amd fx-9370 it runs without a water cooler, I am using my stock 8350 heatsink/fan

Panicsferd · Dec 9, 2017

I am posting this here, it really isn't a question but to let other people know that this CPU isn't as hot as they say and for me it is working on my stock 8350 heatsink/fan.

Backstory is my brother bought this pre-built tower from someone that had some parts he wanted to upgrade his PC... it had the new MB that supports that fx-9370 and the CPU itself. My brother took a few of the parts that he wanted: RAM, PSU, and GPU. But then gave me the case, the MB and CPU, he also took the water cooler that was in the case.

I then decided to just hook up my stock 8350 heatsink/fan and behold it was working and my highest temps for the CPU underload was 68c, my GPU was running like 71-72c.

Images:

I also just have the three default fans that came with the case.

Specs:
Corsair 780T Graphite Black Case
ASUS Crosshair V Formula-Z
FX-9370 4.4Ghz (I think OCed to 4.7?)
Gigabyte 7870 GHz OC Edition 2GBs
CoolerMaster 650w 80+ Gold PSU
8GBs 1600 RAM
70GB HDD (WIndows)
1TB HDD(Applications/Data)

Darkbreeze · Dec 9, 2017

Well, I find that pretty hard to swallow considering the hundreds of systems we've seen on here with six case fans and the biggest air coolers made, PLUS DIY VRM coolers rigged up, that still can't keep thermals in check even with the highest end boards money can buy.

While that Crosshair IS pretty much among the top five boards you could ever have purchased for that platform, seems unrealistic. I'd be a lot more believing if you weren't using HWmonitor, which we KNOW to be completely untrustworthy and commonly misreports a variety of chipsets including the 990FX and 990x chipsets almost singularly poorly. Download HWinfo, run "sensors only", scroll to the core sensor values, take an idle screenshot, then take another set of screenshots with the CPU under a full load and post those screenshots here.

Until I see those results, I have no choice but to call BS because I've worked with these enough to know what they do. There is a really good chance that the only reason you are seeing those temps is because the cores are already throttling which is reducing the thermal status to what you are seeing, but I'm somewhat doubtful of that too.

Plus with your GPU temp at only 58° you can be doing much of anything thats even remotely demanding. I'd also like to know what model of Cooler Master power supply you're running.

Panicsferd · Dec 9, 2017

Darkbreeze :

Well what I was using myself is AMD overdrive and when I was in GTAV my thermial margin was between 10-15c, I think am going to stop using HWMonitor since I noticed the package temp thing is kind of glitcy, sometimes it would read like a 96c, or sometimes like a 126c. I dont think it was running that hot.

Here is my PSU: http://www.coolermaster.com/powersupply/modular-vs-series/v650s/

edit: what are some good alternatives to use then for checking temps, ill stick with amd over drive for cpu, but kind of want maybe another one.

Panicsferd · Dec 9, 2017

I just realized, this was when I trying out the GTX 660 TI, which wasn't as good and ran hotter then my 7870. My brother was going to give me the Nvidia card if it was better then what I already had.

But now I have the 7870 and when I did some benchmarks on Arma 3, XCOM2, ARK, the 7870 came on top each game.

Darkbreeze · Dec 9, 2017

Panicsferd :

YES, it WAS running that hot. That's the problem with these processors. They ALWAYS run that hot unless you have big water cooling or big air. Even then, they are still a MAJOR problem for the voltage regulation components like the VRMs and Northbridge. Even when the CPU temperature is controlled enough to not exceed thermal specs, often the VRMs STILL throttle due to excessive heat through the voltage regulation module.

Yeah, that's a good power supply. I'm surprised. Most of Cooler masters power supplies are not actually very good. The V series units ARE though. It MIGHT be good enough. Usually we recommend at least a really good 750w unit. AMD recommends an 850-1000w unit with any of the FX-9370 or 9590 CPUs, but that's generally because most people use crappy power supplies and think that wattage is the factor that is most important, which it is not. The quality of the unit is ALL that matters, wattage is secondary to quality.

Do us both a favor, and download HWinfo, install it and run "sensors only" like I said.

**Download HWinfo here**

Or even better, and more accurate, install CoreTemp. HWinfo and CoreTemp are more accurate and have better compatibility with a broader range of chipsets than any other utilities that I'm aware of.

***Download CoreTemp here***

Run either HWinfo or CoreTemp after installating. If CoreTemp then just take a screenshot of the CoreTemp window. If HWinfo, then scroll down the sensors until you find the core temperature readings and take a screenshot of those. Do this at idle with nothing else running except the utility.

Next, run whatever utility or game you like to use that loads the CPU up fairly high and take screenshots while that is running of the sensor readings again. Post screenshots of both here and then we'll actually have someplace to start trying to solve your issue from. Because I GUARANTEE that you DO have an issue running that stock cooler. The FX-8350 cooler is only, and barely, capable of cooling up to about 125w TDP. The FX-9370 is a 220w TDP processor.

Panicsferd · Dec 9, 2017

Darkbreeze :

Panicsferd :

YES, it WAS running that hot. That's the problem with these processors. They ALWAYS run that hot unless you have big water cooling or big air. Even then, they are still a MAJOR problem for the voltage regulation components like the VRMs and Northbridge. Even when the CPU temperature is controlled enough to not exceed thermal specs, often the VRMs STILL throttle due to excessive heat through the voltage regulation module.

Yeah, that's a good power supply. I'm surprised. Most of Cooler masters power supplies are not actually very good. The V series units ARE though. It MIGHT be good enough. Usually we recommend at least a really good 750w unit. AMD recommends an 850-1000w unit with any of the FX-9370 or 9590 CPUs, but that's generally because most people use crappy power supplies and think that wattage is the factor that is most important, which it is not. The quality of the unit is ALL that matters, wattage is secondary to quality.

Do us both a favor, and download HWinfo, install it and run "sensors only" like I said.

**Download HWinfo here**

Or even better, and more accurate, install CoreTemp. HWinfo and CoreTemp are more accurate and have better compatibility with a broader range of chipsets than any other utilities that I'm aware of.

***Download CoreTemp here***

Run either HWinfo or CoreTemp after installating. If CoreTemp then just take a screenshot of the CoreTemp window. If HWinfo, then scroll down the sensors until you find the core temperature readings and take a screenshot of those. Do this at idle with nothing else running except the utility.

Next, run whatever utility or game you like to use that loads the CPU up fairly high and take screenshots while that is running of the sensor readings again. Post screenshots of both here and then we'll actually have someplace to start trying to solve your issue from. Because I GUARANTEE that you DO have an issue running that stock cooler. The FX-8350 cooler is only, and barely, capable of cooling up to about 125w TDP. The FX-9370 is a 220w TDP processor.

Here is the HWinfo temps from just having chrome and hwinfo open.

Here is the temps after running GTAV

bignastyid · Dec 9, 2017

What happens if you run a stress test like prime95 that tests all 8 threads?

Panicsferd · Dec 9, 2017

bignastyid :

I'll have to download that then, also here was my core temp readings as well

Idle (with chrome and just coretemp):

Underload:

Panicsferd · Dec 9, 2017

I Just did the Prime95 and it got to like 76c and I Then stopped it, didn't want to wait till the PC just shut down.

Here is a video if it in action, I had nothing running besides that in coretemp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9Y4lv1rkaw

Edit: I did it before 76c, since I remember my past 8350 when it would reach 80c PC would shut down.

Darkbreeze · Dec 9, 2017

So, you either have the turbo core features turned off OR you have the clock rate set to 4.4Ghz full time, is that right? Because with some of the cores up around 90% and some down around only 40%, at least ONE of those cores should be boosting up past 4.4Ghz and none of them are.

Also, none of them are dropping down when there is no load. So that means either you have the processor power profile set to 100% min and 100% max in the advanced power options OR you have Cool n Quiet turned off in the bios. Or you have the clock rate set to 4.4Ghz in the bios and the turbo features turned off.

Personally, I still say that's astonishingly good, practically unbelievable, for a 9xxx series chip with a stock cooler. I still have some doubts I just am not sure what to base them on at this point. I'd probably recommend going into the advanced power profile though and setting the minimum processor state under processor power management to 5% and leave the max at 100%. That's in the control panel power options, and then under advanced power settings.

Further, while that's almost singularly unbelievable, and frankly I don't know how that could be possible, I don't think that will hold up to any extended use that really loads the CPU. Download Prime95 version 26.6, and ONLY version 26.6, and run the Small FFT option for fifteen minutes. If the temperature does not exceed 80-85°C at any point during that time, then you have managed to obtain the best CPU sample of any FX chip I've ever seen in my entire life, because even my FX-8320 which was cranked up to 4.6Ghz@1.35v HAD to have an aftermarket cooler to achieve that. With the stock cooler, even on a Sabertooth board, my thermals were higher than yours appear to be.

Get Prime95 26.6 here and run Small FFT for 15 minutes. Keep Core temp open the whole time and take screenshots at about 7 minutes in and then just before you close Prime at 15 minutes.

http://windows-downloads-center.blogspot.com/2011/04/prime95-266.html

Darkbreeze · Dec 9, 2017

You ran Blend mode, NOT Small FFT. Big difference. And you don't need to be so sketchy. It's not going to instantly explode or anything. You don't need to worry until it gets past 85°C. If it gets to 85°C then stop the workers and close Prime.

Panicsferd · Dec 9, 2017

Darkbreeze :

So, you either have the turbo core features turned off OR you have the clock rate set to 4.4Ghz full time, is that right? Because with some of the cores up around 90% and some down around only 40%, at least ONE of those cores should be boosting up past 4.4Ghz and none of them are.

Also, none of them are dropping down when there is no load. So that means either you have the processor power profile set to 100% min and 100% max in the advanced power options OR you have Cool n Quiet turned off in the bios. Or you have the clock rate set to 4.4Ghz in the bios and the turbo features turned off.

Personally, I still say that's astonishingly good, practically unbelievable, for a 9xxx series chip with a stock cooler. I still have some doubts I just am not sure what to base them on at this point. I'd probably recommend going into the advanced power profile though and setting the minimum processor state under processor power management to 5% and leave the max at 100%. That's in the control panel power options, and then under advanced power settings.

Further, while that's almost singularly unbelievable, and frankly I don't know how that could be possible, I don't think that will hold up to any extended use that really loads the CPU. Download Prime95 version 26.6, and ONLY version 26.6, and run the Small FFT option for fifteen minutes. If the temperature does not exceed 80-85°C at any point during that time, then you have managed to obtain the best CPU sample of any FX chip I've ever seen in my entire life, because even my FX-8320 which was cranked up to 4.6Ghz@1.35v HAD to have an aftermarket cooler to achieve that. With the stock cooler, even on a Sabertooth board, my thermals were higher than yours appear to be.

Get Prime95 26.6 here and run Small FFT for 15 minutes. Keep Core temp open the whole time and take screenshots at about 7 minutes in and then just before you close Prime at 15 minutes.

http://windows-downloads-center.blogspot.com/2011/04/prime95-266.html

Yeah I haven't messed with bios that much, since only had this for maybe a day now, but maybe the bios were tweaked by the person we bought it from?

I do have it set to run at 100% for both minimal processing and maximum and I have it set to the high performance mode as well.

edit: after changing it to 5%, it is still at 4413, so maybe something in the bios is keeping it at 4.4ghz always?

Darkbreeze · Dec 9, 2017

Could be. I'd go into the bios and make sure that Cool n quiet is enabled. That will help with overall CPU temps during normal use and will probably extend the life of both your cpu and motherboard.

Would still like to see either the screenshots or the video clip of you running Prime95 again, but in Small FFT. Blend is useless because it tests mostly memory, and it often allocates more memory than what the system actually has so it has to allocate some virtual memory in order to run. What that does is create a need to read and write data from the hard drive which in turn allows the CPU to sit idle doing nothing while it's reading from or writing to disk, rather than performing under a steady state workload.

That is the only way you are going to find out whether it will hold up under extended conditions like seriously gaming for long periods of time. But, I guess that's up to you.

Darkbreeze · Dec 9, 2017

Something weird about your screenshots too. Why am I seeing a ton of desktop icons in one screenshot, and almost none in the next one. Looks pretty suspicious to me. Also, looks like a VM window over the regular desktop.

Panicsferd · Dec 9, 2017

Darkbreeze :

I am using print screen to print and and since I have a duel monitor setup, my main monitor is 1080p, my secondary is 900p. it is taking both monitors when I printscreen it.

USAFRet · Dec 9, 2017

Panicsferd :

ALT-PRTSC captures only the active window. Not the whole screen or dualscreen.

Panicsferd · Dec 10, 2017

Darkbreeze :

Cool n Quiet was disabled by CPU in the bios, I enabled it and then I launched Prime95 with the Small FFT test, I also changed that power option to 5% on minimal processor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFgOwjo6Blw&feature=youtu.be

Panicsferd · Dec 10, 2017

Update: Well so far with playing a quite a few demanding games I noticed that in some games there can be like a spike where my CPU will rise to like 75-80 but then quickly go back down to like high 60s. I already ordered a Water Cooler that was on sale for like 50, its a cooler master ML Lite 240 and It might not arrive here till a week or more.

I think so far I should be fine since I noticed this CPU must be able to get a bit hotter then my last CPU (8350) since so far it hasn't gotten to the point where it was overheating and shutting down... so I think I should be okay till my water cooler arrives... but I guess if you want it to stay cool and if you want to overclock this CPU then you will definitely need a water cooler.

Darkbreeze · Dec 11, 2017

Definitely need a better cooler. I stopped watching once it hit 80. That was the end for me. Once it hit 80 as quickly as it did I knew there were thermal issues. Also, the CPU temps are not the only concern. You will want to run Prime with HWinfo open to the motherboard thermal sensors too and see what those do. VRM throttling is an even bigger concern with FX 9 series due to the high amount of power used by those CPUs. Honestly, considering what you got this for price wise, I'd just manually set your multiplier to 4.5Ghz in the bios, set your voltage to 1.35v, turn OFF AMD Turbo core in the bios, leave Cool N Quiet turned on along with your power setting, retest with Prime after you get your new cooler and call it a day.

TJ Hooker · Dec 11, 2017

I thought the max safe temp for AMD FX chips was like sixty-something celsius.

Panicsferd · Dec 11, 2017

Darkbreeze :

Yeah that is what I will plan on doing... I am just shocked that it is able to at least run and able to play games an the like with just my old stock cooler, since before I got this I was reading online that people kept saying it was a volcano and needed water cooling... so figured I might not even be able to boot it up if it was that bad.

I was just thankful that I was able to actually I guess run and boot it, since figured if it needed a water cooler then I would be out of a pc till I can buy one.

Darkbreeze · Dec 11, 2017

No. 68°C is maximum safe NORMAL operating temperature. 90°C is shut down temp. Anything over 80°C will start throttling. There is no official AMD specification on this because AMD recommends using their predetermined distance to Tjmax specification which does not have an actual translation to C or F. Only they know what the spec is really and it is different for each model.

Under full, all core, stress testing, I've not seen ANY cores throttle at 80°C or lower, so that is the spec I go with. If, by design, a CPU does not throttle at a given temp, then I would assume for the sake of short term stability and thermal testing that that "temp" (Which is probably not an accurate depiction of true core temp anyhow") could be considered relevant for the purpose of determining thermal limit and envelope.

For FX 8 and 9 series chips you do not want to operate in a continuous envelope above 78-80°C for testing or above 68°C for normal operation under application or gaming loads. At least, that's what I've found. This is exactly why they recommend, in applications like CoreTemp, that you go into the options and change the thermal readings from spec to distance to tjmax. Then, you don't want to see thermals that come within 10°C of distance to Tjmax, pretty much at all during full stress testing, or within 20°C of distance to Tjmax at all, during regular usage.

Darkbreeze · Dec 11, 2017

Honestly I don't even agree that they need water cooling. Water cooling really doesn't even do ANYTHING at all for the voltage regulation components. VRMs, Northbridge, etc., don't get any benefits of water cooling unless you are using a mono-block that also cools them and you must have an open loop configuration to do that.

Personally, I think these systems, if used at all, benefit MORE from a big air cooler, because then the voltage regulation components at LEAST get some residual cooling from the air passing over or around them from the fan on the CPU cooler. I'd suggest ditching the idea of water cooling and going with a big air cooler. It's less expensive and probably does a better job than any of the AIO liquid coolers on these configurations where CPU temps are not the only, or even primary, concern.

Something like the Noctua NH-U14S, NH-D14 or D15, Cryorig H5 or R1, Be Quiet Dark rock 3 or Dark rock Pro 3, Phanteks TC14PE or higher, Thermalright Macho or Silver arrow, Scythe Mugen 4 or 5 or Reeven Justice or Ouranos would probably work fine.

Even a Cryorig H7 or Deepcool Gammaxx 400 would be better than what you have though, but I would not recommending using a low end cooler like those.

Panicsferd · Dec 11, 2017

Darkbreeze :

I know that, that you want it under 68c, I was just saying I was surprised that it was able to work with just the stock cooler and not run to hot that the pc was going to actually shut off via overheating.

I will have to redownload HWMonitor since I decided to reinstall windows and start fresh to reinstall the drivers for my new hardware and I think it was time to do a fresh install of windows as well. But I will once I get the water cooler, could be a week or more. Rerun these tests and see how it goes.

Darkbreeze · Dec 11, 2017

I'm mostly responding to TJhooker on the thermal clarification. Definitely though, recheck the board thermals after the cooling change. I suspect you will find there are borderline or over spec thermals on the voltage regulation components when using air since you will completely eliminate any residual airflow in the area of the VRMs and Northbridge using water cooling. Making sure there are exhaust fans at the back and at the top just above the VRMs in the case might help a little bit to mitigate that if you are front mounting the radiator. Otherwise, I'd just about guarantee this will become an issue.

Even a stock cooler offers some slight airflow in that area compared to water cooled which has none. Alternatively, there is a Cryorig water cooler that has a waterblock mounted fan that can be pointed in various directions including towards the area of the VRMs. That could be an option too if you haven't already ordered the cooler or can cancel it. Your choice though.

amd fx-9370 it runs without a water cooler, I am using my stock 8350 heatsink/fan

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