NZXT H440 New Edition : need advice !

Orpheu5_

Prominent
Nov 23, 2017
25
0
530
Hey guys !

I'm very interested in this case (NZXT H440 New Edition), apparently it has improved airflow but the only reviews I could find are at least 2 years old and I'd like to know if it can bring enough airflow for my next setup :

- i7 8700K (that will be overclocked)
- Noctua NH D15
- Aorus Z370 Gaming 7
- Corsair LPX Vengeance 3000MHz CL15 (that will be overclocked)
- Akasa Cobra 650W PSU
- 1x NVMe, 1x SSD, 3x HDDs

I love the looks of this case and how much drive caddies it has, but I'm a bit worried about the airflow even in this 2015 updated version. Comes with 3 front 120mm fans and 1 rear 120mm fan.
I have 4x120mm fans from my previous Zalman case that I can add there if needed.

Thanks a lot for your insights :)
 
My opinion is that the case is of high quality and will provide enough airflow, however, even with the redesigned airflow I have read that a good many owners report that there are still severe restriction problems under full load conditions which result in either not enough airflow or very undesirable sucking/whining noises from the front panel intake area.

I think your concerns are warranted. It's a great looking case, for a less demanding system, but for the system I see you building I think that the airflow is inadequate and there are much better case options.
 

Orpheu5_

Prominent
Nov 23, 2017
25
0
530
Yeah that's what I was concerned about..
Would you have any particular case in mind ?

I'd like a window, possibly tempered glass but it's hard to find cases with enough clearance for the Noctua (165mm) and enough drive bays at the same time. I've seen great reviews on the Fractal Design Define R5 so I was hesitating between the two for a while but.. I don't know, it looks a little bit on the cheap plasticky side to me. That would be a good alternative though.

Thanks :)
 
Also, and perhaps of more importance, is the quality of the power supply you have selected. You certainly don't want that unit.

Low quality. You WILL have problems with it.


What is your budget for the case and do you have any preferences on things like PSU shroud, tempered glass, RGB, front drive sled locations, etc.?
 

g-unit1111

Titan
Moderator
I have the older model H440 and it's been a good case since I have owned it. I use a Noctua D14 as well and I haven't noticed anything bad about the airflow. It doesn't get super hot after long periods of use. I'm sure the newer model is just minor improvements on the older model which is why you are not finding any reviews of it.
 

Orpheu5_

Prominent
Nov 23, 2017
25
0
530
@darkbreeze : It's the PSU I've been using on my current setup, I agree it's certainly not the best but I'm not sure I can spend another 150€ in a PSU.. That being said it's certainly one of the most important parts so.. Do you think it might fail on me ? Never had any problems but again, my setup can't be OCed (i5 4590, DDR3 RAM, a rig of the past).

As for the case :
- I could spend between 100 and 150€,
- Tempered glass would definitely be a plus,
- PSU shroud as well but if it's not there I won't agonize over it,
- Decent storage capability (at least 3 slots for 3,5" and 3 slots for 2,5" drives), I don't mind their location as long as they're easily removable/adjustable to fit a 305mm GPU,
- Easy cable management and intelligent design would be a plus as well,
- I don't need any optical bays.

@g-unit111 : That's why it's so hard for me to make a choice, I read everything and its opposite xD What is your CPU though ? Do you overclock ? My new build might get pretty hot if not properly cooled outside the CPU fan, the VRM, PCB and PSU might dissipate heat as well.. That's what worries me with enclosed cases like the H440.
 
The demands that one user versus another puts on an identical system might not be the same though. Also, how many case fans do you have installed in your rig G?

I CAN tell you that the Fractal Design Define series are NOT cheap and plasticky. I have the Define S and it's all metal construction except for the front panel. Even on that though, I modded the front panel for full panel airflow. While there MIGHT be plenty of airflow on all of these cases with restricted front panels to not exhibit poor temps, it will be at the cost of a much higher noise level than with units that have full front airflow.

There is no avoiding this and it is simple fact. Fully, or mostly full, open front panel units will cool at an equivalent rate as a restricted front panel model at lower fans speeds due to the decreased restrictions, and will therefore be quieter overall since the fans do not need to run as fast to deliver the same amount of air as ones that are trying to pull though a restriction. Further, restrictions ALWAYS increase noise levels.

Think of the sound an unrestricted river makes flowing through the countryside. Now, throw a small dam across it to restrict the flow and consider the sound it makes flowing past that restriction as a waterfall. Or better yet, take a deep breath and blow it out with your mouth wide open. Now do the same thing with your lips pursed. There will be a notable increase in audible sound level. Same thing here.

Something to read about restrictions and noise levels. This doesn't speak specifically to the restrictions of front panels, but it gives you so insight on how restrictions, even just in the fan grills, can make a big difference.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Effects-of-Grill-Patterns-on-Fan-Performance-Noise-107/
 

Orpheu5_

Prominent
Nov 23, 2017
25
0
530
It definitely makes sense, I thought I could go around it and pay more for looks than airflow, I'm glad I didn't.

If you're talking about my current setup (created at the very beginning of 2015, I didn't know much about computer building at the time) :
- i5 4590
- 24GB RAM DDR3 (2x8 @1866 CL10 / 2x4 @1600 CL9)
- MSI Z97 PC MATE
- Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X OC 4GB
- Akasa 650W PSU (so it's going to be 2 years old very soon)
- Zalman Z3 Plus case

I intend to keep the GPU for my next setup.
I will primarily use it for computer assisted music, I'm a film music composer so I regularly use Cubase and load pretty heavy sessions in there, including a lot of VSTs and plugins that are quite demanding. My current build shows its limits but it's been surprisingly holding up until now. I do a little bit of casual gaming as well, mostly single player games like the Witcher III, Dishonored or online ones like Hearthstone or Overwatch. And of course your regular surfing the web, video/photo editing from time to time but nothing too fancy.

Hope that helps !

P.S : I've seen the Phanteks Enthoo Pro M Tempered Glass case that looks promising in terms of airflow.

EDIT : If my PSU really needs a change after all, would the Corsair CS650 80PLUS Gold or Seasonic FOCUS Plus 650 Gold fit the bill ?

Thanks :)
 
Corsair CS, CX and RS units are not great quality. Corsair CXM, RM, RMi, HX, TX, AX and AXi units are good to great, in the order I listed them. CXM are pretty fair all the way up to the AXi which are outstanding.

So what I can tell you is that you probably want to try and stick with power supplies that sell under the brand names of Seasonic, Super Flower, EVGA, Corsair or Antec, but not ALL of the units by those companies are good. Some models are very good, some are not so good. AND, since you have a Haswell processor you will want one that is "Haswell certified" to support the lower power C states C6/C7 and not all power supplies do.

Seasonic and Super Flower make the best units overall, but some of their older models do not support Haswell low power states so you want something that is newer and does. If the unit says it is a 620w unit, OR says it is a S12II or M12II, and is a Seasonic, Antec or any other brand (IF it's 620w, then it's made by Seasonic) it is an older group regulated design and does not support Haswell low power states. They can still be used, if you go into the BIOS and turn off the C6 and C7 P states, but these are older designs and I really recommend not using them anymore even though they were very good a few years ago.

EVGA G2, G3, P2 or T2 units are good and are based on the Super Flower Leadex Gold, Platinum or Titanium platforms depending on unit. G = Gold, P = Platinum T= Titanium. For our purposes, really anything that is Gold or even Bronze if it's a highly rated unit, is ok. I'd recommend trying to stick to Gold efficiency units but only if it is an otherwise outstanding platform. Not all Silver, Gold, Platinum, etc. are good. There are really crappy Gold rated units out there by various brands.

Seasonic Focus, Prime and G series are good. Super Flower Gold Leadex are good. If you tell me what is available to you, I can tell you if that model is good or not. Or, you can choose from units on the tier list I linked to before, but some of those units might not be good.

For Corsair, you will want to avoid units that are RS, VS or CX.

If they are CXM, TXM, RM, RMi, HX, HXi, AX or AXi then they are good.

Overall I'd say Seasonic has the highest number of excellent units out there now, or ever, but clearly they are not the ONLY company making good units these days.
 

Orpheu5_

Prominent
Nov 23, 2017
25
0
530
I think you misunderstood me or I wasn't clear enough in the first place and I apologize for that (english not being my first language).
You've been talking about the Haswell i5 processor, but this isn't the one I'll be buying a new PSU for, it's the 8700K Coffee Lake for my upcoming build :)
My old i5 rig will be discontinued and probably given to a family member when I get the new one.

My question originally was whether or not I could keep this Akasa 650W from my previous build (the i5 Haswell one) and use it in my upcoming one (the i7 Coffee Lake one) or if I needed to change it altogether and get something a little bit better.

I've seen a Seasonic FOCUS Plus 650 Gold, fully modular at 93€, which seems to be highly praised, what do you think ?
I don't think I'll go higher than that price tbh.
 
Doesn't matter. All of the newer Core-i Intel processors SINCE Haswell, use the same low power C states. If you have any i3, i5 or i7 made since the Haswell processor family was released, then you have the same requirements for compatibility with the C6/C7 low power states.

The Seasonic Focus units, all of them, are very good. Yes, I recommend it.
 

Orpheu5_

Prominent
Nov 23, 2017
25
0
530
Gotcha, I didn't know that. Seagate it is then !
Now onto the case, the very last part..

The Phanteks Ethoo Pro M looks promising but I just saw that you have to pay to get additional HDD caddies (roughly 7$ each) which I find to be a little bit odd, if not outright wrong. It only comes with 2x 3,5" bays and 1x SSD bracket, a bit light and not exactly future proof but I can't see any other model that fits my requirements right now. There is still the Define R5 in the picture but as you mentioned it earlier, while it might have plenty of airflow, the enclosed case could make those fans spin faster to get the same amount of cooling at the expense of silence.
 
Seagate? You mean Seasonic right?

Seagate is hard drives. LOL. No worries, I think I know what you meant.


As for the case, I have several recommendations.

What country ARE you in? I see you expressed budget in Euros, but there are several different EU countries and many of them don't have the same market availability and I know shipping from one EU country to another is usually quite expensive.

Also, not all parts are available in all markets. I guess I'll let you worry about that though.

I think these are all fantastic cases.

SO, these are the cases that I think might be a good fit for the system you have in mind. Obviously, I have no idea of your personal tastes or preferences, but I think any one of these would offer plenty of airflow, features and are of significant quality, to be worth using. As far as what comes with what fans or sleds or whatever, that's something you'll have to look into and just decide if one thing makes it worth more than another.

I don't think you'll have issues with airflow on any of these though.

Fractal Design Define S (I have this case. Great case.) https://www.amazon.de/Fractal-Design-Define-Window-schwarz/dp/B00WGFVQXC/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1511481952&sr=1-1&keywords=Define+S+window


or Define C-TG (Tempered glass) https://www.amazon.de/dp/B074DQMY91/?tag=pcp05-21

Corsair Carbide 400C https://www.amazon.de/Corsair-CC-9011081-WW-Seitenfenster-Midi-Tower-Computer/dp/B017XPP9KK/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1511482022&sr=1-1&keywords=Carbide+400c

Air 540 https://www.amazon.de/Corsair-Carbide-Computer-Dual-Kammer-geeignet/dp/B00D6GINF4/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1511482054&sr=1-1&keywords=air+540

Crystal 460x https://www.amazon.de/Corsair-Crystal-Kompakt-Midi-Tower-geh%C3%A4rtetem/dp/B01LA2LB7W/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1511482090&sr=1-1&keywords=crystal+460x

Thermaltake View 31 TG https://www.amazon.de/Thermaltake-View-Tempered-Glass-PC-Geh%C3%A4use/dp/B01N35OJNB/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1511482138&sr=1-1&keywords=view+31+TG

Be Quiet Base 800 https://www.amazon.de/quiet-Silent-Computer-Geh%C3%A4use-Fenster/dp/B010Q80XRA/ref=sr_1_3?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1511482352&sr=1-3&keywords=base+800
 

Orpheu5_

Prominent
Nov 23, 2017
25
0
530
My god, I actually wrote Seagate what the hell xD For some reason their logo popped in my head while thinking about Seasonic, my bad on this one.
I will definitely check those cases out, I know a few of them by name having spent some time digging but it's good to have some guidance and narrow the selection down ! You were a tremendous help man, I really appreciate it.

I'm from France btw, I'm pretty sure I won't have any problem finding these online, pretty much all of them are available - or else I'll just check on Amazon, what is NOT on Amazon these days. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )

 

g-unit1111

Titan
Moderator


I have 7 - 1 x 140mm rear exhaust (NZXT), 2 x 140mm top fans (Cougar), and 2 x 140mm front fans (NZXT). Plus the two Cougar fans installed on my Noctua D14.
 
Yeah, that's a pretty good number of fans for a single rig. You know, if G-unit says his setup is quiet, I kind of have to take his word for it even though I've seen a lot of guys saying their H440's are loud, so you might still consider it, I dunno.

Personally, out of all of those, I really do like the Air 540 but I wish it was tempered glass instead of acrylic and I like the Corsair Crystal 460x as well.

I was thinking though, that those cases were only the ones showing on PC Part picker for the EU region, and there are probably a whole lot more out there that are not listed on their database. I'm going to take a look at a few more possibilities, because it looks like there are some really nice, much improved cases out in the last six months or so and I haven't really been looking into them much lately so there might be a few other really good choices open to you that we haven't looked at.

I'll do that when I get up later, it's been a long day what with it being Thanksgiving here and all. Another thing to consider too is how many fans did those folks who have complained about their cases makes noise. In reality, the more fans that are installed, the LESS noise the system will make unless it's all running full bore, because three fans running at a low speed of like 500rpm, which is going to be fairly quiet, will move just as much air as one speed screaming along at it's full speed of 1300-1500rpm, depending on the fan of course.

So if you have every fan location filled you may seldom even see a need for them to be running at full speed depending on your setup and how you have the fan curve configured.
 

Orpheu5_

Prominent
Nov 23, 2017
25
0
530
Would you recommend any reasonably priced fans for the Define C TG for example ? It only comes with 2 and if I'm correct they're not PWM so that will be noisy.

I have 4 of these from my previous case, will it be enough even though they're not top tier fans ?



@darkbreeze Just saw your message, it's okay I won't buy the rig right now so there's still plenty of time to find a decent solution :)
The only thing I wouldn't want to do is to buy additional fans, as most of them are quite pricy per unit and I'm already around 1700€ without the case. Hence my Zalman crappy fans question.

Thank you guys !

EDIT : The only cases I could find in my price range on several french websites are the Fractal Design Define C TG, the Phanteks Enthoo Pro M TG and the Corsair 460X. The Corsair 460X RGB version is way beyond what I'm comfortable with (170€), so is the Carbide Air 540 (150€). I'll keep digging.

So the list right now would look like this :
For TGs :
- Fractal Design Define C TG : 99.90€
- Phanteks Enthoo Pro M TG : 111.95€
- Corsair 460X : 101.95€

For non-TGs :
- NZXT H440 : 129.95€
- Corsair Carbide 400C Windowed : 93.95€
- Fractal Design Define R5 ? : 124.90€

I wished the S340 Elite would take my Noctua cooler in, it's definitely a gorgeous case. Sorry about the long post.
 
So, just need to clear up a misconception.

Not having PWM fans does not mean that they are running full speed in ALL cases. What matters is what they are connected to. 4 pin fans are always either voltage controlled or pulse width modulation controlled, and are USUALLY PWM controlled. 3 pin fans can either be full time, full speed, OR voltage controlled. It depends upon the fan header they are connected to.

MOST, but not ALL, modern motherboards have PWM headers for the fan connections and especially for the CPU fan. There are some with a combination of PWM and voltage controlled 3 pin headers and there are even a few motherboards that still have the full power PWR_FAN headers on them but there are not a lot of these anymore.

The fan has little to do with how the fan speed is controlled EXCEPT to the extent that if they are three pin they cannot be PWM controlled AND there are some earlier 4 pin fans that were still voltage controlled and had motors that were not compatible with PWM signals. Nearly all 4 pin fans these days are compatible with PWM control signals and all 3 pin fans that I'm aware of can be speed controlled via a higher or lower voltage.

All of this is controlled either by the motherboard integrated fan control circuit which can be adjusted from within the BIOS or from an add on fan controller that can be purchased in either PWM, voltage control or a combination of the two. These are especially useful on motherboards that do not have enough fan headers for all the fan locations and in cases where you may want to run two fans on the CPU cooler but do not want to use a splitter off the CPU_FAN header and there is no CPU_OPT secondary CPU fan header.

Many cases also have fan hubs for this purpose and those usually take power via either a 4 pin molex or SATA connector and allow you to split one motherboard fan header signal into two or more, usually up to as much as six or eight, independent fans.

So I wouldn't worry too much about that. Whether 3 pin voltage or 4 pin PWM, fans do not have to be running at full speed unless directed to do so by whatever fan curve or profile you assign, or if temperatures exceed normal levels.

Do you happen to know what the model/part number of those Zalman fans is? Are they three or four pin fans?




These look to all be available in France

https://www.amazon.fr/Corsair-CC-9011081-WW-Carbide-Fen%C3%AAtr%C3%A9-Performant/dp/B017XPP9KK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1511566844&sr=8-1&keywords=carbide+clear+400c

https://www.amazon.fr/Corsair-Boitier-Obsidian-Moyen-CC-9011049-WW/dp/B00I6BJ8MQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1511567006&sr=1-1&keywords=obsidian+450d

https://www.amazon.fr/Phanteks-Enthoo-Evolv-Glass-Argent/dp/B01F0KVP2Q/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1511567057&sr=1-1&keywords=enthoo+evolv+atx

https://www.amazon.fr/Phanteks-PH-ES515PTG_SWT-Alimentation-PC/dp/B074Q5MFX5/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1511567254&sr=1-1&keywords=enthoo+Pro+M+tempered+glass

https://www.amazon.fr/Thermaltake-Suppressor-Window-Bo%C3%AEtier-Noir/dp/B015SECQHM/ref=sr_1_2?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1511567353&sr=1-2&keywords=suppressor+F31

https://www.amazon.fr/Fractal-design-define-window-noir/dp/B00WGFVQXC/ref=sr_1_2?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1511567451&sr=1-2&keywords=define+S

 

Orpheu5_

Prominent
Nov 23, 2017
25
0
530
Hey there, thanks for the heads up.
I've been doing some digging and I was able to get some info about the 3-pin and 4-pin fans which cleared up some of my doubts after my previous post. I think the Zalman fan model is this one :

Regarding the case, I think I'll head towards the Corsair 460X which seems like a perfect fit for me, it has almost everything I could ask for. A little light on the HDD bays but I can live with it.

For the fans though, I was able to find a pretty incredible deal with a pack of 5 Arctic PWM fans for 23€. That sounds like some kind of trap I know, but I've been reading some reviews on them and turns out they are highly praised by consumers, being 4-pin fans, really quiet and providing very decent airflow.

These are in the 5-pack : Arctic F12 PWM PST Rev 2.0
https://shop.hardware.fr/fiche/AR201701200110.html

What do you think ? Seems like a pretty good deal to me, case + fans at 124.90€, especially when I didn't want to pay too much for fans in the first place. I was originally thinking about buying the same ones already installed in the case (Corsair Air Series AF140 White Quiet Edition High Airflow) but a lot of reviews are basically saying that they are crap, loud and pricy (~17€ each).
 
There are only two slightly negative aspects of the fan we noticed. Firstly, it’s significantly fatter than most fans which could cause compatibility issues. Secondly, the unusual enclosure doesn’t have screw holes on both sides which means it can only be used as an exhaust fan

This is likely because it has a very low static pressure and will not perform well as an intake or heatsink fan on a cooler. You won't be able to use those in the case front intake locations.
 
So, I cannot find a static pressure specification for the ARCTIC F12 PWM Rev.2 fans. That is USUALLY an indication that the static pressure is poor and they don't want anybody picking on that fact because it will reflect on sales. Since the PRO version of the same fan DOES list a low static pressure specification on the reviews I looked at, I would assume the non-Pro version also has low static pressure which means they are not going to be a good choice for an intake, radiator or heatsink fan. They will struggle unless there are more exhaust fans than intake fans. If you have two top mounted exhaust fans plus one rear exhaust fan, then having two or even three of these in front would be ok.

As long as it is an equal or negative pressure arrangement, meaning equal fans in an out, or more fans out than in, they would be ok. To have three of these up front with only two exhaust fans would not work well.

Let me check on some fans for you as well. This is an area I tend to specialize and gravitate to, including doing some fan testing, so I have a few ideas.
 

Orpheu5_

Prominent
Nov 23, 2017
25
0
530
Noted, I'm still not very familiar with static pressure, magnetic levitation and all that. There's a lot of things to consider and this is the thing I haven't been getting a lot of info about. My head is still a mess after reading about VRMs and Mosfets the past few days, when I was looking for a good mobo.

Gonna try to find out about static pressure for the Arctics, let me know what else you can find on your end when you have some time to do so. Thanks ! :)

EDIT : Spec sheet indicates the following :
• Extremely quiet with low noise impeller
High airflow and static pressure
• Fluid dynamic bearing ensures extended lifespan
• PWM Plug

This might be commercial junk but worth considering. I'll try to find more.

Static pressure is 2.45 mm H2O at max RPM according to Arctic direct themselves
https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions/Tx3VS7JHY6X2990/ref=ask_ql_ql_al_hza