8700k OC without deliding?

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jan 9, 2018

So I just swapped out the CPU/MB from a 6700k I had at 1.4v, 4.7GHz.
My H115i was able to keep temps:
Idle- ~22C
Gaming- ~50C depending on the game
Stress- ~90C

Unboxed and installed my 8700k starting running games and stress tests to see what temps were.
STOCK:
Idle- 20-23C
Gaming- ~50C
Stress- Got up to 83C in Prime95 but I am sure it will get to about 90C in RealBench (haven't run it yet as I opted to do a clean install and haven't installed it yet)

So the 8700k at stock is about as hot as my 1.4v 6700k.

So will I be able to OC the 8700k very high without delidding? It appears I have about a 10 degree margin to increase the voltage. (I might be wrong but I think at stock it is already running at 1.314v so far.) will check again when I get home.

I believe I will hit the thermal limit far before I hit the safe voltage limit.

I'm not willing to delid. I'm not going to chance doing it myself and I'm not putting my PC on a shelf for however long it would take silicon lottery to do it.

I would be more willing to upgrade to Corsair's new H150i Pro (360mm cooler) than delid. But I doubt that is really necessary. I just want to get by with a modest OC with what I have, and hopefully get back the performance I lost on WoW after switching chips. (everything else runs great, better for the most part)

WildCard999 · Jan 9, 2018

Those temps are fine and the stress temps are pretty unrealistic in terms of actual everyday use. Also with Prime95 make sure your using V26.6 (Small FFT's 15-30min) as I'm pretty sure the newer versions give the Intel CPU's too much voltage but I could be wrong. I would also pass on the H150i Pro as other coolers such as the EVGA 280/NZXT X62 are better from the review.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-h150i-pro-closed-loop-aio-cpu-cooler-review,5418.html

YoAndy · Jan 9, 2018

All depends if your cooler is good enough to keep the temperatures down.. The h115i is okay, but not that great for a six core processor at 5GHz. You should upgrade to a better cooler. For example i have the i7 7800X and I'm using the XSPC EX360 High Performance Radiator (Supports 3 x 120mm Fans) and the XSPC X4 Photon 170 Reservoir/Pump Combo,.

Radiator..https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006097HEC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Pump: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XYVCYXY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

biglizard · Jan 9, 2018

Your going to have to play around with vcore.

Get a baseline at stock, lower vcore until no longer stable(stock settings often too high). Then adjust from there. Some of these chips will run 5ghz below 1.3 vcore.

I know you said no delid, but consider rocker88 is like 45 dollars. Compared to what a 360mm cooler cost.

I used this tool on mine, no stress, no fuss, literally 5 minute settup and done. Temps dropped 23c, no cooler is going to accomplish that.

WildCard999 · Jan 9, 2018

I've heard good things about the Rockit 88 kits and the video guides seem really good.
https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jan 9, 2018

WildCard999 :

Seeing as how the H115i and EVGA CLC 280 are about the same thermal performance, yeah that's a huge pass

. Didn't even know there were reviews out yet, literally saw a FB post about it for the first time yesterday.

I'll make sure to update (down-date? lol) Prime95. However, RealBench has always provided me with pretty solid information. Prime95 always passes initially but then I have failed RealBench on the same OC, so I tend to use RealBench to determine the stability. Also aware that I'm within "safe" temps but I don't think I understand what qualifies as safe for everyday use. Ideally I would like to keep it under 60C for normal loads.

marksavio · Jan 9, 2018

my experiences trying to optimize the 8700K w/ H80i v2 to "sync all cores" with mce enhanced wasnt very good. i know its not the greatest cooler but with my old itx build. i just wanted to reuse these parts to save cash. so i just went w/ disabling the mce. adaptive offset on vcore 1.350V. sync all cores to 50. blck to 103.15. i get around 5.1Ghz~ish. though my cooler can stabilize temps ave 73C, as soon as vcore jumps 1.450V++. i get hit with the BSOD KMode exception after 1 hour of video encoding. so i just applied an AVX offset of 3. and now my temps are like 65C at full usage.

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jan 9, 2018

biglizard :

That sounds like a great option. It doesn't seem that hard. Still terrifying seeing as how there's still the potential to destroy a $400 CPU, but it looks very doable.

And yeah, no cooler is going to get me much more performance. The H115i is fine, it beats the Kraken X61 for sure as far as raw thermals go. Nothing is going to be more than 5C cooler if that. I could probably set my fans to an adaptive mode instead of fixed RPM which would help when they get up in temp.

WildCard999 · Jan 9, 2018

I think you can create a custom fan profile in Corsair Link, however it's been a long time since I last used it as it was very glitchy for me but this was over a year ago and the software may be better now. I also got rid of the stock fans and replaced them with much quieter Cougar fans so I was able to increase the RPM.

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jan 9, 2018

WildCard999 :

I can increase the RPM so much. The ML140 Pro's I have are silent in my case up to 56% speed. The rest of my rig is dead silent, so the only reason I don't go higher is because you can hear a butterfly fart in my rig as it is now. All I hear is air moving. In fact the CD drive (because I installed the ROG software from there) has been driving me nuts all day. It's easily 4-5 times louder than the rest of the rig.

Anyways the only reason I have them is because they are the best fans Corsair makes and I really like the LED's. I am going to replace them with the new LL140's though. They are a little louder but they look awesome. If I wasn't obsessed with looking at my rig I would probably have Noctua's.

I was also having trouble setting a custom curve, but I also refused to update Corsair Link for the longest time. The new version (which I finally got since I did a clean install) works a little better it seems.

The biggest problem is that I used AI Suite 3's Fan Xpert for my case fans and that is not working atm due to Window's 10 Update recently. That is possibly part of the problem since that was also what was controlling my pump speed (which was set to 100%) I have no idea what it is set at now.

I can tweak with those settings when I get home I have had very little time to actually do anything since yesterday it took a good two hours to rebuild my rig and then I spent another 3 trying to get stuff to work without doing a clean install, finally decided to just clean install anyways because of all the junk I had on my PC, and then spent the rest of the night reinstalling the OS and downloading as many of these utility programs as I could, then queuing up my Steam games to load. So I haven't been able to mess with anything too much so far.

Really just trying to figure out if I can realistically OC with what I have. I guess I won't really know until I try. I'm just worried that the temps are already pretty high, I won't be able to go very far.

WildCard999 · Jan 9, 2018

I think you should consider the Rockit 88 kit, at least by doing the delid and with that AIO cooler once everything is done you shouldn't have to worry about the temp and then the only limiting factor would be the voltage. Even I've been considering doing it as I have a little bit of room for my voltage on my CPU and I feel I could probably get my 4770K to 4.6-4.7.

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jan 9, 2018

WildCard999 :

I guess I have to. The least I have heard people gaining from a delid of the 8700k is 16C. That's pretty substantial.

I'll see what kind of temps I can get with a small overclock and if I am content with that I won't worry about it, but if not I'll have to check out that kit.

bjornl · Jan 9, 2018

Since you are worried about the tempos (and ~90c not over clocked is very high especially water cooled) than why not have Silicon lottery delid it for you? They don't charge much and have 1 day turn around. Delidding can really lower the temps more than most would expect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvgjbrmT3us
I have an 8700k. I have the skills to delid it myself, but given the nominal cost of having someone with lots of specific experience do it, I am going to go that way.

I agree with wildcard that the x62 is a better water cooler than the Corsair.

re: the 90c temp what temps do you get in Aida64? I found it to be a far more indicative stress test than RealBench or Prime95. You might be able to shave it down a few degrees (low single digits) by using kryonaut and being careful to use the minimum amount.

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jan 9, 2018

bjornl :

I don't see the x62 being THAT much better than the x61 and the H115i (the best cooler Corsair makes and probably the only one really worth getting in all honesty) beats the x61 by about 5-7C. Even if the x62 beats the x61 by (lets say 10C which is pretty reasonable) it still only beats the Corsair by a couple degrees. I can't justify spending $160 on a slightly better cooler than my $140 one.

Same thing with Kryonaut TG. I use Arctic MX-4, TG only cools 1.5-2C more. Not really worth changing it out when my stuff is perfectly good.

And it's not so much about them doing it, I would trust them more for sure, however the turnaround time even if a day is nothing compared to shipping time and costs. It's already $30 for them to do it, then I have to ship it to them, which would be about $12 and 2-3 days in transit, then they have their one day turnaround, then they ship it back which will cost however much and another 2-3 days, and my PC is unusable for a week. Not willing to do that, i'd much rather try it out myself.

I also found this. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-coffee-lake-i7-8700k-cpu,5252-12.html

I think I definitely need to do more testing.. It's possible I was looking at the max temp and saw that it had spiked to about 83C which is exactly what it looks like here. My Gaming loads are much cooler than these, so it's entirely possible the chip just runs really hot as it is, and that 90C is theorized, I never actually tested it in RealBench.

Once I test it out some more I will be able to tell definitively. But at this point it looks like a delid is definitely in order. Those temps suck.

You'd think Intel would have fixed this by now.

mjbn1977 · Jan 9, 2018

well, I have my i8700k (aircooler, bequiet dark rock pro 3, not delidded) stable overclocked to 4.8Ghz at 1.25V. Gaming temps are in the 50s, benchmark and stress test 60Cs to 70Cs, prime95 V26.6 under 85C, prime 95 latest version with AVX, hits 90Cs (without avx offset). So, overclocking without delidding works, but its better with delidding.

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jan 9, 2018

mjbn1977 :

That sounds like you got a really good chip then

congratulations! lol.

I'm definitely going to do some more testing. It's possible i'm only looking at the spikes and not seeing what avg temps are.

bjornl · Jan 9, 2018

EpIckFa1LJoN :

Good luck with your delidding experiment. I'm sure it will go fine. I've done it in the distant past when I was experimenting with extreme cooling using peltier junctions combined with a high end custom loop water cooler. For now I am content with a Noctua 15s. The pump won't die. The parts won't need service. Basically a low-fuss simple solution that matches your water cooler and is close to the best. So we agree that good enough is good enough in some cases. Wrt to the Kryonaut. You are right. It makes a very little difference. 2c being typical. Putting too much thermal compound (a common mistake, but not saying you made it) makes far more of a difference than the type of compound used. The difference in cost between them is so trivial and the time and effort to apply it is so quick and easy that to not use the better stuff feels like running your CPU a little hotter just because you're mad at it. I doubt it will be a week in shipping to and from Texas, but I guess I'll see. I won't care much if it is since I have a pair of other computers I can use for a few days.

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jan 9, 2018

You might be right on the paste. But how much a difference would that make?

I applied about a pea-sized dot in the middle (I'd say just under 1/4" diameter just a little bit wider than tall). I may have misjudged the size of a pea. It may be a little too much paste.

I didn't overload it with paste. Think I should redo it?

You might be right, it may have been a little too long since last I applied paste. I may have overdone it. Going to try to redo it again when I get home and see if it helps.
REVISIT: Idk anymore... I watched a video for my specific paste and they seem to be using MORE than I did. Maybe I'll just change it just to be safe xD.

bjornl · Jan 9, 2018

EpIckFa1LJoN :

I tend to use less than a pea by a fair margin, closer to a grain of rice. Thermal compound serves only to fill in the micro-cracks and other imperfections of the cooler surface and the CPU surface. From your description it sounds as if you may have used a little too much paste. If it were my PC and it was running a little on the warm side and I was wondering if I goofed on the thermal compound, I would just re-do it.

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jan 9, 2018

Yeah I updated my last post a few times.. Think I am going to redo it just to be safe. But even the video on the Arctic site uses a lot maybe even more than I did lol. Think I'll try a little and see what happens.

bjornl · Jan 9, 2018

EpIckFa1LJoN :

I don't work for Artic SIlver and so I can't speak to their video. I can say I have built several 100 (likely over 1000) PCs over the years and I used far too much CPU paste initially. And only over time figured out that the less the better. I you think about it, it also makes sense to use the lease amount that will fill the gaps.

If you are curious, you can do as I did back many years ago now and built and rebuilt a PC on the bench to test my theory.

WildCard999 · Jan 9, 2018

I've had a good experience with MX4 and I can attest to the grain of rice amount. I also use a old store card to spread it evenly and as thin as I can for both my CPU & GPU.

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jan 9, 2018

"Arctic" not Arctic Silver, will never use that garbage xD.. but yes I am definitely going to try the rice grain and spreading when I get home.

Thanks a bunch guys

Will update after I reapply and get some tests going.

EpIckFa1LJoN · Jan 9, 2018

So first off I got lazy and didn't reapply the paste.

However, it seems a miracle has happened.

I am not sure what did it, maybe when I updated the BIOS after the clean install, maybe the clean install itself, maybe stock fan profile idk.

I have updated temps and values.

First off it seems my idle temps are a bit high now, that might be attributed to the paste i'm not sure. But the Stress temps are WAY down.

Idle: About 28C (a solid 5-6C higher than yesterday no idea why. Will do more investigating after this.
Gaming loads: 40-50C, never actually hit 50C on any core. I think the actual max was 48C
Stress: (couldn't find where to get Prime95 v26.6 so I just ran the latest version, small FFT. Maxed out at 78C after about 2 minutes. RealBench (which was actually reccomended by an Intel employee) Maxed out at 66C!!
V-core maxed out at 1.28v

So we can throw everything out the window... unfortunately. I bet it was all the BIOS being outdated or some other software.

In any case my temps are way down and I am actually very confident about moving forward with a modest OC now.

Hopefully when I reapply the paste it will knock it down a few more degrees.

Even got 136k on RealBench. that's about 34% faster than my 6700k with XMP and @4.7GHz. VERY happy now.

WildCard999 · Jan 9, 2018

Nice, glad it worked out for you and at least you have some headroom for a higher overclock.

Prime95 V26.6: http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=15504

8700k OC without deliding?

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