FIrst Water cooled custom loop and I'm having a few pump concerns

Candan

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Jul 27, 2014
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Hey all

So I'm as far as filling the loop with water. This is my first ever custom loop and I went with hard tubing and no leaks! (so far!)

So... The pump drew some water in and filled most of the loop. Gurgle, gurgle

Now everything is full except the very last piece of pipe from the rad back to the reservoir/pump. You can see in the pic.

Now, I just don't know what's happening with the last section of air. It won't come out. The pump has been running for about 6 hours.

The water in the first section of pipe and the water in the reservoir is a little warm now, so this tells me that nothing is pumping. Actually, it's trickling inside the tube, but literally trickling...

I've rocked rolled, tipped and shook it. With the reservoir seal on and off. Nothing has helped.

Please help

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ExSMFBPFTtEx2hOE3

 
Solution
The funny thing is that faalin's description of the XSPC D5 matches the Vario (the one with 3 pin connector and speed dial on the pump).
The PWM variant has no dial, molex (yellow and black wires) and 4pin fan connector (green - PWM and blue - sensing wires).
And that Vario pump really does not require the fan connector to be plugged. Everything I said, is relevant only for PWM variant. Even then it really not for all models. From what I see, newer models are running at 100% without PWM signal.
Anyway, laying the case on the side, should have pushed most of the air into the res. once you have the flow, you can put it back to be standing and add liquid to the res. repeat tilting if necessary.
Not bad at all for a first loop.
If the top port on res is closed, open it.
It's seems like you are using a PWM pump. those might have some problem to run at full speed without proper connection to the MB. so if you have not observed any leaks, try to power on the computer (you might get away without connecting the GPU to the power).
And the obvious step that supposed to help is tilting the case on the side to make it easier for the air to go down to the res. make sure the top port on res is closed before tilting ;)
 
Like nonsense said, crack the top port on the res to let the air out, you basically have a pressurised loop and nothing wants to move.

As for the pump i used the same one on my last build and only plugged it into the PSU and used the speed control on the pump.

When i fill my loop i left the top fill port open and kept adding water to the loop till it was full

0D0zCsv.jpg


 

Candan

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Jul 27, 2014
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Thanks so much for the response. Thanks for the compliment on the first loop! Some of the bends are a little lumpy, but I couldn't wait for my bend tool to arrive from China. It still won't be here for about another 3 weeks! Ugh. But I was too impatient and was dying to get started. I didn't want to do soft tubing, so I took my chances! I did buy extra tubing, so I might have another go a few months down the road!

I'm not using the PWM plug at all. I don't want PWM control on the pump. I see no point. I'm using the molex only. The pump has both PWM and Molex connectors.
Plus, the mobo isn't powered yet. I'm using a clip on the PSU from green to black. Therefore I think I'm getting full speed. But when I look at the pump, I can see the cyclone turbulence a little and hear it so I know it's running. I don't see how powering up the entire rig will clear the block if I'm using molex anyway.

I'll try closing off the res and leaving the case on it's front, top, etc to see. I did this briefly yesterday to no avail.

I don't understand why the pump cannot pull that tiny bit of water through though that's at the bottom of the tube at the pump's intake though.
 
yeah mines a XSPC, but the PWN pumps have a 4 pin molex that will give it 12v full speed, the other 4 pin fan plug is normally green and blue which is a sense and control that he doesnt need if he wants to run at full speed to fill his loop
 

Candan

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Thanks to you too! The D5 pump doesn't have a variable speed switch on it. Just Molex for full power or PWM once I have the mobo powered up. But I won't use the PWM anyway. I see no need to. My opinion is full power on molex is best
 

Candan

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Using a 2 pin Molex on the pump. The other 2 pins are not filled. But as far as I understand the other 2 pins are only +5v and 2nd ground anyway. So I'm using 12v and the full power of the pump as far as I understand

 

Candan

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Hi, I'm not sure I understand the question. The pump has a molex power supply and a 4 pin PWM. I understand that you should use either but not both. I'm already using 12v molex so should be all the power I can give it.

I'll try resting the unit on its side for a while instead of just for a minute. But I'll need to close of the res seal for that. I don't really get how the air can pass through with the res sealed, but hey - I'll give it a shot!

Thanks for your continued help.
 
that's the thing - both molex and 4 pin should be connected.
The molex provides the power (12v and GND) while 4 pin provides PWM signal and returns the pump speed.
Without PWM signal, the pump might not run at full speed.
With only 4pin PWM connected, the pump will not run at all.
 

Candan

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Hmm. I wonder why they'd set it up this way? That means to get the loop to flow, I'd have to power up the CPU and ATX. In that case, am I not taking a risk as I'll have air in my loop and could get stuck in the GPU or CPU block and not essentially cool anything? Then again, I guess I'll only be in the BIOS so won't be pushing much temps through anyway... ?

 
you dont have to have the fan header plugged in, EK changed the wire color blue is speed sense and green is control. If the pump doesnt get a signal from the blue wire it will run at 100%.

if you run the speed wire the motherboard will speed the pump up in relation to the temp of the cpu, the sense is for rpm and if worried if your pump might fail then hook it up to the cpu fan header. if set up in the bios right if the rpm stops it will shut down the computer.

None of my pumps in the 14 years that i have water cooled have i ever hooked up the fan header wires. My XSPC pump comes with a molex for power and a blue wire for rpm sensing, that wire is wadded up with a zip tie behind the motherboard tray.

On a side note, nowhere in the EK pump manual does it say you have to hook up the fan header to make the pump run only the molex.
 
I think it's running around 50% of the full speed without PWM signal. that's enough to deal with "small" air bubbles, but not enough to push out large air pockets like the one in the tube.
there is a trick to fool the pump, but that requires some work from you. all you need to do, is to connect the PWM wire to a 5v from molex connector (the red one).
Anyway, if you have not seen leak so far, it's kinda safe to power the system. coolants and distilled water have very low electrical conductivity when fresh. so even if you spill a bit on the components, nothing terrible will happen.
 

Candan

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Haha Faalin and Nonsense, you're both saying complete opposites! I found nowhere in the manual does it talk about any of the wires at all! Pretty shit manual tbf.

I'm going to try the PWM and boot to bios to see what happens...

I'll be back with good, bad, or fried PC...
 
The funny thing is that faalin's description of the XSPC D5 matches the Vario (the one with 3 pin connector and speed dial on the pump).
The PWM variant has no dial, molex (yellow and black wires) and 4pin fan connector (green - PWM and blue - sensing wires).
And that Vario pump really does not require the fan connector to be plugged. Everything I said, is relevant only for PWM variant. Even then it really not for all models. From what I see, newer models are running at 100% without PWM signal.
Anyway, laying the case on the side, should have pushed most of the air into the res. once you have the flow, you can put it back to be standing and add liquid to the res. repeat tilting if necessary.
 
Solution

Candan

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I left it on its side for a while and it gurgled away a fair bit. Then put the case upright, broke the seal on the res each time I pulled air in. If I didn't, the air would go back around the loop again! Grrrr :D

Anyway, I got it sorted and powered it up. With the PWM plugged in as well as the Molex, I can slow down the pump, but I cannot increase it any further than with just the Molex.

Here's how it looks now https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bsx02sN02FIQFZc03

But now I have a new problem! I've got CPU temps in BIOS of 55 C. Almost 80 C in windows idle. So, time to drain and start over... :(
 
looks cool.
Have you removed the protective film from the cold plate on CPU block ?
is the liquid moving ? you can see it in the res. I don't know where you plugged the fan connector from the pump, it just some motherboards use "silent" profile by default. it could mean that pump is not running or running very slow. it should run above 2000RPM at all times. under load, i'd say ~3000 RPM.

As a side note:
1. your MB have 2 temp sensors headers. get something like this https://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_info.php?products_id=3589 and you can setup fans and pump speed based on liquid temperature - it's the best.
2. your MB has a 3A fan header, way more than D5 evere needs - you can get rid of molex. all you have to do is to connect all 4 wires to a female 4 pin. there are couple of ways to do it.
 

Candan

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Thanks!

Yes on the base sticker. I polished that copper base up real good!

The fan headers I used are SYSFAN1 and SYSFAN4 (for placement) and Molex for the pump of course. I don't need the 3 amp header. The fans are .05 amps each, and I'm only running 3 fans on one and 2 fans on another 1 amp fan header. So I'm good there and have them on full power from the BIOS (I'm not booting to OS.) I am a little nervous of using the 3 amp header for the pump. It could overload the pump and kill it in seconds.

I'll look into that temp fitting, thanks!
 

Candan

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Gotcha. Yeah, I get it on the cables. I still have to manage mine. You should see the back of that rig! Don't look! Hahah

Let me ask you now. Why do you have a freesync monitor with a GTX card? <Bamboozled>
 
Because I don't care for vendor lock ins :)
On a serious note, all those "syncs" are offering improvement only when there is a great fluctuation in FPS (actually frame times).
Since I have a decent CPU (even by today's standards) and a GPU that can handle my games quite fine in 100 FPS range without jumps, I don't need those syncs. When I bought the GTX 1070 it was used with 1920x1200.
Later I needed larger work space and 34" 3440x1440 was the optimal screen size and almost perfect pixel density. At the time I got it, there were only up to 100Hz displays. This one was ~300-400 euro cheaper than G-Sync equivalents. Given that the colors, build quality and response time on this one are better than on Acer Predator line, for me the choice is obvious.
As I mentioned before, those FreeSync/G-Sync are pointless if your system producing more FPS than the monitor's refresh rate or the FPS is not too jumpy.
it just happens that I don't buy into marketing BS, I do my research of what I'm paying for and if I'm going to need it XD
 

Candan

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Yeah makes sense! :)

My 1080 ti set to ultra settings on everything on my X34 @ 3440 x 1440, and then I lock FPS at 97 (3 frames lower than refresh of 100Hz on the X34) Gsync on and Vsync on. Don't let anyone tell you that Gsync should be used without Vsync! The cake is a lie! With both on it's flawless. I can unlock too of course, get frames up to 300, but then all you see is tearing or stutter anyway. Your eye can see no difference in 97 fps or 300 fps. Once over 60fps you'd need to be a machine to see it! But your eyes can see smooth! That's for sure!

On a side. I think I've found my issue with the CPU block. I dismantled last night. The fins on the inside of the copper base are supposed to be perpendicular to the flow from the jet plate. Mine is running the same way, so the water cannot pass over properly... I'll fix it tonight, but I think this is my issue! This could also be a blockage and a big part of the reason why my loop wasn't flowing properly. Worse thing is, I saw this in a YT vid. There's nothing about the orientation of the base in the installation manual. Grrrr
 
From the pictures you've posted, the CPU block is mounted correctly.
The insert and the jet plate also seems to be fine.
I was pretty sure you flushed the radiators before installation. if not, you might need to take the blocks apart to properly clean them.
 

Candan

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The block is correct, the base isn't. Here's how it should be.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/hAZqoBT1mpNFHcwq1

The water direction goes through the jet plate in the direction of arrows. The base plate on my rig is 90 degrees turned, so instead of the water running through the veins on the ribbed base, they're running against the edge so the water is not getting across the block properly, just kinda sneaking its way around the sides.