Upgrading my PC

namdoan93 · Nov 16, 2017

Hello,

I built my current PC in 2010 (7 years ago), but I have upgraded RAM and Graphics about 3 years ago.I'm looking to upgrade my PC because I still lag in some of my games running normal/high video graphics. What would be the cheapest/ most efficient thing to upgrade.

This is my current build

Motherboard - Gigabyte P67A-UD3-B3
CPU - i5-2500K CPU
Memory - 1x8 GB Corsair , 2x2 GB (12 gb total)
GPU - GeForce GTX 970
SSD - 90 GB

Darkbreeze · Nov 16, 2017

Are you in the US market or are you in another country?

Darkbreeze · Nov 16, 2017

The first thing I notice that will definitely be a hindrance is the fact that with your memory configuration you are only running at about half the speed you could be. With 1 x8gb and 2 x2gb you can only run your memory in single channel, HALF the memory bandwidth that it would be if it was in dual channel. With one oddball module you cannot run in dual channel. I would highly recommend that you get another, identical, 8GB module and put both 8gb modules in one channel and the other two modules in the other channel.

This will double your bandwith. So instead of running at 800mhz you would be running at 1600mhz configuration, just as an example and not that your memory is specifically THAT particular speed. Currently your memory cannot run at it's advertised bandwith of 1033mhz, 1600mhz, 1866mhz or whatever the speed of your modules is supposed to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-channel_memory_architecture

It would also be helpful to know what kind of budget you have to work with?

namdoan93 · Nov 16, 2017

Darkbreeze :

I'm in the US

namdoan93 · Nov 16, 2017

Darkbreeze :

Wow I wasn't aware of that. Yeah I had a 2nd Corsair 8gb but I removed it because I kept getting the screen of death and I trouble-shooted it to the specific memory card.

Also my budget would be probably $300

Darkbreeze · Nov 16, 2017

Did you try that memory module with ONLY the other 8GB memory module installed, AND with them both in the slots corresponding to only one channel rather than one module in one channel and one module in another?

For your board you would want to try ONLY those two modules, at least at first, installed in the blue slots only. Do you still have the other module?

Darkbreeze · Nov 16, 2017

Might be a moot point though, because if you upgrade to anything worth upgrading to, you will need new memory as DDR3 is no longer supported for about the last three generations for Intel and for the Ryzen platform for AMD.

Do you have a preference of Intel vs AMD, or just whatever gives the most bang for your buck?

Do you have an aftermarket CPU cooler or just the stock cooler? This matters because many CPUs do not come with a stock cooler anymore, especially unlocked processors?

Are you wanting a processor you can overclock or do you not have plans to overclock even if you can?

namdoan93 · Nov 16, 2017

Darkbreeze :

I prefer Intel. and no after market CPU cooler, and no overclock(not sure how it works)

namdoan93 · Nov 16, 2017

Darkbreeze :

I might have the old ram. But for the modules, the blue slots of segregated. In the sense that it is White slot, blue slot (space between) then white slot, blue slot

Darkbreeze · Nov 16, 2017

Yes. The blue slots are one channel. The white slots are one channel. For dual channel to work you must have matching modules in slots of the same color.

And they must BE matching modules purchased in a matched set. Dual channel CAN work with very closely matched modules of the same size, voltage, speed and latency that were not purchased together but there is no guarantee that they will work in dual channel.

It is misleading that the DIMM slots are labeled 1,2,3,4, in order, when that is not how the population rules for that motherboard are designed. I will look into a build right now.

namdoan93 · Nov 16, 2017

Darkbreeze :

https://imgur.com/a/7SV9F

That's how I currently have it set up. So I should switch the 8bg in the white slot with the 2 gb in the blue spot

Darkbreeze · Nov 16, 2017

This is about the best, and possibly only one that makes upgrade sense if choosing Intel, that we can do for 300 bucks. The CPU will come with a cooler so an aftermarket cooler is not strictly necessary although at some point in the future it might not be a bad idea but for now the one it comes with will be fine.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-7500 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($159.00 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - GA-B250-HD3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($74.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($84.88 @ OutletPC)
Total: $318.87
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-11-16 02:27 EST-0500

There may also be mail in rebates on one or more of those items, but I do not choose to include them in the cost so that you will have an accurate picture of what your true initial investment will be.

Darkbreeze · Nov 16, 2017

namdoan93 :

So long as there is an oddball module, it doesn't really matter that much. If you were to remove the 8GB module though, or if you found the other 8GB module and discovered that it did indeed work, you would want either one of each 8gb module in the two blue slots, and the other modules in the two white slots,

or

only the two 8gb modules in the two blue slots WITHOUT the other modules installed (The 2gb modules being different than the 8gb modules COULD even have been causing the memory problem you were having. Having different sizes and models can cause ALL kinds of problems. Memory should truly only be used together when purchased in matched sets, regardless that it DOES SOMETIMES work using mismatched modules.

Regardless that you have a matched set of 2gb modules, if the two 8gb modules do in fact work I would leave the 2gb modules OUT. Unless you are running professional applications or specialized VM configurations, more than 8GB is probably not really necessary. 16GB would be nice to have, but not totally needed and games probably won't see much if any benefit from the extra 8gb. Oddball amounts like 6gb or 12gb should be avoided regardless of configuration.

You would probably even be better off with only the single 8gb module installed rather that it AND the two 2gb modules.

You COULD however, technically, run one 8gb module in each of the two blue slots and one of each 2gb module in each of the two white slots, and achieve dual channel operation, but there are serious problems with some chipsets when running more than two modules due to the voltage strain on the chipset, and your chipset is one of those that are prone to this without some serious tweaking of the memory configuration in the bios. Sometimes even then because the memory controller on that chipset is rather weak.

I'd prefer to see only the two 8gb modules or only the two 2gb modules, or only the single 8gb module, in use at one time.

namdoan93 · Nov 16, 2017

Darkbreeze :

Great, thank you so much!! I'm not sure what PSU I have but I hope it can support it

Darkbreeze · Nov 16, 2017

The new CPU, motherboard and memory should actually be LESS demanding on your power supply than your current setup because your current CPU is a 75w processor and the i5-7500 is only a 65w model. It is more energy efficient than your present CPU.

Also, two memory modules will use less power than the three you currently have. Also, if you WANT to go with more memory, now would be the time to try and increase the budget to include two 8gb modules for a total of 16gb instead of only two 4gb modules for 8gb.

Not totally necessary, as I said, most games won't even use more than 2 or 3gb itself anyhow, but if you also run other applications or like to stream/record while gaming, the extra memory might be beneficial.

Windows itself will generally only use 2-3gb regardless of whether you run 32 or 64bit windows. Also, I'm going to assume you are running 64bit windows since you currently have more than 4gb installed?

Might also be VERY beneficial to know what power supply model you DO have. Should be printed on one of the sides of the PSU or on a label on it somewhere.

namdoan93 · Nov 16, 2017

Darkbreeze :

The new CPU, motherboard and memory should actually be LESS demanding on your power supply than your current setup because your current CPU is a 75w processor and the i5-7500 is only a 65w model. It is more energy efficient than your present CPU.

Also, two memory modules will use less power than the three you currently have. Also, if you WANT to go with more memory, now would be the time to try and increase the budget to include two 8gb modules for a total of 16gb instead of only two 4gb modules for 8gb.

Not totally necessary, as I said, most games won't even use more than 2 or 3gb itself anyhow, but if you also run other applications or like to stream/record while gaming, the extra memory might be beneficial.

Windows itself will generally only use 2-3gb regardless of whether you run 32 or 64bit windows. Also, I'm going to assume you are running 64bit windows since you currently have more than 4gb installed?

Might also be VERY beneficial to know what power supply model you DO have. Should be printed on one of the sides of the PSU or on a label on it somewhere.

I saw a sticker on the side that said

Model Rev.: 01

SN:VR630FSN154201616 but i can't seem to find it online

Darkbreeze · Nov 16, 2017

Yes, that is the model revision and the serial number, but neither of those are the model. There should be a sticker that looks at least something like this, on every PSU sold in the US and most countries, with the unit's specifications and registered model number. Unless it has somehow come off, there should be one but it might be on a side that you can't see without removing the four screws holding it to the case and slightly turning the unit to where it is readable.

namdoan93 · Nov 16, 2017

Darkbreeze :

My PSU is Antec - 630W Mode lVP630F

I think I will wait for Mother/CPU combos upgrade on Black Friday and see if I can get any of these parts cheaper.

Darkbreeze · Nov 16, 2017

You know, after looking more closely at the real world benchmarks between the 2500k and the i5-7500, you might want want to hold off on that. While there IS some definite gaming performance gain to be had, it's not as as much as I had thought it was for some reason.

You might really want to wait, budget a bit more for the upgrade, and try to go with a Coffee Lake CPU, which is the current Intel platform. There are MUCH better gains to be had than with Kaby Lake, which is last years Intel release. Just a thought, but I'd hate for you to spend 300 bucks to only get maybe a 10-15% performance increase. This might definitely be a much better upgrade.

This could get you, and still probably mostly only in games where you are currently CPU limited, as much as a 30-50% performance gain depending on the game and whether it is one that is well optimized for threaded performance since this has two more cores than your 2500k and a higher boost clock that goes to 4Ghz under load.

http://www.pcgamer.com/intel-i5-8400-review-the-best-new-gaming-cpu-in-years/

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8400 2.8GHz 6-Core Processor ($199.89 @ B&H)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - Z370 HD3 (rev. 1.0) ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($111.49 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($84.88 @ OutletPC)
Total: $396.26
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-11-16 03:16 EST-0500

namdoan93 · Nov 16, 2017

Darkbreeze :

You know, after looking more closely at the real world benchmarks between the 2500k and the i5-7500, you might want want to hold off on that. While there IS some definite gaming performance gain to be had, it's not as as much as I had thought it was for some reason.

You might really want to wait, budget a bit more for the upgrade, and try to go with a Coffee Lake CPU, which is the current Intel platform. There are MUCH better gains to be had than with Kaby Lake, which is last years Intel release. Just a thought, but I'd hate for you to spend 300 bucks to only get maybe a 10-15% performance increase. This might definitely be a much better upgrade.

This could get you, and still probably mostly only in games where you are currently CPU limited, as much as a 30-50% performance gain depending on the game and whether it is one that is well optimized for threaded performance since this has two more cores than your 2500k and a higher boost clock that goes to 4Ghz under load.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8400 2.8GHz 6-Core Processor ($199.89 @ B&H)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - Z370 HD3 (rev. 1.0) ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($111.49 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($84.88 @ OutletPC)
Total: $396.26
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-11-16 03:16 EST-0500

Great!! Yeah lets say I go with this build and want to upgrade to like.. GTX 1080 next year. Will I be able to run it with this combo? also can I salvage my PSU and just use my current one?

Darkbreeze · Nov 16, 2017

Yes, you would be able to run that with this CPU, BUT, you might find yourself CPU limited again in some games because there are some limitations to this CPU such as it's low base clock speed. In games that might use three or four cores, your maximum boost clock will drop, as the 4ghz boost will mainly only remain that high if only one core is needed to be boosted.

That means that if two, three or four cores are under big loads, maximum boost might only 3.2-3.4Ghz, due to the fairly low base clock speed of that chip, and trying to keep up with the GTX 1080 might be a task. In that case, a Coffee lake chip with a higher base clock might be necessary.

Let me ask you this. What resolution do you, or do you plan to, game at? Because this chip would pair much better with a GTX 1070. That would be less likely to leave you unbalanced with a CPU that is good, but perhaps not quite good enough to be balanced with the GPU card you have. Much depends though on the resolution you will be using.

Darkbreeze · Nov 16, 2017

To be honest, unless you can or want to afford a higher tiered CPU to go with a GTX 1080, if you really want to go with that card you might, financially at least, be better off to consider an AMD Ryzen CPU.

If you don't know, AMD has greatly narrowed the margin in core performance between them and Intel with Ryzen, and offers more cores on most their processors now than Intel does, for less money. You could get a very capable 6 or 8 core (WITH additional 6 or 8 hyperthreads that are not offered on the i5 Intel chips) for a 6/12 or 8/16 processor, for a lot less money. I'm an Intel guy myself, but even I have to admit that this new generation of AMD offers much to consider when it comes to bang per dollar these days even though they were sadly far behind for the last four or five years.

nam.doan93 · Nov 28, 2017

Darkbreeze :

Darkbreeze -

This is my future build

Motherboard - [strike]Gigabyte P67A-UD3-B3[/strike] Just bought Gigabyte GA‑H270‑Gaming 3
CPU - i[strike]5-2500K CPU [/strike] Just bought i7-7700k
Memory - [strike]1x8 GB Corsair , 2x2 GB DDR3 (12 gb total)[/strike] Still need to purchase 8 GB DDR4
GPU - GeForce GTX 970 <- salvaging from old computer, saving for 1GTX 080.
SSD - 90 GB <--- salvaging from old computer
PSU - VP630F <-- Salvaging from old computer

My question here is, once I buy my DDR4 memory will I be good to go? Is 630W enough to support my new motherboard / CPU and perhaps an upgrade in the near future for graphics

Darkbreeze · Nov 28, 2017

630w is plenty to support your current GPU card as well as a future GTX 1080. The question is whether that PSU is suitable or not.

Since it's made by Delta, it probably has pretty decent build quality. It has most of the features you like to see including:

Over Current Protection (OCP), Over Power Protection (OPP), Over Voltage Protection (OVP), Short Circuit Protection (SCP), Surge & Inrush Protection (SIP), Under Voltage Protection (UVP)

However, what it does not have is Haswell certification. Since you are going to use a Kaby Lake CPU that employs the C6/C7 Haswell low power states, and that PSU does not support those states since it is a group regulated design, and further does not specify Haswell certification on the product page for the VP630F.

What this means is, this was a decent BUDGET power supply a few years back. Now, it is an older design, and there are some inherent weaknesses in it. One of them is the fact that since it is a group regulated design it will be far more succeptible to crossloading.

Crossloading is when there is a large load on one rail, and a small load on another. If there is a 1A load on the 5V and a 30A load on the 12V, the 12V voltage will plummet. If there is a 20A load on the 5V and a 1A load on the 12V, the 5V voltage will drop out of spec. Usually these extreme loads don't happen, but it's not uncommon for modern 12V based computers to have a comparatively large load on the 12V and only a few amps on the 5V. This may lead to voltage issues on the 12V.

Group regulation is a way for manufacturers to save money. It's acceptable for lower watt PSUs (like 500W and down), but higher watt units should really use indy (independently regulated) because of the higher 12V capacities involved.

Crossloads often lead to out of spec voltages in a group regulated PSU. Alot of group regulated PSU's are also older designs, and for them the 12V heavy load of a modern PC may be crossload situation. Independantly regulated PSU's generally handle crossloads fairly well - cheaper ones will still have significant voltage drops but they almost always stay within the ATX specification.

Additionally, today group regulation is usually used on cheap units, and those units often cut other corners too

Another is that they don't support the low power C states C6/C7 that are used by Haswell and newer (And actually some older models as well, but that's another discussion) Core-i processors. So this PSU CAN be used with your new system, IF you go into the BIOS and turn off the C6/C7 states by disabling them, but given the overall considerations I would not recommend using this power supply with your new hardware any longer than is absolutely necessary, if at all.

nam.doan93 · Nov 28, 2017

Great. Any recommendations on PSU? I think that’s all i need and maybe a new SSD and will be ready to build

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