SSD VS SSHD performance. Will i notice a diffrence going from SSHD to SSD?

famaffe · Dec 17, 2017

Hello!

Im writing this post as im about to buy an SSD right after christmas to put windows 10 and Arma 3 on. Now as im currently using a Seagate Desktop 1TB 3.5" SSHD for everything on my pc.
And on Arma 3 while playing (mostly on modded servers like exile) but also on king of the hill etc i get some serious FPS drops. Like we are talking from 50 to like 2 in worst case. But usually just a stutter or a mini freeze while theres alot to load in for example.

So my question is: Will an SSD significantly reduce the stuttering if i replace my SSHD with an SSD? Or is the performance of an SSHD just as good as an SSD?

Will i or will i not notice a difference in upgrading to a SSD from an SSHD in arma 3 (stuttering and mini freezes)

Worth noting that the SSD i would buy is an Samsung 850 PRO 256 GB

Also here are my pc specs:

Corsair VS550, 550W PSU

I5 4690K (pretty sure it runs at 4,5Ghz)

ASUS B85-PRO GAMER, ATX

Ballistix Sport DDR3 1600MHz 8GB (2x4GB)

TURBO-GTX970-OC-4GD5

Seagate Desktop 1TB 3.5" SSHD

Win 10 Home

Im really hoping you guys can help me and hopefully an SSD will be there right thing for me as im 99% sure that my pc should be able to run arma 3 well on all other aspects atm expect the harddrive maybe?

My issue in short: When the game is trying to load alot of stuff i get fps drops and mini freezes until its settled down. Will me getting a SSD instead of an SSHD reduce this effect as its faster? I understand it wont boost my fps but i want more stable fps.

R_1 · Dec 17, 2017

a big difference.
an sshd has a tiny SSD onboard and is constantly caching data.

My system is like an SSHD but I have a HDD and an SSD 50GB as a cache (crucial adrenaline), the SSD is many times larger than that of an SSHD but it is enough to load my games, killing floor 2 and pubg, rather quickly. KF2 takes almost three minutes to load from HDD and 45 seconds from the cache disk.

having the data on the ssd readily available (no caching or spinup) will make a huge difference.

famaffe · Dec 17, 2017

R_1 :

So you can almost guarantee me that my FPS in games will be more consistent and not as many FPS dips with and ssd? I’m guessing games pull data from the storage once the ram is all used up

R_1 · Dec 17, 2017

IF the stuttering is the direct result of waiting for data from the Hard drive then yes (pretty much the only way storage can effect the FPS is starvation). eliminating the delay would allow the game to continue smoothly.

If the stuttering is say a faulty GPU, memory module, or another device, the storage will not be help the FPS at all.

No guarantees.

J_E_D_70 · Dec 17, 2017

I wouldn’t think so as most games load all textures for a level or map at once. Open world games do have to load in new data on the fly but not sure arma works like that.

famaffe · Dec 17, 2017

J_E_D_70 :

Ive Been talking to ppl that play arma aswell and don’t have any stutter issues and have a similar or marginally better pc than I have the only difference they have the game on an ssd.

IF i tab out for example I see arma is using about 5-6 gigs of ram out of 8. (I’ve limited it to 6) so I’m only assuming that once it gets all the ram it can have it goes on the storage.

Also worth saying I don’t think something else is broken considering my pc works fine on all other games I play. But what is your stance on the whole situation regarding people using a similar pc but with an ssd and getting no lag?

My friend is using same specs ish with an i7 I think and an ssd and a 980. And he gets 0 lag.

As well as another guy on the server I play on got an ssd and he said he hasn’t gotten any lag since and he has a very similar pc to mine.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I can only imagine that it must be the hard drive being to slow since you can imagine loading all textures around you as well as keeping track of other players on a huge map and so on.

*edit

I’m very sure arma loads textures on the fly since if you drive fast you see textures that hasn’t loaded in yet and if they are far away there are no textures if that’s what you mean by loading it on the fly

famaffe · Dec 17, 2017

R_1 :

I cant help to think that it makes sense though. I’ve played a lot of other games and they run fine except gta v which also stutters when driving fast.

Also worth mentioning if I tab out and go to the “ctrl-alt-delete” activity thing (sorry not sure what it’s called in English) my cpu I cruising along at like 50% and gpu somewhat the same.

Arma is very light on the gpu so that rules that out. And cpu should be fine for the game since it’s a pretty high end cpu even today. Though not as good as a i7 ofc. But the biggest giveaway I can tell that it might be slow load from my hard drive. Is that almost all my ram is being used in the system while playing. And therefore it must load the new textures from a different place right?

If I keep google chrome open while playing it lags more than after I close it. Which is another clue that it’s having to load data from a slow hard drive?

Let me know your thoughts of this as I feel like it’s big clues judging by ram usage and effects of using other programs while playing makes it lag even
More.

Karadjgne · Dec 17, 2017

Hybrids usually use an 8Gb SSD as cache. So any differences will be determined by location of the files in question. If the file is on C drive (SSD) then it's going to run at SSD speeds soon as it's demanded. If the file is on E drive (HDD) then first it gets opened by something on C drive, written to C cache folder, then run. It'll stay in C cache as long as it's used or not written over. With a SSHD, everything is run directly through the cache drive, so will suffer a small time lapse vrs direct SSD speeds, but not vrs anything pulled normally off a HDD.
The only exception to this is huge file access, an SSD (if it has the space) can set cache as large as needed, so can easily deal with a single file being 8.1Gb or larger. A SSHD has only an 8Gb cache SSD, so files that large will be lagged as access is stumped, the file being pulled directly from the HDD, bypassing the cache.

So if you have a game that's 20Gb, it contains hundreds of separate files, so the whole game is not loaded into cache, only the needed files. If your toon is in England, it'll cache what it needs for England, it won't cache any of the German storyline until you move to Germany, which then overwrites the England files. With an SSD, there's no overwrites, just reads from any further files as needed.

famaffe · Dec 17, 2017

Karadjgne :

I’m not really sure what to make of your answer tbh. 8gb Of cache. So arma is like a 27 gb game plus like several more gb of mods etc. so what you are saying is that I shouldn’t be lagging since the game is in use? Please clarify for me .

And I’m assuming that the 8gb of cache is also used by antivirus and other system processes which leaves a small bit left to games?

*edit

I’m not exactly sure how arma loads it’s things but but it definately loads things as it goes along. And I’m not sure how much of the 8gb cache is being used for the actual game. But the game definitely slows down once there’s a lot of new things to load in or areas with a lot of objects etc

Karadjgne · Dec 17, 2017

No, it's a cache. Temporary memory. You don't load the full game just needed files. Once it's done with, it gets written back to hdd as time permits.

famaffe · Dec 17, 2017

Karadjgne :

But how does that work in games that constantly is loading textures,missions,objects. Wouldnt the cache fill up with windows processes as those are always in use and like some of the game files make it onto the cache and some needs to be pulled from the hdd? Or does it not work that way?

Tensai30 · Dec 17, 2017

Although I advise getting an ssd as a boot drive and for speeding up general system performance, it will absolutely not improve your fps and if that is your sole reason for wanting to get it, you are wasting your money. The fps drops you described during driving on gta is not caused by your hard drive. I can verify this because I play without drops on a hard drive. I do use an ssd as a system drive but I never had drops even before getting it. I even have a consistent 60fps even at 4k (I'm running a 1080ti, your 970 wouldn't do that). The reason you are dropping while driving is most likely because of your ram. 16gb is recommended.
Also make sure your settings aren't too high. With a 970 you are looking at a best case scenario of mixed high/very high settings at no higher than 1080p.

famaffe · Dec 17, 2017

Tensai30 :

Well how do you explain the people I’ve spoken to that has 8 gigs of ram BUT runs an ssd without any lag?

I don’t think you read my post properly. I’m not saying it will BOOST FPS. I’m saying if it becomes more consistent frames as it might not need to load files from a slower memory source

R_1 · Dec 17, 2017

the sshd can only load files stored on its small SSD as fast as an SSD, beyond that it is just a hard drive. if the game needs to load 7 GB of files into the RAM all those files must come from the HDD/SSHD. the 8GB SSD limits what files can load fast, some space will be allocated for windows boot files and the other most run programs, so the game will have even less of the SSD to use and must rely on the spinning disk (roughly 1/4 the speed of an SSD). if the RAM is low it will need constant refreshing with data from storage. at some point the caching ability of an SSHD will hit the wall and its just a hard drive again.
I think that is what is happening. the SSD space is limited, which leaves the HDD. during the game, say mid level the HDD goes to sleep. at the end of the level you need the next level to load and the FPS drops due to the HDD spinning up and accessing the data. again the SSD part is of no help here.

Tensai30 · Dec 17, 2017

famaffe :

It woudln't give you more consistent frames. Like I said, I run my game off of my hdd and have windows running off of my ssd. Never drops below 60 even in the most intense scenarios. The point of ram is to reduce reads to the hdd and act as a buffer. The more ram you have, the less it needs to rely off of your hdd. Games are coded to utilize ram. If you don't have the ram then yes an ssd might help you but ultimately a much more pricey option than buying more ram. Unless you plan on installing all your games to an ssd then I suggest you take my advice. An ssd however will improve load times.
Btw the hard drive I am using is just a standard seagate barracuda 7200rpm drive.

famaffe · Dec 17, 2017

R_1 :

Why would a ssd not be beneficial? If my cpu and gpu can render fast enough that my HDD can’t keep up with them? The faster I can reach the information on a storage unit the better right? So it doesn’t make sense that you say an ssd wouldn’t make any sense since it’s an open world game that is constantly loading in textures and all kinds of things. And getting an ssd removing that
Small cache and dedicating however much fast storage the game needs should increase the performance right?

Tensai30 · Dec 17, 2017

Your cpu and gpu are certainly not rendering too fast for your hdd. I'm on a 1080ti which is a lot more powerful than your gpu and a 6600k at 4.5ghz which is also more powerful and my 7200rpm drive is doing just fine. An ssd will improve your general system performance and it is definitely worth getting but it will not effect frame rates unless you run into a (very rare) game that is coded so poorly that it fails to utilize ram and streams off the hard drive. GTA V is not one of those games. What an ssd would be good for is improving load times and speeding up applications and windows start time.
Make sure your settings aren't too high. No more than high/very high mixed settings recommended at a resolution no higher than 1080p. If you want higher settings you would need a better gpu. Grass also eats up a lot of fps on that game, set it no higher than high.

Karadjgne · Dec 17, 2017

Grass detail, viewing distance, physX, AA, mxaa etc are all cpu bound settings. The cpu has to decode a single blade of grass, determine its shape, color, shadow, movement, size etc then sends that info to the gpu to paint the picture. If viewing distance is short, it might only be 100k blades the cpu has to decode before viewing distance blurs into background. If viewing distance is long, it could be several million blades, which is a huge fps killer as the cpu will struggle to decode all that info. Add physX and AA to the mix and the cpu gets swamped, fps hits the toilet. So if you keep certain settings like grass and view lower and keep other settings like character detail etc higher, it balances out the workload between cpu/gpu and you get less or no lag on higher graphics areas. Don't just set for high or ultra settings as that'll swamp the cpu. Make sure physX is set for gpu in nvidia control panel etc. Drop AA entirely.

Tensai30 · Dec 17, 2017

Karadjgne :

AA is tied to the gpu not the cpu. Back when I was on a 1070 and a 1080p screen, I had no issues with 4x msaa. That being said, the OP is on a 970 so he should stick to fxaa. The only setting that is really heavy on the cpu is grass and like you mentioned, if physx is set to the gpu in nvcp, physx shouldn't be a problem for him either.

famaffe · Dec 18, 2017

Tensai30 :

Yes, But arma is known for poor optimization. And it’s only in arma I have issues that are big enough to want to fix . I can live with the gta stutter. Arma 3
Is just even bigger than gta v when it comes to scale and things.

I’ve googled around and seen that people reccomens SSD’s if you have stuttering issues in arma 3

J_E_D_70 · Dec 18, 2017

I’d look at it this way. If you have the money, get the ssd knowing that it might not fix your problem but will make your whole system more responsive. Get at least a 250gb drive and stick arma there to see.

If it doesn’t help, then more RAM might be in order.

Tensai30 · Dec 18, 2017

famaffe :

Tensai30 :

Yes, But arma is known for poor optimization. And it’s only in arma I have issues that are big enough to want to fix . I can live with the gta stutter. Arma 3
Is just even bigger than gta v when it comes to scale and things.

I’ve googled around and seen that people reccomens SSD’s if you have stuttering issues in arma 3

Sure ssds will help certain games (not many though). It should be said though that 16gb has been the standard for quite a while for gaming and 8gb being the minimum. You'd see a significant improvement in several games upgrading your ram and ram is the cheapest component in the pc.

famaffe · Dec 18, 2017

J_E_D_70 :

I think its Aldo worth mentioning that i went on now and tabbed out when the lag hit and saw at that money my hard drive went to 100% usage. (When it’s loading something in for example or if I’m zooming in on something in the distance)

famaffe · Dec 18, 2017

R_1 :

I tabbed out when the lags happened and i see that when it starts lagging my hdd rises fast to 100% usage, typically when its loading alot of things in or when i zoom in on something. Could this be a direct indication that the hard drive is throttling my fps during these times?

famaffe · Dec 18, 2017

Karadjgne :

Ive got a view distance of about 1,5-2 km depending on what im doing and i put terrain and disabled grass since i know thats a big killer in a game that loads in a huge area on the fly.
But i still think its the hdd!

I tabbed out when the lags happened and i see that when it starts lagging my hdd rises fast to 100% usage, typically when its loading alot of things in or when i zoom in on something. Could this be a direct indication that the hard drive is throttling my fps during these times? and getting an ssd might help the game load in things faster to get rid of some to all of the stutters?

SSD VS SSHD performance. Will i notice a diffrence going from SSHD to SSD?

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