Can you update BIOS without a monitor? (It would have to be auto executing)

Zerotragedy · Jan 6, 2018

TL DR: The first 3/4ths of this is my troubleshooting process. Towards the end is where I'm asking this question. I apologize if this isn't in the correct forum spot.

Current Build:

AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor
MSI - B350 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard
G.Skill - Flare X 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory
Kingston - A400 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive
MSI - GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB GAMING X Video Card
Deepcool - TESSERACT SW RED ATX Mid Tower Case
Corsair - CXM 550W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply
Asus - DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer
OS - Windows 7 Ultimate

Okay so a little introduction and backstory as to why I am asking this question. My friend recently purchased all of these parts brand new. We built the computer together, got it up and running, everything was great. A few days after use, it suddenly powered off on him. It continued to power off 5-20 seconds after each time he would start the computer ever since, rendering it unusable. Through various testing, we finally came to the paperclip test for the PSU, well wouldn't you know it, even with it fully disconnected from everything, it would still turn off after jump starting it within that same 5-20 second window. Knowing this meant a bad PSU, I had him send it in. Amazon gave him a brand new one, we threw it in and crossed our fingers. What we then encountered was the computer turned on, and did not turn off on it's own anymore, which was great-- except we had the dreaded "no signal" on the monitor display. On a side note ~(We never updated the BIOS by the way if anyone is curious, we only installed the basic Mobo drivers and GPU drivers)

So lets take a break here and discuss what testing I've done on that situation. I've tried multiple monitors. I've tried DVI-D to DVI-D, DVI-D to HDMI adapters, HDMI to HDMI, display port to HDMI etc etc, I have most combinations of adapters specifically for this situation. Unfortunately the 1 adapter I don't have is VGA to DVI-D through an active link box, but I've got one ordered and on the way.

Now, since I'm in a situation where the CPU doesn't have integrated graphics, I have to go through the GPU. So what I did was throw the GPU into a different computer, works great, immediately connected, display came on etc. without needing to install drivers of any sort, I mean I could install it's drivers and then it would recognize the brand etc, but it's unneeded since the monitor immediately communicates with it. So I KNOW the GPU is good!

Next, I tried every combination of the 2 ram sticks, you name it, each ram by themselves in each slot at a time, and both together in each combination the 2 could be put in, everything. So naturally I moved onto trying different ram in them but unfortunately don't have any that will fit the mobo (may buy a single stick later). So I moved onto removing them completely to get beeps. I don't think I've ever heard the computer make any post beeps or alarm beeps no matter what I've done, whether it be GPU removed, RAM removed etc. (Yes my HDAudio for the case is hooked up and people stated that it beeps in reviews, with ram removed etc like most modern boards should with a little speaker etc, so maybe I'm missing something there.)

Moving on to the processor. Upon removing it, i discovered 1 slight bent pin on the processor and the tiniest bit of thermal paste on two of the pins. He installed that part and I couldn't help but groan when I saw this, because even though I've never bent a pin before or gotten thermal paste on there, I can imagine the consequences. Taking a tiny zip-tie, (didn't have a toothpick) I cleaned the two prongs and unbent the pin and used a magnifying glass to ensure all pins were in a perfect line. I put everything back together, same issue. It's very possible this part is bad, and I have a brand new mobo (same exact model) on the way to rule out his mobo being the issue just in case, that way we can send the processor back next.

So the interesting thing to me, is that upon start up, the EZ Debug lights come on for CPU and DRAM, but only for a second. Then I have no alarm lights whatsoever, they all turn off, which indicates no issue to my understanding. SO, I've come to the conclusion that one of the troubleshooting steps we did, (Clearing CMOS) has caused the mobo to reach a state of bios that does not recognize the GPU, or the processor, causing this no signal issue. Maybe this is a long shot idea, But I feel that if clearing CMOS, factory defaults the mobo, then it would also erase me setting the solid state drive to be what to boot from (It has the Windows 7 OS on it) and it would go back to booting off CD. So by that logic, I would like to create a bootable CD that will update my BIOS back to the version it was probably at (I can only assume the latest version because of many reviews stating this mobo didn't have the firmware to recognize this specific processor and they had to get it updated for everything to work). BUT, the drawback to all of this, is that it needs to auto execute, because I don't have a monitor.

Is this possible? Can anyone instruct me on how to do this? I appreciate any insight or assistance with my issue/question. Thank you very much.

maruniverse7 · Jan 7, 2018

Don't worry about updating the BIOS right away. Let the new cable arrive and then start updating. You do need a monitor because you need to click on tools and updating utility stuff and selecting the file downloaded from the motherboard manufacturers website. I don't think you can auto update ( Which would be nice)

Zerotragedy · Jan 7, 2018

maruniverse7 :

Thank you very much for your quick response. The tracking says the cable should arrive Monday. I will most definitely inform you and anyone else if I can manage to get a signal with that cable, as the GPU does not have a VGA port and that is the last thing to try for that (I'll go VGA from my monitor to DVI-D on the GPU). I've ran into more than a few threads where there is never a solid conclusion/answer and it just dead ends, and I won't let my issue go down like that!

Rogue Leader · Jan 7, 2018

Pulling the CMOS battery did not cause the BIOS to not recognize the GPU. It did cause it to not boot from the SSD (although if the SSD is the ONLY thing plugged in it should get to booting from it eventually). But it sure sounds like the board or cpu took a dump on you.

Unfortunately MSI motherboards do not have such a headless BIOS updater (ASUS does on some). Not that it matters, thats not your problem.

maruniverse7 · Jan 7, 2018

Zerotragedy :

maruniverse7 :

Thank you very much for your quick response. The tracking says the cable should arrive Monday. I will most definitely inform you and anyone else if I can manage to get a signal with that cable, as the GPU does not have a VGA port and that is the last thing to try for that (I'll go VGA from my monitor to DVI-D on the GPU). I've ran into more than a few threads where there is never a solid conclusion/answer and it just dead ends, and I won't let my issue go down like that!

Np!. If you CPU supports graphics. you can also use the display port ( HDMI or VGA for example ) to display to a monitor

Zerotragedy · Jan 7, 2018

Rogue Leader :

Thank you very much for your reply Rogue Leader. See I wasn't sure if the mobo's bios was causing it to not recognize the GPU, or if the processor was somehow inhibiting the monitor from recognizing the GPU (especially because of the issue I discovered with it). My experience and knowledge is lacking, so I really appreciate all the help and insight I'm already getting, thank you. And it's a bummer that my theory doesn't hold water, it would have been nice.

Rogue Leader · Jan 7, 2018

Zerotragedy :

NP

If you're not seeing the BIOS and you've confirmed both the GPU and Memory are good, then it has to be the board or CPU thats the issue. If thermal paste got on the pins, depending on the type, it could have shorted something out over time.

Karadjgne · Jan 7, 2018

The cmos is basically a list of your hardware. When you start the pb the bios accesses the cmos gets the list and all of its attendant addresses and executes the list. Large time saver mostly. By clearing the cmos, you force the bios to physically hunt down every piece of hardware, that's all. As far as boot goes, the only thing that changes is the order. So if your order was ssd-hdd-cd, it'll reset to the default order of cd-ssd-hdd. If there's no CD, then it moves to ssd then hdd until it exhausts all possible options, then drops a line on the monitor telling you there's no boot media. So no, you don't need the CD boot disc if you have a viable OS in the pc somewhere.

HDaudio only connects the front ports, the ones next to the USB ports at the front of the case. To be able to hear the beep codes you'd need to connect the little piezo pc speaker which on most mobo's the header for that is on the left bottom, usually right in amongst the power/led/hdd wires from the power buttons etc. The HDaudio header being on the bottom left, opposite corner. If you don't have the little speaker, you won't get beeps.

Bent pins on cpu can be an issue, even after straightening. If the pin was shorted out its possible the cpu is fried. But there's also possibly residue from the thermal paste, it's not electrically conductive, it's reasonable to assume it's possible that you simply don't get any connection still from those pins. I'd take a coffee filter edge and carefully run it diagonally through the pins, on the bias so it'll run the line. Do it dry, no isopropyl. I'd also check the socket for any paste the pin might have pushed down the holes.
Check both power connections on the board, the 20+4 and the 4+4, both should seat fully making sure no pin is pushed out.

Good luck.

Zerotragedy · Jan 7, 2018

Rogue Leader :

Zerotragedy :

NP

If you're not seeing the BIOS and you've confirmed both the GPU and Memory are good, then it has to be the board or CPU thats the issue. If thermal paste got on the pins, depending on the type, it could have shorted something out over time.

Gotcha, makes sense. Well this new, exact model mobo will be here Thursday according to tracking and the Cable will be here Monday. So I will update accordingly, thank you.

Zerotragedy · Jan 7, 2018

Karadjgne :

Wow, thank you Karadjgne. That was extremely insightful. So much in fact, that it jump started my memory into me remembering that I saw a little speaker completely by itself in a plastic bag that came with the mobo I think. I have it in my hands now. I had disassembled everything is preparation to rebuild when the new mobo came but now I'm going to reassemble and troubleshoot with the beep code method I read about all the time! Thank you! Side note ~ I will most definitely do as instructed and thoroughly check those steps you said one at a time.

ingtar33 · Jan 7, 2018

I hate to be the agent of doom, but when a power supply is bad it can ruin everything in your system. all you can do is test it part by part. It looks like you have a firm handle of the issues, my guess is if the new cable doesn't help then the motherboard got nuked by the power supply.

Zerotragedy · Jan 7, 2018

ingtar33 :

I was thinking along the same lines as you. Pretty much my remaining suspicion is in order of Motherboard -> CPU -> RAM. I'm just sad I can't come up with a method to test each one individually with what I have on hand. It would be so nice if there was such a thing as a processor tester, or a motherboard tester, like they have for PSU's. I feel it would make people like me that aren't exactly the brightest, but able to figure things out through the pain of time, a lot less troubled. Thank you for your reply!

Karadjgne · Jan 7, 2018

1. You've spent some time on Google.
2. You've done intelligent steps to rectify the issue.
3. You've actually done something about the issue.
4. You've sought help intelligently.

Compared to some who I've seen post here, you are a downright genius. So claims of not being bright aren't exactly correct in my book. On the bright side, look at it this way. You just got an education in pc repair and diagnostics that most skip entirely and just cart the pc down to a repair shop. So kudos to you for the effort.

Hope the replacement mobo is the fix cuz honestly you've done pretty much anything a pc repair shop would have done.

Zerotragedy · Jan 7, 2018

Thank you very much for the compliment! I do my best to exhaust as many options as I can before I submit to being stumped! Coming this week I promise to update accordingly for everyone. I personally love knowing the answer to a problem, especially if it was difficult! And as an update for you, I did as you said with a coffee liner and also checked each socket with a magnifying glass and flash light for residual residue! Luckily I did not see any in the socket but I did see the slightest bit of some near the top of one of the sockets (the thermal paste that had been on the pins was closer to the base of the pins, so I suppose that makes sense), wouldn't have seen it without the magnifying glass so I made sure to clean that off.

I would have moved on to the beep testing but the wife stole me away. So I'm retiring for the night. Tomorrow, after work I plan to do the testing with the beep codes etc. I'll have to research a little bit and see what amount of beeps means what and what not!

Thank you all for your assistance and insight! I promise to update everyone accordingly, thank you again!

Zerotragedy · Jan 10, 2018

TL DR: The new motherboard worked! The old one must have taken some kind of damage from the faulty power supply or the two pins that had thermal paste between them on the CPU!

Hello everyone!

As promised I'm here tonight to give an update! I tried the VGA to DVI-D active box cable and that still left me with the dreaded "no signal". The exact motherboard showed up today, and I rebuilt the computer yet again. Call it stupidity or laziness, but I've done this so many times that I actually forgot to put thermal paste the CPU and also didn't realize the fan was not quite sitting down on the CPU. So upon booting the computer, it promptly turned off with a few buzzing noises. I assumed that the CPU had fried yet another motherboard, but then upon feeling how hot it was when I tried to inspect the bottom, I realized what I had forgotten to do and that it must have overheated. I've also been up the last 36 hours due to work (lol). ANYWAYS! After properly putting thermal paste and getting the fan heatsink directly on it. I tried booting up again, and there's the BIOS!!! After that I set the BIOS to boot from my SSD with Windows on it and there she is! The beautiful desktop! I hope my friend appreciates all the work we've done for him! lol!

I would just like to thank everyone very much for all of their help. Really big thank you!!!

Karadjgne · Jan 10, 2018

Nice! Hope the friend appreciates it too. Congrats.

ingtar33 · Jan 11, 2018

Zerotragedy :

TL DR: The new motherboard worked! The old one must have taken some kind of damage from the faulty power supply or the two pins that had thermal paste between them on the CPU!

Hello everyone!

As promised I'm here tonight to give an update! I tried the VGA to DVI-D active box cable and that still left me with the dreaded "no signal". The exact motherboard showed up today, and I rebuilt the computer yet again. Call it stupidity or laziness, but I've done this so many times that I actually forgot to put thermal paste the CPU and also didn't realize the fan was not quite sitting down on the CPU. So upon booting the computer, it promptly turned off with a few buzzing noises. I assumed that the CPU had fried yet another motherboard, but then upon feeling how hot it was when I tried to inspect the bottom, I realized what I had forgotten to do and that it must have overheated. I've also been up the last 36 hours due to work (lol). ANYWAYS! After properly putting thermal paste and getting the fan heatsink directly on it. I tried booting up again, and there's the BIOS!!! After that I set the BIOS to boot from my SSD with Windows on it and there she is! The beautiful desktop! I hope my friend appreciates all the work we've done for him! lol!

I would just like to thank everyone very much for all of their help. Really big thank you!!!

great news, glad you're up and running.

Can you update BIOS without a monitor? (It would have to be auto executing)

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