Used i7-6700k or i5 8600k/8700 ?

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Mastersaofan

Mastersaofan

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Its time for me to upgrade. I really believe that given the circumstances, its the best time for me to shelf out some money to improve my pc. Regardless of cost to performance ratio, I think upgrading would justify my future needs as well in the long run.

My current rig

i7-3770 (bought this used) upgrade from i5-2400
Zotac GTX 1070 Amp Extreme
120GB SSD A-DATA
2 TB HDD
8GB RAM
Silverstone Tundra AIO

PC usage: Minimal multitasking (non-multi threaded related stuff) and Gaming @1080 and sometimes 4k (TV)

So far, I am actually happy with my PC. I get good fps and performance on 1080p and the work I do gets done well. On 4k, I am happy with the FPS I get which is from 45-50fps depending on the game.

The thing is, I was offered an i7-6700k for $237. Which is a good price since its a few bucks more significantly brand new and they don't sell skylake where I am from anymore.

then again, moving up an generation I'd have to get a new motherboard and RAM. This I am well aware of and which would cost me a lot of money. Money I am willing so spend as long as I know which combo is the most "worth it" for what's its worth.

would it just be better to invest on an i5 8600k?
or just forget overclocking and settle for an i7-8700?

will I really get more out of my CPU if I overclock it?

Thank you.

 
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Darkbreeze
Yep, I agree, getting unmatched memory to work together has a fairly decent 60-80% of the time success factor, but that 20-40% of the time when it doesn't work can result in MUCH frustration due to usually loss of investment as it's hard to sell or return the incompatible memory without either losing a portion of your investment on restocking fees or shipping, if they will take it back at all especially if it's used.

Also, time wasted trying to get it to work and frustration from it not working if in the end you are unable to.

I also disagree that the investment from Ivy bridge to Coffee lake are not worth it. Depending on your expectations and needs, it may be very much worth it for both gaming or non-gaming. If all you do is browse...
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herrwizo

herrwizo

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Actually, I'd simply stay with your nice i7 3770, since the difference in performance, even to 8th gen is honestly not worth it. Not for your usage scenario anyway. As you noticed, you have to buy the cpu, mobo and RAM, and don't forget that you can potentially even have issues (always a chance when swapping hardware, especially used) which in the end might cost you not only money, but also time and nerves. All that for virtually no performance gain? Nah.

If anything, I'd get more RAM (upgrade to 16GB), and potentially a larger SSD if this small one is full already or being close to it.

Keep the rest of your rig, it is great, regardless of having an "old" CPU. Heck, i'd say the same even if you had i7 2600. (good thing you upgraded from i5 2400, though).
 
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Darkbreeze

Darkbreeze

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It would be much better to go with one of the Coffee lake skus. Even the i5-8400 is capable enough for very high end gaming and applications with it's very strong six cores that have a max all core turbo of about 3.8Ghz. Reviews show that in any kind of gaming load cores tend to not drop below about 3.7Ghz at all.

So that's a really good option and even that CPU kicks the crap out of my Skylake 6700k@4.6Ghz if there is even reasonably good multithreaded support. On anything that uses fewer cores, not so much, but those games are going to start disappearing rapidly as most game engines are currently being refocused on multi core/high thread performance.

The i7-8700 is a good choice since it has the same strong cores as the rest of the Coffee lake skus, has a very reasonable base and boost clock configuration and has those extra hyper threads. If you multitask much while gaming with things like live streaming or recording, you'll appreciate those additional cores and hyperthreads a great deal.

This late in the game I'd never recommend a Skylake upgrade unless you were on a much older platform, like you are, and the cost of the CPU was in the neighborhood of half the price. Considering you'd need a new board AND DDR4 memory, it makes no sense at all going that way.
 
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herrwizo

herrwizo

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Just to quote one very important sentence from the OP again:



Virtually no point in upgrading at all, regardless of platform and generation. If he had an i5, that would be different story. If he liked to stream, encode, render and edit videos, that would be a different story as well. But not for this usage scenario.

 
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Mastersaofan

Mastersaofan

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I have thought about this a lot. Even thought about getting a used board with 4 RAM slots, since mine only has 2. My motherboard is so old it doesn't even have a socket for the USB front header modern cases have.

To be honest, if I had the option to upgrade to 16GB ram, I'd call it a day. But this is also one of the things I am having problems with. I am always running out of ram with the things I do with my PC.
 
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Mastersaofan

Mastersaofan

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I don't do streaming or encoding, nothing heavy like that.

I teach English online and sometimes I like to play a game on the background while waiting for my students. The software I use is really RAM hungry and the game also uses a lot of ram as well. (Black desert online) it is also said that this game benefits on multicore cpu's but that isn't confirmed yet.


 
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Mastersaofan

Mastersaofan

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Thanks for this. I needed this kind of answer to get my head out of the gutter. The used price on that i7-6700k really tempted be. Thinking i'd save money if I got it but in the long run it won't do me any good.
 
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Mastersaofan

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I totally understand what you're saying, although I was thinking of just getting my rig "up to date" since I was offered a good deal on a used CPU. I agree that it wouldn't make a huge difference to upgrade but I kinda just wanted to get it out of the way sooner or later.

Ryzen 2 and cannon lake are coming out but they aren't going to be any cheaper unfortunately.
 
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SkyNetRising

SkyNetRising

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So get 2x 8GB DDR3 and be done. :)
Also for USB3 connectivity you can get PCIE USB3 addon card.

Those options would certainly cost less than full platform upgrade.

4-Port-USB-3-0-PCIE-PCI-Express-Control-Card-Adapter-20pin-to-2-port-usb3.jpg
 
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Mastersaofan

Mastersaofan

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Good point.

I'll have a hard time selling my current ram kit but, it would be much cheaper option, yes.
Am I not really missing out on the 6 cores, higher clock and new mobo features?
 
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guanyu210379

guanyu210379

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You will indeed see an upgrade if you go from I7 3770 to I7 6700k, 7700k or 8700k.
The thing is however, the cost you are going to spend can not really justify the performance jump you will get in my opinion, especially mainly for gaming.
I would rather upgrade on other parts e.g. add bigger SSD, get new GPU, more RAM, etc....or even simply postpone the upgrade plan to the future...see what new tech will come and bring us.
Unless your 3770 is dying, I would not spend any money for platform upgrade.

I am also still on E3-1231V3 (kinda of I7 4770 without iGPU). I almost hit the buy button 3x this year on Ryzen 7 1700, Threadripper 1950 and I7 8700k but...after some thinking...I dropped this plan for now despite of knowing that, what I do (mainly not gaming), will benefit of having those extra cores.
 
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Darkbreeze

Darkbreeze

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I get what these guys, and others like them are saying but honestly continuously spending money on old platforms just seems like a waste to me.

If you DO upgrade, and I'm not necessarily saying that for YOU it's a foregone conclusion that it's needed, but if you do, not moving to the newest platform seems like a bad decision. If you're going to spend that kind of money you might as well move as far forward as you can instead of dropping a bunch of cash on something that's ALREADY almost end of life.

And there are clear differences in performance when the only limiting factor is the CPU. If there wasn't, nobody would every upgrade anything other than their graphics card. At 1080p with a GTX 1070, I really doubt the GPU card is holding you back at all.
 
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Mastersaofan

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I just checked the price of DDR3 Ram, G.Skill Ripjaws X 2x8gb 1600 16gb CL9 (F3 1600C9D 16GXM)
its almost at $160.

its a lot of money for me to spend on a rig that I know is "good" for now, but how far in the future can I still use my CPU+mobo anyway
 
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Mastersaofan

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Its an old low end board, only dual channel RAM. and I am using 4gb x2 unfortunately.
 
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theonerm2

theonerm2

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I paid US $67.99 for my 16GB kit of RAM last year. RAM prices are crazy now. So I wouldn't upgrade the RAM just yet anyway.

Here's the thing. You said yourself that you're happy with your PC.

"PC usage: Minimal multitasking (non-multi threaded related stuff) and Gaming @1080 and sometimes 4k (TV)

So far, I am actually happy with my PC. I get good fps and performance on 1080p and the work I do gets done well. On 4k, I am happy with the FPS I get which is from 45-50fps depending on the game."

So why mess with a good thing? Why waste hundreds of dollars on something that is just going to be the same for you? Sure it might last a few more years if you upgrade. If you upgrade anything get a GTX 1080 ti. It'll work wonders for you at 4K but you'll be CPU bottlenecked a lot at 1080p and even some at 1440p. But I'll be honest with you for a minute. I had a GTX 1070 and the 4K experience was subpar. Sure I could play almost anything at 4K but often I had to lower some setting just to get 4K 30fps. And I'm not going to lie and say it's a perfect experience with the 1080 ti either. Some games still need some settings lowered if you want 4K 60 fps on the 1080 ti. But if you're happy with the GTX 1070 just keep it. There's just no need in messing with a system that's already performing the way you want it to.
 
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Darkbreeze

Darkbreeze

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That's a crapshoot at BEST. Mixing and matching usually results in having to, at the least, do some fine tuning, and at the worst, will not play nice period. I would never make a recommendation to add anything except identical matching part numbers and EVEN THEN that is no guarantee.

We are seeing more and more RAM that will not play nice together due to the many changes happening across the board over the last few years, and while his system is not part of that, being DDR3, there are also a lot of those modules that don't play nice due to incompatible ICs and density issues between early and later memory models.

All of which is beside the point that often even IDENTICAL modules may not work together regardless of what you do or don't do in the bios. Yes, often problems will automatically sort themselves OR you can correct them with some fine tuning of voltage and settings, but there's no guarantees at all, even if they are the same exact part number. Anybody who says different, is simply being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

I would not recommend that anybody put themselves in a situation where that is even a possibility. Why suffer all the frustation pointlessly. Find memory that is the same model, if you're going to take that chance that they will play nice, or bite the bullet and get a fully matched set that gives you the total capacity you are shooting for. Or simply upgrade the whole shebang.

Spending ANY amount of money on DDR3 at this stage when you KNOW it will not be usable with whatever you upgrade to down the road, seems foolish IMO. At least with a Skylake configuration you'd end up with memory you could likely use on a later upgrade. Not that I recommend that either.
 
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guanyu210379

guanyu210379

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I have mixed and matched RAM (from different brands and model numbers) modules for years.
For about 10-20 PCs per year...the chance of having them working by me so far is about 2 out of 3.
The chance is not bad.
Modules can not be matched?just sell them again on eBay.


Getting second handed DDR3 from eBay is far better than spending a lot more the whole rig.
I7 3770 is still ok.
Not everyone has always that kind of budget to always follow the newest trend.
The jump from I7 3770 to even I7 8700 can not justify the cost either.
 
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Darkbreeze

Darkbreeze

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Yep, I agree, getting unmatched memory to work together has a fairly decent 60-80% of the time success factor, but that 20-40% of the time when it doesn't work can result in MUCH frustration due to usually loss of investment as it's hard to sell or return the incompatible memory without either losing a portion of your investment on restocking fees or shipping, if they will take it back at all especially if it's used.

Also, time wasted trying to get it to work and frustration from it not working if in the end you are unable to.

I also disagree that the investment from Ivy bridge to Coffee lake are not worth it. Depending on your expectations and needs, it may be very much worth it for both gaming or non-gaming. If all you do is browse the internet, Skype or use average business/office applications, then no, it's probably not worth it at all. But for gaming or high end productivity, 3D graphics and CAD or other high end applications, OR for heavy multitasking, it's easily a good investment. Plus it's an investment that makes sense because at least some of the hardware can be moved forward with any future upgrades.

Nothing at all that you invest into anything prior to Skylake is going to be able to be repurposed except for maybe storage drives or graphics cards. And, since an Ivy bridge i7 can still command a decent price on the used market, you might be able to mitigate SOME of the costs of your upgrade anyhow since there are still a good many people using even older systems that your 3770 would make much sense for them to upgrade to. Of course, that's just a side thought really. Might want to keep it and use it for an HTPC or media server. Makes a lot of sense in that regard and is easily capable of handling those kinds of tasks with no problem.

For gaming, the upgrade to the 8700k from the 3770k shows a 49FPS performance increase. 43.7FPS difference in Rise of the tomb raider. 25.4FPS increase in Far cry Primal. 58.3FPS in Crysis 3. 17FPS in Ashes of the singularity.

992vfc.jpg


http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-intel-coffee-lake-core-i7-8700k-review_1


Other sites show similar but varying results depending on the card and system. Those were using a Titan X at 1080p so those are pretty much ALL related to the difference in CPU. I don't understand why so many people insist there's no difference or not enough to matter. Clearly there is a HUGE difference in some titles and at least a respectable one in almost all titles.


For productivity and professional applications, it's even more evident. Plus, those results were with the 3770k which has higher clocks than his 3770, so there is probably an even larger, although minimal, further difference.

 
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Mastersaofan

Mastersaofan

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This is actually very promising.

I really appreciate all your answers guys. Im just waiting on my xmas bonus to finally decide what to do.

I really understand this won't be that much of an upgrade or it would, never the less, I was always looking forward to just doing it. Because eventually, I'd have to upgrade anyway. As of now, 8700 non-k is the best deal I can go with.
Ill get a z board just incase I want to overclock in the future as well.

 
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Darkbreeze

Darkbreeze

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8700 non-k is a very good deal. You get MOSTLY what you'd get with the K sku anyhow, for about 65 bucks less. I honestly don't think that for a primarily gaming machine there is that much benefit from being able to overclock when the all core boost on the 8700 is already 4.7Ghz if the multi-core enhancement is enabled. I can't seem to find any information regarding whether that applies to non-k skus, but from what I've read it applies to ALL Coffee lake skus that have boost features.

Almost seems to make overclocking irrelevant unless you want to OC beyond 4.7Ghz which is probably a bad idea if you want the CPU to last very long anyhow, at least, without massive cooling of both the CPU and motherboard, great case airflow and probably delidding as well.
 
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