLT)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC - Liquid Freezer 240 74.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (Purchased For €0.00)
Motherboard: ASRock - Z370 Extreme4 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (€169.34 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory (€152.56 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (€155.84 @ Mindfactory)
Storage: Western Digital - BLACK SERIES 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (€119.90 @ Caseking)
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1080 8GB WINDFORCE OC 8G Video Card (€531.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Case: Phanteks - Enthoo Luxe ATX Full Tower Case (Purchased For €0.00)
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G3 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (€89.64 @ Mindfactory)
Total: €1587.28
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-11-13 16:47 CET+0100
 
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mrkhly89

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Great question. There are a number of reasons. The biggest being my pain in the ass brother who takes every chance he can to hijack it and play Arma. I'll convince him to buy it from me. Then I will be free from his annoying presence forever :D

As far as I'm aware the Z170 doesn't support the 7700K out of the box. I think it need a bios update. But i take your point and see where you're coming from. Of course i don't need 2 rigs :D

 
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mrkhly89

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The asus strix z270f was my first choice. It's the customer support i'm worried about. MSI are meant to be very good.
 
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mrkhly89

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Thanks :) I am now completely torn between MSI and ASUS for a board. I have an ASUS gtx 1060 in my first build on an MSI board and was able to OC the i5 6600k to 4.1GHz at the push of a button. Thanks, I will check the specs and see what i really need. I may just end up taking a chance on the Asus board if its easier to overclock
 
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jmckinney28

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Yea just needs a bios update. I run a 7700k and 1080 on my Z170 Mobo (upgraded from 6600k). Got myself a 1440p 144hz monitor and my system pushes it without a hiccup.
 
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mrkhly89

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Thanks for the reply :)

Good to know that the Seasonic Focus is good and reliable. It was my first choice. I think they recommend 600W for the 1080 but yeah I was thinking 750 would give me some head room for the future.

As for the CPU. I should have mentioned that the target of this build is to run FSX as well as possible. It is a very difficult thing to accomplish. I have it running nicely on my Skylake build, but not to its full potential. From painstaking research I have learned that the 7700k is an absolute must for FSX. It's tried and tested over a long period to be the absolute best CPU for FSX, which is heavily CPU dependant, because of the high clock speeds. FSX performance increases exponentially with clock speed so my target is 4.8GHz with an air cooler and room for future upgrading.

That said, I am open to possibilities but the 8th gen are very expensive and dont go any faster. I don't need hyperthreading or even 6 cores

The RAM and GPU are still very important. The dominator kit i listed is 2400MHz with cas 10. This is the fastest kit I could find, but pricey.

Likewise a high end processor should be paired with a high end video card. What do you think of the Duke?
 
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mrkhly89

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Interesting. If it wasn't for my pest of a brother this would probably be the route I would take. It's a lot of money
 
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mrkhly89

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I did watch it, I promise :)
The 7700K can also go well over 5GHz with liquid cooling. I'm sure I read an article recently that said the 8th gen processors can't clock any faster than the 7th gen. They have made some other improvements but not to the clock speed. I'm sorry i don't have a reference at hand but check it out. Also the new processors are more expensive.
 
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mrkhly89

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You mustn't have read my answer, or understood it.

Here's an i7 7700k clocked to 7GHz:

http://bgr.com/2017/01/01/i7-7700k-overlock-7ghz/

It means nothing. You can't say they are better just because they are new. I had already decided on the 7700K because it IS BETTER for MY own requirements.

I do appreciate your input, so thank you. I am just needing to decide on a motherboard for this build now.
 
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Aeacus

Aeacus

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Got a PM from OP to help out and now i'm here.

CPU cooler
i7-7700K is great chip but it has a drawback and that is heat. Out of all chips in Skylake, Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake CPU families, i7-7700K is the most hot running chip,
review: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-kaby-lake-core-i7-7700k-i7-7700-i5-7600k-i5-7600,4870-8.html

While Arctic Freezer i32 is a great CPU cooler and will do fine with any level of OC on other CPUs, i fear that it may not be enough to cool the i7-7700K on the high-level OC you're planning to go. I usually suggest going with Noctua NH-D15 or Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 to cool off i7-7700K, especially when you OC it,
NH-D15 specs: http://noctua.at/en/nh-d15/specification
Dark Rock Pro 3 specs: https://www.bequiet.com/en/cpucooler/482

NH-D15 is the king of air coolers, matching even the cooling performance of many high-end AIOs with 240/280mm rad,
further reading: http://www.relaxedtech.com/reviews/noctua/nh-d15-versus-closed-loop-liquid-coolers/1

Since NH-D15 aesthetics isn't best due to the beige/brown coloring of their fans, you can go for Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 which has far better aesthetics while cooling performance difference is 1-2 degrees Celsius from NH-D15,
pcpp: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/9bFPxr,4vzv6h/

RAM
While Corsair Dominator Platinum does have low CAS latency due to the low operating frequency (2400 Mhz), you will run into RAM clearance issues if you decide to go with NH-D15 or Dark Rock Pro 3 since RAM sticks are 55mm tall. NH-D15 has RAM clearance up to 32mm and Dark Rock Pro 3 has RAM clearance up to 34.90mm, if the front fan remains in place and without moving it upwards.

Though, there's an easy fix to RAM clearance problem:
1. Either use smaller fan (120mm) as a front fan to get enough clearance for RAMs,
2. or mount the front fan to the rear, as seen from this image here,
link: https://play3r.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Noctua-D15-Install-7.jpg

Another fix, while leaving front fans in place, would be using normal-profile RAM, e.g Corsair Vengeance LPX which is only 33.5mm tall,
pcpp: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/product/MYH48d/corsair-memory-cmk16gx4m2b3000c15

MoBo
For MoBo, i suggest going for MSI Z270 Gaming M5 due to the excellent OC support, plenty of features and good looks,
specs: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/Z270-GAMING-M5.html
review: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/msi-z270-gaming-m5-intel-kaby-lake-atx-motherboard,4873.html
pcpp: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/product/D9X2FT/msi-z270-gaming-m5-atx-lga1151-motherboard-z270-gaming-m5

HDD
WD Black drives are expensive since they have higher performance (read/write speeds) than WD Blue series HDDs. If you want reliable HDD, buy the server HDD which is designed to run 24/7, e.g Hitachi (HGST) Deskstar NAS drive,
pcpp: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/product/HPkwrH/hitachi-deskstar-nas-4tb-35-7200rpm-internal-hard-drive-0s04005
review: http://www.storagereview.com/hgst_4tb_deskstar_nas_hdd_review

Here's also further reading about HDD reliability where HGST drives are most reliable ones,
link: https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-stats-q1-2016/

With the same amount of money, you'll get twice the storage space (4TB vs 2TB). Though, WD Black comes with 5 years of warranty while HGST comes with 3 years of warranty. If you value warranty period and read/write speeds over reliability and storage space then go with WD Black,
comparison: http://hdd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/WD-Black-2TB-2013-vs-HGST-Deskstar-NAS-4TB/1821vs1971

GPU
If you're unsure which GPU brand to go for, here's a complete list with specs of all GTX 1080 GPUs on the market,
link: https://gpunerd.com/guides/best-gtx-1080-brand

PSU
750W PSU is more than enough for your system and there's no need to get higher wattage PSU, unless you plan using 2-way SLI.

Focus+ is the newest PSU line from Seasonic and it comes with 10 years of warranty while PRIME series is the best offered by Seasonic and it comes with 12 years of warranty.
There are also 3 levels of efficiency in PRIME series: 80+ Gold, 80+ Platinum and 80+ Titanium, where 80+ Titanium is the best PSU money can buy at current date,
pcpp: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/NN648d,tnVBD3,gbYWGX,64cMnQ/

With Seasonic PRIME 80+ Titanium series, you'll get the highest efficiency (94%), tightest voltage regulation (0.5%), longest hold-up time (30ms), lowest ripple noise (20mV) and longest warranty (12 years) there is. Fully modular cables and toggle-able Premium Hybrid fan control too.
specs: https://seasonic.com/product/prime-750-w-titanium/
review: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=481

My Skylake build is also powered by PRIME 80+ Titanium series PSU but my PSU is 650W (full specs with pics in my sig).
Oh, all semi- and fully-modular Seasonic PSUs are also compatible with CableMod SE-series custom sleeved power cables. To match my Skylake's black & red theme and Haswell's black & blue theme, i have replaced the stock black power cables with CableMod SE-series custom sleeved power cables (red colored for Skylake and blue colored for Haswell).
cablemod: https://cablemod.com/products/?filter_series=se-series&show_products=48

So, if you want the best of the best, go with Seasonic PRIME 750 80+ Titanium PSU. But if it's price is a bit too much for you, a small notch down from the best is Seasonic Focus+ 750 80+ Gold. There's also Focus+ 750 80+ Platinum PSU if you want a bit better efficiency.
 
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mrkhly89

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Thank you for the excellent reply.

I agree with you about the M5 motherboard. I watched a few reviews on the MSI boards and they are easy to overclock, which is what I wanted. And the MSI Command Centre App looks good. So I'm sold.

Hmmm, maybe I should consider a better cooler so.

I really want that RAM. Will any cooler with a 120mm fan fit? How would mounting the front fan on the rear work, pull instead of push? I don't fancy brown fans. Do you think that the Dark Rock Pro 3 with the front fan mounted on the rear would work in this build?

Thanks again for your help and so much helpful info, it's greatly appreciated.
 
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Aeacus

Aeacus

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If you go with Dark Rock Pro 3 then you'll need 20mm extra clearance for your RAM sticks. While you can move the front fan up or to the rear of the heatsink to get enough clearance for your RAM sticks, you can't move the heatsink fins and under there, clearance is 39mm. I'm not sure on how much the heatsink hangs over RAM slots but in general, it covers the 1st slot from CPU.

When the front fan is mounted on the rear then yes, rather it working as push when mounted at the front, it needs to work as pull when mounted on the back. Though, since MoBo has plastic back I/O cover, i can't tell if the fan hits it when you mount it to the rear of the heatsink or not.

Since CAS Latency is important to you and RAM clearance is an issue, how about considering going with Kingston Savage RAM?
specs: https://www.kingston.com/datasheets/HX424C12SB2K2_16.pdf
pcpp: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/product/zsL7YJ/kingston-memory-hx424c12sb2k216

Kingston Savage RAM is also 2400 Mhz but it's CAS latency is a bit higher than Dominator Platinum, 12 vs 10. Reason why i suggest Kingston Savage is due to the fact that they are only 34.57mm tall and they won't give you any RAM clearance issues with Dark Rock Pro 3. Kingston Savage is also €42 cheaper than Corsair Dominator Platinum.
In my Skylake build, i also have Kingston Savage RAM in use but mine is 4x 4GB, 3000 Mhz, C15. Kingston Savage is really good performing RAM, though they are also very hard to get.
 
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mrkhly89

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Ok. I will have to do determine what can fit. I read that one person used a Arctic i32 heatsink with a noctua fan on a 7700k @ 4.8GHz and got temps ~80 Deg. C under full load.
I saw another thread where a guy was getting 85 deg. at 4.8GHz with the dark rock pro 3, so who knows?

So if I can't get an air cooler that will fit, I guess my choices are different RAM or a liquid cooler, or I see that de-lidding is an option. I will have to look into this
 
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Aeacus

Aeacus

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Delidding
With delidding, you can get the temps down from 12°C to 25°C and it would help a lot. Complete package (delidding and binning) of i7-7700K at the Silicon Lottery costs $55, without shipping,
link: https://siliconlottery.com/collections/frontpage/products/delid

AIOs vs air coolers
Do note that you won't gain any cooling performance if you go with AIO over air cooler since both are cooled by air. For equal cooling performance between AIOs and air coolers, rad needs to be 240mm or 280mm.

Pros of air coolers:
less cost
less maintenance
less noise
far longer longevity
no leakage risks
doesn't take up case fan slots
additional cooling for the RAM
cools down faster after heavy heat output

Pros of AIOs:
no RAM clearance issues
no CPU clearance issues
takes longer time to heat up during heavy heat output

While how the CPU cooler looks inside the PC depends on a person. Some people prefer to see small AIO pump in the middle of their MoBo with tubing going to the rad while others prefer to see big heatsink in the middle of their MoBo.

Main difference between AIO and air cooler is that with AIO, you'll get more noise at a higher cost while cooling performance remains the same.

Personally, i'd go with air coolers every day of the week. With same cooling performance, the pros of air coolers outweigh the pros of AIOs considerably. While, for me, the 3 main pros would be:
1. Less noise.
Since i like my PC to be quiet, i can't stand the loud noise AIO makes. Also, when air gets trapped inside the AIO (some AIOs are more prone to this than others), there's additional noise coming from inside the pump.
2. Longevity.
Cheaper AIOs usually last 2-3 years and high-end ones 4-5 years before you need to replace it. While with air coolers, their life expectancy is basically unlimited. Only thing that can go bad on air cooler is the fan on it. If the fan dies, your CPU still has cooling in form of a big heatsink. Also, new 120mm or 140mm fan doesn't cost much and it's easy to replace one. While with AIOs, the main thing that usually goes bad is the pump itself. And when that happens, your CPU has no cooling whatsoever. Since you can't replace pump on an AIO, you need to buy whole new AIO to replace the old one out.
3. No leakage risks.
Since there's liquid circling inside the AIO, there is always a risk that your AIO can leak. While it's rare, it has happened. It's well known fact that liquids and electronics don't mix.

Though, if you still want to use an AIO and prefer to see AIO inside your build rather than big heatsink with fans, i suggest you go for NZXT x62 Kraken (280mm rad). x62 Kraken is slightly improved version of previous king of AIOs: x61 Kraken, which also has RGB LED on the pump for additional eyecandy,
specs: https://www.nzxt.com/products/kraken-x62
pcpp: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/product/2RdFf7/nzxt-kraken-x62-rev-2-982-cfm-liquid-cpu-cooler-rl-krx62-02
 
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mrkhly89

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Thanks for the info.

I would prefer to stick with an air cooler to keep it as simple as possible with less things to go wrong like you said. Plus I already have one.

I think it's worth delidding the CPU. It seems Intel cheaped out on the thermal paste. I am thinking I will buy a delidding kit and do it myself. It would be nice to have the security of a replacement CPU if it got damaged during delidding, but it looks simple enough and I am confident I would manage. The Rockit Cool kit looks very good.

So, with the CPU delidded, I am hoping the Arctic Freezer i32 will do the job. If I need a better cooler, then the PC will already be built, so I will be better able to determine what would work.

Also, I have decided to spend a little bit more on the GPU and get the MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X. It looks like the best card in that price range and better cooling than the Duke.

There is no hurry really with this build, so now I am wondering if I should wait until the new year for better prices.. (Probably won't wait)
 
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