Cheapest pc without a graphics card that won't bottleneck my spare r9 290

maminbabin · Dec 20, 2017

Hello, I'm new to these forums so forgive me if I'm posting in the wrong place.

So I have a spare r9 290 and I wanted to put it in the cheapest possible rig without having it completely bottlenecked by the other components.

I saw this video where a guy pairs an i5 750 with a 1080ti and the frame rates are still ok (especially at 4k).

here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daiF6lYguN4&t=102s

I looked up pcs which resemble his build, since the bottleneck would be way smaller for my r9 290. They come pretty cheap at around a 100 euros, but I'm not really experienced with budget builds and don't know what other options there are? I'm hoping you guys could help build a pc with similar preformance that goes even under a 100 euros.

Thanks in advance!!

jankerson · Dec 20, 2017

That i5 750 was Overclocked to 4 GHz.....

Anything below 4K and it would seriously bottleneck the GTX 1080Ti. That's the reason the tests were done at 4K to even things out CPU wise by putting everything on the GPU. Drop the resolution down to 1080P and things would be a lot different, HUGE bottleneck.

And R9 290 wouldn't handle 4K so that is a mute point in the 1st place and not relevant.

However if you can get your hands on an I7 870 and LGA 1156 motherboard that would work fine with your R9 290.

Pretty much any I7, that's 4 core/8 thread will handle your card no problem.

Rexper · Dec 20, 2017

That's not how bottlenecking works: https://pcpartpicker.com/forums/topic/214851-on-cpugpu-bottlenecking-in-games

And choosing PC components with only 'bottlenecking' in your mind is a bad idea. And don't choose a PC that revolves around the GPU. 100% pointless to worry about bottlenecking when choosing parts.

Choose a CPU that can deliver the FPS your desire in the games you play (GPU, resolution, and graphics settings have no impact on CPU performance).

jankerson · Dec 21, 2017

Rexper :

So I suppose by your logic a GT 710 should have the same frame rates as a GTX 1080Ti in AAA games. Same CPU and Resolution and game with the same settings. Something like PUBG, ROTR, Witcher 3 etc....

That's going by your logic.

So by that logic nobody needs anything more than a GT 710 to play any game at max settings from 1080P to 4K..... And with a Pent G4560.....

WOW that's awesome, need to call Intel, AMD and all the GPU makers and tell them all to stop producing.

HOWEVER... In real life.

Everything does actually matter and can and will make a difference, the system needs to be balanced performance wise CPU and GPU depending on what games and resolution that is being played.

So one can't really take a GT 710 and i7 7700K and play something like PUBG etc at 4K and MAX settings and expect any kind of good frame rates.

And yes there will be a difference (Increase) in frame rates taking a i7 7700K and pairing it with a GTX 1060 and then GTX 1080 and playing the same game at the same settings at the same resolution.

madmatt30 · Dec 21, 2017

^ Youve taken what Rexper said completely out of context & I have no idea how you've ended up with that comparison.

All he said is that a CPU limitation remains a constant irregardless of graphics quality or resolution.
A cpu that tops out at 100% with 60fps at 4k wont magically increase fps when you drop the resolution to 1440p /1080p/720p , it'll remain the same.

That said that 750 puts up a good showing & no doubt the i7 860/870 would do a great job too on the cheap.

There ate discrepancies in that YouTube video however that show an imherent weakness in the old 1156 platform , the difference between 1440p & 1080p results should be negligible & that looks like some crippling of the pci express bandwidth on the platform itself rather than the cpu.

Finstar · Dec 21, 2017

For 100€ you'll get something that might just about run windows.
You'd need a budget of at least 400€ to get a something that pairs well with the 290 you have.

Long__T123 · Dec 21, 2017

Haswell i5 office desktops will get the job done. The lowest I seen them on eBay is around 200 if you’re ok in using eBay. The only thing you would have to add is a better power supply

madmatt30 · Dec 21, 2017

Yeah you're looking at €60-70 just for a psu capable of running a 290 safely

You'll see the YouTube guy dropped a corsair 650w in there specifically to run that 1080ti , the 290 pulls 80-100w more so you can do the math.

@ Long__T123 - yeah spec wise they'll do a good job , as per above though there's an extra €60-70 for the psu & the 290 also reqyires extremely good case cooling which those prebuilds most definitely will not have.

Out of all the older gen gpu's you could possibly choose from , the 290 & 390 are by far the hardest ones to build around cheap because their power & cooling requirements are in a word 'excessive'

jankerson · Dec 21, 2017

madmatt30 :

The Video shows exactly what I knew what would happen, see how both machines are very close in performance at 4K while there is a huge difference at 1080P?

Here is another one that shows the same thing, but even larger difference at 1080P and that was with the i5 750 at 4GHz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpRGhVo9jxs

The reason for this is most of the work is put on the GPU at 4K, what I pointed out in the 1st place.

See how the slower and older platform is holding back the GTX 1080TI in both videos at the lower resolutions?

Also what I pointed out in the 1st place.

And Rexper disagreed with me on that..... Even when the video clearly showed what I said.

So no, I took what he said exactly how he said it.

So I applied that logic. LOL

jankerson · Dec 21, 2017

Finstar :

Yep, or more because he will need a case with really good airflow and a good PSU to power that GPU.

Rexper · Dec 21, 2017

There nothing funny about a misunderstood comment. Perhaps I'll try to be more clear.

Every CPU has its potential FPS in each game. Say for example an i5 750 potential is 90- 100 FPS in GTA V (I'm just making this example up). The resolution, GPU, or graphical settings does not change the CPU's potential, as 100FPS at 1080p requires the same CPU workload at 100FPS at 4K.

What the graphical settings, and resolution do change is the workload on the GPU. Theoretically any GPU can perform to any framerate, if the resolution and graphical settings are adjusted right.
This means a 1050ti may be able to play ultra, 720p (again, just making this example up) in GTAV at 60FPS. Whereas a GTX may be able to play 1080p, ultra in GTA V at 60FPS.
THough the true framerate cap is from the CPUs potential. Since the CPU in the example is able to perform to 100FPS, and in this example only 60FPS is what is desired, there is no worrying bottleneck in play.

So, the CPU basically changes the max framerate a game can be played at (this does deviate throughout the game). The GPU changes the resolution + graphical settings a game can be played at while maintaining a certain framerate.

If you'd like to, which I doubt you already have, read the link I posted in my comment, which explains in medium detail how CPU and GPU bottlenecking works.

jankerson · Dec 21, 2017

Rexper :

I read the link more than once and it's BS and has been disproved a number of times.

You still don't get it.

You are STILL saying the same thing, not your fault because you are going by the link.

Take the same CPU (i7 7700K as an example) in the same game with the same settings the framerate will be the same since the CPU controls the frame rate with either a GTX 1060 or GTX 1080.

IT WON'T BE.

All you have to do is think about what they are trying to say in reverse to see how full of it they really are.

Everything has to work together like I said it needs to be balanced power wise.

That said awhile back I tried to create a bottleneck using my 1st Gen i7 870 using a RX 480. I had to turn off HT and disable 3 cores to create it. Then the CPU was at 100% while the GPU was at around 30%.

Rexper · Dec 21, 2017

What? No where did I say the CPU controls the framerate. It acts as the maximum.

"Take the same CPU (i7 7700K as an example) in the same game with the same settings the framerate will be the same since the CPU controls the frame rate with either a GTX 1060 or GTX 1080. "

If GPUs aren't bottlenecking at any time, yes, the framerates should be the same. If the GPUs are the bottleneck/limiting factor, then no.

"disproved a number of times."

Please link the sources. I would like to see them.

jankerson · Dec 21, 2017

Rexper :

Every single GPU benchmark ever done disproves it, well the honest ones anyway.

jankerson · Dec 21, 2017

Rexper :

Hardware will always be a limiting factor one way or the other, either the CPU or the GPU, that's the reason why we see faster and more powerful products hitting the market as time goes on.

Making the GPU the bottleneck as in 4K for example is the underhanded way some reviewers make certain CPU's look better than others, that and tweaking the settings at 4K one way or the other to cook the results even more.

One can make an i5 750 look like a superstar compared to a i5 7600K if they want to, and some have over the years using the gaming tests to do it. Same with the G4560 and assorted CPU's.....

Works the other way also making some GPU's look better by tweaking the settings to make them look better than they really are.

Ever read or watched a GPU review for example and you have the same basic setup and they get 3K or 4K LOWER scores than you?

I saw that more than a few times when the VEGA came out and they were making it look better than they really are.....

Rexper · Dec 21, 2017

https://www.techspot.com/article/1496-pairing-cpu-and-gpu-bottlenecking/

"Making the GPU the bottleneck as in 4K for example is the underhanded way some reviewers make certain CPU's look better than others, that and tweaking the settings at 4K one way or the other to cook the results even more."

Thank you for finally understanding.

If the GPU is the bottleneck, FPS will remain the same if the CPUs are different. Otherwise one would see a difference.
And yes, if the CPU is the bottleneck, framerate differences won't be found with different GPUs. The only affect a better gpu would have then is the ability to play at higher resolutions + graphical settings while maintaining that framerate.

One thing to keep in mind is bottlenecks can shift throughout the game. At one point of the game, the GPU may be the bottleneck, while 5min later the CPU may.

jankerson · Dec 21, 2017

Rexper :

That's what you were trying to say?

I have been seeing that type of crap go on since benchmarks were invented and or reviews being done.

Today it's more common however with YT etc.

That link was interesting as that is what I have been trying to tell people forever. If one gets a mid range card like a GTX 1060 or RX 480 etc they will be stuck at mid range performance no matter what CPU they have.

It drives me crazy when people get a I7 7700K etc and a Mid Range GPU. LOL

I mean at least get a GTX 1070.

Cheapest pc without a graphics card that won't bottleneck my spare r9 290

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