My first pc build from scratch needs some expert opinions

zvinca.andrei · Jan 27, 2018

Hi there,
I'm working on gathering all the components for my new gaming pc and i've already got a case and psu on the way.

Here's a list of everything else that's going in my new PC :https://pcpartpicker.com/list/WWvv8K

Keep in mind that the GPU is not a new purchase, i'm using my old 970 until prices drop a bit, the power supply is a 650 gold rating model but it's not one from the list provided by pcpartpicker because it's something produced in my country. The PC case is also made here so the manufacturer is not on partpicker's list but it has very positive reviews.

My issue is, will the 650 80+ gold rating psu be enough for those components on my list + 5 case fans (120mm, probably cheap ones) that come with the case. I'm planing on using all 5 of them and that's one of the reasons i went with the b350 gaming plus mobo, 5 case fan connectors, that and the fact i like the idea of pairing my msi gpu with msi mobo.

In theory i know i should have enough power but what happens if i decide that i want to give overclocking a try for the first time. not much, maybe 20-30% on the cpu, give it a bit of a boost, or if i want to use the cooler boost from the msi gaming app.

If overclocking comes up at some point, would a 650 gold rating power supply still be enough for cpu gpu and 5 case fans, or will the psu just burn up in flames? Or maybe it's not enough even for turbo clocking ... i just don't know how pcpartpicker calculates the wattage if it's for stock speeds or if they take into account turbo modes, oc and all that other stuff.

If you're wondering why i'm trying to make this as budget as possible or if you think a 10$ upgrade on one component would be better think of this. Parts over here are at a minimum 25% more expensive than in the US. The SSD is almost 60% more expensive. You get the idea.

Thanks in advance!

Turb0Yoda · Jan 27, 2018

I would suggest using RAM that's ~3000MHz as Ryzen eats up faster RAM. The jump from 2400 MHz to 3000 MHz will be noticable.
650watts would be fine, but B350 boards can't OC too well.
What PSU. Can you provide a specific model number? It would suck to have a crappy PSU take everything out.
Also 1920x1050 doesn't get you 1080p. You'd be stuck at 720p for things like youtube and netflix.

maxalge · Jan 28, 2018

zvinca.andrei :

Hi there,
I'm working on gathering all the components for my new gaming pc and i've already got a case and psu on the way.

Here's a list of everything else that's going in my new PC :https://pcpartpicker.com/list/WWvv8K

Keep in mind that the GPU is not a new purchase, i'm using my old 970 until prices drop a bit, the power supply is a 650 gold rating model but it's not one from the list provided by pcpartpicker because it's something produced in my country. The PC case is also made here so the manufacturer is not on partpicker's list but it has very positive reviews.

My issue is, will the 650 80+ gold rating psu be enough for those components on my list + 5 case fans (120mm, probably cheap ones) that come with the case. I'm planing on using all 5 of them and that's one of the reasons i went with the b350 gaming plus mobo, 5 case fan connectors, that and the fact i like the idea of pairing my msi gpu with msi mobo.

In theory i know i should have enough power but what happens if i decide that i want to give overclocking a try for the first time. not much, maybe 20-30% on the cpu, give it a bit of a boost, or if i want to use the cooler boost from the msi gaming app.

If overclocking comes up at some point, would a 650 gold rating power supply still be enough for cpu gpu and 5 case fans, or will the psu just burn up in flames? Or maybe it's not enough even for turbo clocking ... i just don't know how pcpartpicker calculates the wattage if it's for stock speeds or if they take into account turbo modes, oc and all that other stuff.

If you're wondering why i'm trying to make this as budget as possible or if you think a 10$ upgrade on one component would be better think of this. Parts over here are at a minimum 25% more expensive than in the US. The SSD is almost 60% more expensive. You get the idea.

Thanks in advance!

overkill, so wasted money

550w would be plenty if it was a good quality unit

you should buy something along these lines

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/

DSzymborski · Jan 28, 2018

Definitely going to need the exact information on the PSU to give any kind of advice.

zvinca.andrei · Jan 28, 2018

DSzymborski :

http://www.njoy.ro/PSU/woden-650

@XxD34THxX: i said something about budget and increased prices in my country. i know what ram would be better but that's not something i can afford considering how many parts i already have to buy. only my gpu and hdd will remain from the old configuration. besides, i don't need a UFO pc, i just want something that can play modern titles without burning up or freezing if i alt-tab to chrome to check my email. something that can keep me in the medium-gaming range for 2-3 more years. then i'll be able to change the gpu and the ram to give it a boost. 1-2 more years after that, change cpu again if needed. etc.

@maxalge: that mobo won't support ryzen 5 out of box. talked to the retailer and they're also not going to do a bios update for me. it's also almost twice as much as the 350 gaming plus.

DSzymborski · Jan 28, 2018

Yeah, I'd replace that PSU. Obscure off-brand and there's no actual listing in 80 Plus for this particular PSU.

zvinca.andrei · Jan 28, 2018

DSzymborski :

the psu comes with awesome reviews across the country and the manufacturers also sell plenty of psu models to faculty servers and stuff like that without receiving negative feedback, Another reason it's used a lot in my country is its price tag. it's only sold locally and probably a few neighbor countries in small quantities so i very much doubt you'll find it on US or international benchmark sites.

my biggest issue is not the brand of the psu it is the wattage. i'm going to use a lot of fans which i assume add up to a lot. cpu fan + 5 case fans (as cheap and low power draining as they may be) i'm not expecting the config to push past 500W even with the extra fans but i don't know what happens when a bit of oc is introduced. I'm also guessing that with a 88% rating the psu will probably work at a flat 600?

Say i want to boost my ryzen to 3.7 from 3.2, and keep it always as its turbo speed, and boost my gtx a bit too with the afterburner. I don't want max speeds or anything like that, just a gentle nudge enough to make a difference of maybe 5- 10 fps for a game that won't go over 50-55 fps at base clock.

For something like that how much extra wattage would i need over the 500 that already covers everything at stock speeds. That's the stuff is still don't really understand, the exponential growth of power consumption once OC is introduced into the mix. Don't read too much into that psu, if you really hate the off-brand, use another 88% rating 650 psu as a reference and explain the math on that one.

ps: maybe i should've been more clear in the initial post. sorrry. just so many things going through my head at the moment as i'm trying to finish the config and put in the final order.

maxalge · Jan 28, 2018

zvinca.andrei :

if that psu is not listed on the website then its claims of "80+ gold" are a lie
and since there are no reviews from an actual properly regarded source that puts even more of an onus on it

most likely it cannot produce the wattage it claims and internally is no better than chinese crap

the psu is the single most important component in a computer, this is NOT where you water down the milk

garbage is garbage regardless of where it comes from, buy only properly reviewed units

a TRUE good 550w unit would have no issues running the specs you listed

zvinca.andrei · Jan 28, 2018

"a TRUE good 550w unit would have no issues running the specs you listed"

even with the oc and all the fans and all that stuff that adds up? i wouldn't want a "TRUE good 550W" psu if it always runs at maximum capacity heats up and spins like crazy. that's why i need the info on how wattage applies once oc is introduced.

the evga you recommended is 200$ here and currently out of stock.

would a Thermaltake TR2 S 600W, 80 Plus be better? it's only slightly higher in price than the one i've picked and i may still have time to change the order as it's not yet been released to a courier.

DSzymborski · Jan 28, 2018

zvinca.andrei :

OK, then, link one. With "awesome reviews across the country," it ought to be a simple task. The efficiency is one of the least important things about the PSU and even if we pretended it was, this PSU doesn't appear to be in the official 80 Plus database. It's not uncommon at all for dodgy manufacturers to play fabrication games like this.

Reminder: If it's not done like this, it's not a power supply review.

If you're not prepared for an answer you don't like, then don't ask the question.

zvinca.andrei · Jan 28, 2018

It's not that I don't appreciate the many replies but the one thing i really needed to know is the total wattage i might need if my configuration was to introduce OC. Since i still have a few hours left until i can't change my order, i will try and change the psu since it looks like it has everyone fired up about it

. The reason i went for more W is because i thought that's more important than paying more for a brand-psu with less W. But my W knowledge is almost 0.

So, for my budget the only options i can swap the psu for are:

1. Corsair CX Series CX550, 550W, 80 Plus Bronze
2. Thermaltake TR2 S 600W, 80 Plus, ATX
3. Seasonic S12II-520 Bronze, ATX12V, 520W

these are all around 10-20$ more than the one i picked so i can work with that.

Should i just go for seasonic and get it over with? the corsair had some reviews stating that it died after one year. the warranty will cover that no problem but still..

ps: fyi, i've been using https://www.inter-tech.de/en/products/psu/atx/eps-750 for about 4 years now with no issues other than it heating up because of the bad airflow in my old case. that and some noise but i'm not too picky when it comes to noise from the case. i'd rather it works perfectly and roars like an airplane than be all quiet, hot, and slow.

Aeacus · Jan 28, 2018

Did some high level digging and found one local Romanian guy who did the video unboxing of Njoy Woden 650W,
link: http://hmongdownloadyoutube.com/video/3OK93YFKk48

I don't know about you guys, but for me, that PSU looks too empty in the inside. Also, the marketing of that unit looks too good to be true (e.g 700W peak power for 60 seconds). And when it looks to good to be true, it usually isn't true.

About wattage.
GTX 970 is 145W GPU, add the rest of the system to it at about 200W and most what you're looking for is 345W. Even if you OC your CPU/GPU, max what your PC (with 5x fans) would consume is about 400W. So, 500W PSU is more than enough for your PC.

As far as pricing goes, Njoy Woden 650W costs 234.99 RON,
source: https://www.pcgarage.ro/surse/njoy/woden-650w/

While far better quality and also fully-modular Seasonic M12II-520 EVO costs 319.48 RON,
source: https://www.pcgarage.ro/surse/seasonic/m12ii-520-evo-edition-bronze-520w/

If you're fine with fully-wired PSU but don't want to pay more than your beloved Njoy costs, then Seasonic SS-500ET F3 industrial PSU comes to you with 233.99 RON,
source: https://www.pcgarage.ro/surse/seasonic/ss-500et-f3/
(All my 3 PCs: Skylake, Haswell and AMD are also powered by Seasonic. Full specs with pics in my sig.)

Different persons have different standards (some have higher standards while others have lower standards) and it's up to every person to decide how good of a build quality components are safe to use in their PC. But keep in mind that PSU is the most important component inside the PC since it powers everything.
So, if you still want to go with your Njoy PSU, feel free to do so but keep the fire extinguisher at hand. Also, do record a video when your PSU blows up since i love to see some good fireworks, just like seen here,
youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezk9OA7aKOE

Few words about Cooler Boost feature in MSI Gaming App.
What Cooler Boost does, is that it will force your MSI GPU fans to run 100% for a 40 seconds or so. Take it as a on demand manual cooling of your GPU that you can activate at any point via MSI Gaming App.
I found it to be a great way to test how loud my MSI Gaming X GPU fans are when they run 100%. Other than that, there's no other use of Cooler Boost for me.

madmatt30 · Jan 28, 2018

Out of those listed Id personally take the corsair cx550.

Ive seen no reports of these dying after a year , infact that particular model only came out march 2017 which is less than a year ago.

The seasonic is also a very good unit but that corsair is a more modern dc-dc unit & offers an extra 50-60w on the 12v rail where it matters.

zvinca.andrei · Jan 28, 2018

Aeacus :

Did some high level digging and found one local Romanian guy who did the video unboxing of Njoy Woden 650W,
link: http://hmongdownloadyoutube.com/video/3OK93YFKk48

I don't know about you guys, but for me, that PSU looks too empty in the inside. Also, the marketing of that unit looks too good to be true (e.g 700W peak power for 60 seconds). And when it looks to good to be true, it usually isn't true.

About wattage.
GTX 970 is 145W GPU, add the rest of the system to it at about 200W and most what you're looking for is 345W. Even if you OC your CPU/GPU, max what your PC (with 5x fans) would consume is about 400W. So, 500W PSU is more than enough for your PC.

As far as pricing goes, Njoy Woden 650W costs 234.99 RON,
source: https://www.pcgarage.ro/surse/njoy/woden-650w/

While far better quality and also fully-modular Seasonic M12II-520 EVO costs 319.48 RON,
source: https://www.pcgarage.ro/surse/seasonic/m12ii-520-evo-edition-bronze-520w/

If you're fine with fully-wired PSU but don't want to pay more than your beloved Njoy costs, then Seasonic SS-500ET F3 industrial PSU comes to you with 233.99 RON,
source: https://www.pcgarage.ro/surse/seasonic/ss-500et-f3/
(All my 3 PCs: Skylake, Haswell and AMD are also powered by Seasonic. Full specs with pics in my sig.)

Different persons have different standards (some have higher standards while others have lower standards) and it's up to every person to decide how good of a build quality components are safe to use in their PC. But keep in mind that PSU is the most important component inside the PC since it powers everything.
So, if you still want to go with your Njoy PSU, feel free to do so but keep the fire extinguisher at hand. Also, do record a video when your PSU blows up since i love to see some good fireworks, just like seen here,
youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezk9OA7aKOE

Few words about Cooler Boost feature in MSI Gaming App.
What Cooler Boost does, is that it will force your MSI GPU fans to run 100% for a 40 seconds or so. Take it as a on demand manual cooling of your GPU that you can activate at any point via MSI Gaming App.
I found it to be a great way to test how loud my MSI Gaming X GPU fans are when they run 100%. Other than that, there's no other use of Cooler Boost for me.

Thanks for taking the time. That's sums up all I needed to hear and more with the MSI extra information. I found a discounted version of the seasonic m12ii-520-evo-edition-bronze-520w which i can probably swing. On the retailer site i'm looking at i don't see much of a difference between the s12 and m12 edition, apart for some extra wiring on the s12.

Either way, not gonna not follow the advice of the "Homebuilt System Authority". Thanks a lot to you and everyone else. Will post a pic or video the first boot, in about 2 weeks time.

Aeacus · Jan 28, 2018

Seasonic S12II series PSUs are fully-wired and it will give you a nice headache in cable management. I know it first hand since my AMD build is also powered by S12II-520 PSU.
Seasonic M12II EVO series are fully-modular and cable management with it is a breeze. My Haswell build is also powered by M12II EVO series PSU but mine is 850W.
Other than that, both PSUs are still good quality units and if you don't care about cable management, pick the one that's cheaper to save some money.

zvinca.andrei · Jan 28, 2018

FYI this is the case: http://www.njoy.ro/cases/ice-cage

Not yet sure how the wire management is going to be in it but the glass is on the left side which also happens to be the side i keep my case anyway. left to the monitor. if it turns out it looks bad no one will see it anyway. i was just happy i found a decent sized case with enough fans to give me a positive airflow. my curent case is a nightmare with only two fans 1 up 1 back which is horrible for temp control. guess i'm lucky i don't oc anything, not that my mobo or 3rd gen i5 support oc anyway

maxalge · Jan 28, 2018

zvinca.andrei :

LOL. i'll say it again a GOOD 550w unit will EASILY run those specs, OC included

you must be used to garbage psu's

for example, most of the so called "700w" offbrand psu's are actually rebranded chinese 300w crap IF you are lucky

good advice on the seasonic units

zvinca.andrei · Jan 28, 2018

maxalge :

it's not about what i'm used too

it's the limited understanding i have when it comes to wattage calculations on stock vs oc clocks. that's the whole reason i decided to post here before buying everything and starting to assemble the config. found a lot of good answers on these forums over the years and i thought now is as good a time as any to ask a personalized question.

makes it easier for me to understand replies that specifically cater to my needs than browsing countless other threads and trying to make sense of this from multiple sources and with multiple configurations. in time i'll learn more. if my first build turns up ok i might be interested in saving up more money in the future and doing this again.

building pcs doesn't look so boring as i once thought it did. and it's certainly cheaper than buying premade systems.

Aeacus · Jan 28, 2018

zvinca.andrei :

With fully-wired PSU, you can't take off the unused power cables from the PSU and you need to find space inside the PC case where to store all those unused power cables. That's why fully-wired PSUs give a headache in cable management.
But with semi- and fully-modular PSU, you can choose which power cables you connect to your PSU, leaving all unused power cables unconnected and outside of your PC, in the PSU's retail box. This reduces cable clutter and eases cable management.

Btw, if you mount all 7x fans inside your PC with proper airflow in mind (front & bottom - intake; top & rear - exhaust) and run all fans at the same speed, you're looking towards negative pressure. Which in cooling aspect is better than positive pressure but it's drawback is that more dust enters your system.

zvinca.andrei · Jan 28, 2018

i was thinking i should have front 3 intake and top/rear exhaust. i was under the impression that the psu fan is an exhaust fan so it will push air under the case. the setup i saw in my head was 3 front- 1 back and at the top near the cpu fan and another exhaust fan on the top of the case which i though would help pull hot air pushed by the gpu. for the bottom of the case i just thought that's for the psu fan to push air out since i don't see too much space between the desk and the case to take in any good amount of air.

madmatt30 · Jan 28, 2018

That case is branded by game max in the uk & its a very decent budget case.

Has a full length psu shroud & a good 20mm behind the motherboard tray so keeping cables tidy even on a non modular psu is not going to be an issue at all.
It comes with 3 intakes & 2 exhausts so you don't need to add any extra cooling.

The bottom mount psu - fan faces outwards to the bottom of the case .

The psu fan draws air in & exhausts out the rear of the psu .

The idea of this is to totally isolate psu heat from the rest of the system, the psu fans only purpose is to keep the psu internals cool under load.

zvinca.andrei · Jan 28, 2018

madmatt30 :

so the psu intake/exhaust works backwards of what i thought. good to know. at least i wasn't planing on positioning it in a different way. though, since it's drawing air from under the case would it help if it could raise the case a bit more?

madmatt30 · Jan 28, 2018

Case feet are plenty high enough for the psu to draw in air - as long as its going to be sitting on a hard surface & not carpet.

The stock fan configuration in that case , especially with a downblowing cooler like the wraith spire that comes with the ryzens - that top exhaust wants moving to the back fan slot (comes fitted in the centre one out of the box) - itll do a better job moved back a slot.

zvinca.andrei · Jan 28, 2018

so both rear and top are essentially pulling air out of the case from the same spot. makes sense.
i guess that should also help with the gpu since the board is pretty big and i think it blows directly into the cpu. i don't think it pushes air downwards. but the 970 served me well for over 2 years now, rarely saw it go past 70-75C.
as i'll learn more about this stuff and i save more money i might upgrade to an alternative cpu cooler. i don't know what they're called but i see them mounted with brackets on top of the cpu and connected directly to one of the case exhausts, usually the rear. those seem very interesting and clearly more efficient but also overkill for me at the moment. especially on a budget build.

madmatt30 · Jan 28, 2018

zvinca.andrei :

You mean a water cooled AIO & for me (& many others) the general concensus is that unless you absolutely want it for the aesthetics then they perform no better than a decent air cooler.

The ryzen 1600 stock cooler is insanely good for free & you honestly wont need to replace it at all.
In that case with 3 intakes & 2 exhausts I dubt youll see max temps much above 60c on both the cpu & gpu.

Its going to be a far cry from what you're used to in your current case.

My first pc build from scratch needs some expert opinions

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