How much watt

millibrixx · Feb 15, 2018

I wanna have a i7-7700k a new motherboard and cooler My PSU is 650M Bronze is it posable to make it with 650 watt like with Asus STRIX Z270F Gaming or the MSI Z270 SLI PLUS motherboard I dont know does someone have tips and know what is posable to have a new motherboard cpu and MAYBE cooler

Dark Lord of Tech · Feb 15, 2018

Yes it should be compatible .

fry178 · Feb 15, 2018

I would still try to find something better, as the (i assume) corsair isnt bad, but not a great unit either.
The psu is the most important part, as NOTHING will work without it.

I had couple of psu fail over the years, and none of the higher quality ones did anything but die alone.
Cant say that for the (bronze rated) corsair/superflower etc i had.

In general i would recommend a seasonic/corsair thats platinum/gold rated, but prefer the evga G3/P3 series,
as they are on par/better than same priced units from other brands.

But without knowing what gpu your gonna use, if you want to oc etc, its hard to say what wattage makes sense,
as you want the psu to have about twice as much power as needed.
Psu's are usually most efficient around 50% load, so something around 650-750w would be a good idea.

I added the gpu just for wattage total..
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/WscscY

But why intel? unless your playing at 1080p or below, or are running 120/144Hz screen,
ryzen would be better long term (cpu upgrade on same socket), comes with a better board, and also a bit cheaper..

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/

millibrixx · Feb 15, 2018

Thanks amazing to hear

lakimens · Feb 15, 2018

I love it how sometimes people only hear what they want to hear

millibrixx · Feb 15, 2018

lakimens :

yep

Dark Lord of Tech · Feb 15, 2018

millibrixx :

Glad to help!

g-unit1111 · Feb 15, 2018

fry178 :

What? Please elaborate on this. Just about any benchmark you search will show Intel has better numbers even with the Ryzen platform. In what way is Ryzen better long term?

fry178 · Feb 15, 2018

As 1080p gaming is usually cpu bound, intels 8xxx series is ahead, because of higher ST.
As soon as you compare 7xxx and/or start playing at 1440p or higher, intel is NOT faster, maybe one here and there when a game is cpu dependent.
(except of course for ppl drinking blue kool aid ;-)

Do you think now that amd flooded the market with multi-core proc, that software and games will be kept "locked/optimized" ST aka intel, or for MT?
Do you think using intel will allow you to upgrade the cpu to the newest tech in lets say 2-5y WITHOUT changing socket?
Doubt it.
This makes amd more viable for ppl not willing to replace the board with every cpu upgrade, just because the company behind it, can make you to.

g-unit1111 · Feb 15, 2018

fry178 :

Do you have proof of this? Any benchmarks at all? Claims do nothing if you don't have proof to back it up.

IInuyasha74 · Feb 15, 2018

I think you need to do a bit more research fry178. Game developers do not focus on creating single-threaded games anymore. That hasn't been the standard for nearly a decade.

As 1080p gaming is usually cpu bound, intels 8xxx series is ahead, because of higher ST.
As soon as you compare 7xxx and/or start playing at 1440p or higher, intel is NOT faster, maybe one here and there when a game is cpu dependent.

Increasing the resolution doesn't make a game switch from being single-threaded to being multi-threaded. That doesn't make sense. It just changes the resolution. It is true that if you're playing a game and the CPU is bottlenecking your GPU that the performance impact from increasing resolution will be less significant, as increasing the resolution won't affect the CPU's work load while increasing the work required by the GPU.

If an Intel CPU performs better than an AMD CPU in a game at one resolution, it will continue to do so regardless of what resolution you set. This is because the change in resolution doesn't affect the CPU at all.

But why intel? unless your playing at 1080p or below, or are running 120/144Hz screen,
ryzen would be better long term (cpu upgrade on same socket), comes with a better board, and also a bit cheaper..

Neither Intel or AMD have better motherboards. That just doesn't make sense. There are both good and bad motherboards available from both platforms. Ryzen also will not be better long term. The faster a CPU is, generally the longer you can use it before you need to upgrade. In most tests, Intel is still ahead of AMD, but not by a large margin, so both CPUs will likely last about the same amount of time before needing replaced.

The point about upgrade is mute as well. Most will not upgrade their CPUs nowadays unless they start with a low-end CPU to begin with. If someone buys the likes of a Ryzen 7 1700, in a few years when it would be time for an upgrade the AM4 socket will probably be retired or EOL, and it would make far more sense at that point to upgrade to whatever replaces it. That doesn't mean AMD is bad. AMD's Ryzen CPUs have excellent performance and prices, but basically everything else said by fry178 is incorrect.

fry178 · Feb 15, 2018

@g-unit1111
I wont waste my time anymore on "proving" anything to someone else, except for the following:
(besides: using google and reading reviews from sites that are known not to biased (for whatever reason) worked for me).

e.g. game benches are nice to see real-world numbers, but not to compare between different hardware,
and one reason why i prefer synthetic benchmarks (read "repeatable/fixed" scenes).

one example:
this is in P-mode, which usually favors intels (with higher ST),. and its even a 7740, not a 7700.
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/intel_core_i7_7740x_processor_review,15.html

@IInuyasha74
where do i state that they only optimize for ST?
where do i say ST turns to MT when running higher res?
My problem is, that ppl are comparing something that has been on the market for multiple years (core arc; and software/drivers/games were mainly optimized for them), to something thats been released a year ago, and expect it to perform as good right out of the box...

once you pass 1080p and with a decent card, fps will be identical or some times better on the ryzen platform.
looked at reviews running games at 1440p??

and i didnt say amd has better boards, just that if he chooses the ryzen cpu, you can get a better board while total price is still lower than intel based solution.

And i know more customers that upgrade an amd based rig, than intel.
So for most ppl that dont have "unlimited" funds, amd allows for a cpu upgrade in a few years, when intel requires a new chip/board almost every release now.

g-unit1111 · Feb 15, 2018

fry178 :

I read just about every tech blog out there, and I've never seen one benchmark that says that AMD performs better than Intel, even with the current Ryzen platform. That might be the first benchmark I've seen that says that Ryzen beats Intel - but it's not by a huge margin. Ryzen may come close in a few areas but it still doesn't top Intel when it comes to gaming.

And i know more customers that upgrade an amd based rig, than intel.
So for most ppl that dont have "unlimited" funds, amd allows for a cpu upgrade in a few years, when intel requires a new chip/board almost every release now

So this is based on personal experience then? If you have to upgrade with every new platform you're doing it wrong. You really don't need to buy a new motherboard and CPU every year. And have you seen the latest AMD releases? That might have applied with FX and it might still ring true with Ryzen - but there might be a new socket with Ryzen 2 and Ryzen G - but you still don't need to buy a new CPU with every release.

fry178 · Feb 15, 2018

Its not so much about one beating the other, as i want ppl to realize that once you go past 1080p res (which most i7/R7 users do),
there is virtually no difference between the two brands.
proof are friends/ppl i know/customers/other forums that had i7 before switching to ryzen.

What i meant was intel requires a new chipset (maybe not socket) for every new cpu series they released,
basically requiring users to upgrade the board every time.

g-unit1111 · Feb 15, 2018

fry178 :

Not true at all. The current Z270s can run on Z170 boards. Z97 could run on Z87 boards. It's usually every other generation that requires a new board. At least currently. Z470 will probably also be able to run on the Z370 boards.

IInuyasha74 · Feb 15, 2018

@IInuyasha74
where do i state that they only optimize for ST?
where do i say ST turns to MT when running higher res?

You said:

As 1080p gaming is usually cpu bound, intels 8xxx series is ahead, because of higher ST. As soon as you compare 7xxx and/or start playing at 1440p or higher, intel is NOT faster, maybe one here and there when a game is cpu dependent.

These statements imply that you believe AMD performs better at 1440p and higher because it has more cores. The only way this would be possible is if the game took advantage of the extra cores at higher resolutions in a way that the game is incapable of doing at 1080p.

By stating that Intel's 8000 series also performs better than Ryzen at 1080p, but worse at 1440p and higher, and by stating that this is due to Intel's single-threaded performance advantage, you reinforce the above idea that somehow games at 1080p are incapable of utilizing the additional cores found in Ryzen CPUs the same as they can at 1440p.

Perhaps you misspoke, and I hope you did, because your statement is completely wrong as is.

once you pass 1080p and with a decent card, fps will be identical or some times better on the ryzen platform.
looked at reviews running games at 1440p??

You mean this review:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-1800x-cpu,4951-6.html

Ashes Of the Singularity
1080p:
i7-7700K = 84.7 FPS
Ryzen 7 1800X = 70.9 FPS

1440p:
i7-7700K = 87.5 FPS
Ryzen 7 1800X = 69.6 FPS

Hitman
1080p:
i7-7700K = 106.3 FPS
Ryzen 7 1800X = 96.7 FPS

1440p:
i7-7700K = 90.9 FPS
Ryzen 7 1800X = 86.2 FPS

It's true in some games they perform essentially the same, like Battlefield 4, but the point is Intel outperforms in some games, while AMD doesn't really beat Intel in any.

and i didnt say amd has better boards, just that if he chooses the ryzen cpu, you can get a better board while total price is still lower than intel based solution.

No, your direct statement was:

ryzen would be better long term (cpu upgrade on same socket), comes with a better board,

You directly said AMD has better motherboards. No question. Yes you sometimes can get a better AMD motherboard for the price, but that isn't what you said.

And i know more customers that upgrade an amd based rig, than intel.

What if any proof do you have of this?

So for most ppl that dont have "unlimited" funds, amd allows for a cpu upgrade in a few years, when intel requires a new chip/board almost every release now.

If they have limited funds and buy a low-end CPU like a Ryzen 3 or Intel Core i3, then there is an upgrade option available with both platforms. But if they buy a high-end CPU for either platform, there almost won't be a point to upgrade as by the time the CPU falls far enough behind in performance to warrant an upgrade, a new and better platform will be available.

@millibrixx: Sorry this debate has sort of over run your thread, but please consider a Ryzen or Z370 build instead. Ryzen will be cheaper and be performance competitive, and a Z370 motherboard will open you up to Intel CPUs with 6-cores instead of 4. A Core i5-8600K will perform better than the i7-7700K in a lot of scenarios due to the extra cores, and it is also less expensive. or if you can afford it, the i7-8700K is an option too.

Darkbreeze · Feb 15, 2018

fry178 :

There has only been ONE release relevant to the Intel mainstream consumer platforms, ONE, in the last seven or eight years or so, than required a new motherboard even though it was the same basic socket family. ONE. Coffee lake.

Kaby didn't. Skylake was a new socket. Broadwell doesn't count, because there was never any widespread release. Haswell refresh didn't. Haswell was a new socket. Ivy didn't. Sandy was a new socket.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that a new chip/board is required every release now, but it makes about as much sense as the rest of what you are saying so it's unsurprising I guess.

Darkbreeze · Feb 15, 2018

IInuyasha74 :

Oops. There is no such thing. You either meant i3-8350k or i5-8600k. Pretty sure you meant i5, either 8400 or 8600k.

IInuyasha74 · Feb 15, 2018

Darkbreeze :

Woops, yea totally meant the i5-8600K. Thanks for catching that!

yea, Millibrixx, you would be better off going with that probably than an i7-7700K. Unless you already have a Z270 motherboard, but it doesn't appear that you do.

millibrixx · Feb 16, 2018

fry178 :

I would still try to find something better, as the (i assume) corsair isnt bad, but not a great unit either.
The psu is the most important part, as NOTHING will work without it.

I had couple of psu fail over the years, and none of the higher quality ones did anything but die alone.
Cant say that for the (bronze rated) corsair/superflower etc i had.

In general i would recommend a seasonic/corsair thats platinum/gold rated, but prefer the evga G3/P3 series,
as they are on par/better than same priced units from other brands.

But without knowing what gpu your gonna use, if you want to oc etc, its hard to say what wattage makes sense,
as you want the psu to have about twice as much power as needed.
Psu's are usually most efficient around 50% load, so something around 650-750w would be a good idea.

I added the gpu just for wattage total..
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/WscscY

But why intel? unless your playing at 1080p or below, or are running 120/144Hz screen,
ryzen would be better long term (cpu upgrade on same socket), comes with a better board, and also a bit cheaper..

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/

Thank but I have already a pc and I want to upgrade tothat cpu not a amd than for all that info I realy can do sometihng now

IInuyasha74 · Feb 16, 2018

So you already have a motherboard?

fry178 · Feb 16, 2018

@IInuyasha74
yes, i misspoke.
yet, i dont see it making sense to spend more money (especially to get an unlocked cpu) for 2-5fps more (@1440p).
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_ryzen_7_1700x_review,16.html
keep locking at the other games after that as well, i dont see any big difference for intel.

and real world use: going from intel and 32gb, to 1700 with 16gb, minimum fps gained about 5-10fps in most games (1440p@144Hz, 1080ti)
unfortunately i dont know anyone else running intel and 1080ti/1440p and/or144Hz to have more rigs to compare.

@darkbreeze
so your saying ALL features a cpu comes with, is supported by the chipset/board released for a previous chip?
asfair the 7xxx needs 270 chip for at least for optan to work, not on 170 chipset.
same with 8xxx, that needs the 370, which to me means the user has to buy a new board and cant just put it on the existing one,
if you want everything (the cpu can do) supported.

so since 8xx chip we had 1156/1155/1151 for sockets, amd had one, maybe 2 if you count am3+
how long was the am3/+ able to support new released cpus without limiting features?
i doubt they gonna shorten that for am4, so on the long run, someone not buying the biggest cpu from the beginning, can do an upgrade in 2-3y without new board.

didnt wanna get it this much ot, so im out ..

Darkbreeze · Feb 16, 2018

This conversation was not about motherboard features from chipset to chipset, neither was your comment, and you know that. Don't act like it was. It wasn't.

That's an entirely different conversation. You comments were pointedly about whether the CPU was supported or not. You know that, I know that, everybody in this thread knows that. Stop playing bait and switch games. You'll find it is not profitable.

millibrixx · Feb 17, 2018

IInuyasha74 :

@IInuyasha74
where do i state that they only optimize for ST?
where do i say ST turns to MT when running higher res?

You said:

As 1080p gaming is usually cpu bound, intels 8xxx series is ahead, because of higher ST. As soon as you compare 7xxx and/or start playing at 1440p or higher, intel is NOT faster, maybe one here and there when a game is cpu dependent.

These statements imply that you believe AMD performs better at 1440p and higher because it has more cores. The only way this would be possible is if the game took advantage of the extra cores at higher resolutions in a way that the game is incapable of doing at 1080p.

By stating that Intel's 8000 series also performs better than Ryzen at 1080p, but worse at 1440p and higher, and by stating that this is due to Intel's single-threaded performance advantage, you reinforce the above idea that somehow games at 1080p are incapable of utilizing the additional cores found in Ryzen CPUs the same as they can at 1440p.

Perhaps you misspoke, and I hope you did, because your statement is completely wrong as is.

once you pass 1080p and with a decent card, fps will be identical or some times better on the ryzen platform.
looked at reviews running games at 1440p??

You mean this review:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-1800x-cpu,4951-6.html

Ashes Of the Singularity
1080p:
i7-7700K = 84.7 FPS
Ryzen 7 1800X = 70.9 FPS

1440p:
i7-7700K = 87.5 FPS
Ryzen 7 1800X = 69.6 FPS

Hitman
1080p:
i7-7700K = 106.3 FPS
Ryzen 7 1800X = 96.7 FPS

1440p:
i7-7700K = 90.9 FPS
Ryzen 7 1800X = 86.2 FPS

It's true in some games they perform essentially the same, like Battlefield 4, but the point is Intel outperforms in some games, while AMD doesn't really beat Intel in any.

and i didnt say amd has better boards, just that if he chooses the ryzen cpu, you can get a better board while total price is still lower than intel based solution.

No, your direct statement was:

ryzen would be better long term (cpu upgrade on same socket), comes with a better board,

You directly said AMD has better motherboards. No question. Yes you sometimes can get a better AMD motherboard for the price, but that isn't what you said.

And i know more customers that upgrade an amd based rig, than intel.

What if any proof do you have of this?

So for most ppl that dont have "unlimited" funds, amd allows for a cpu upgrade in a few years, when intel requires a new chip/board almost every release now.

If they have limited funds and buy a low-end CPU like a Ryzen 3 or Intel Core i3, then there is an upgrade option available with both platforms. But if they buy a high-end CPU for either platform, there almost won't be a point to upgrade as by the time the CPU falls far enough behind in performance to warrant an upgrade, a new and better platform will be available.

@millibrixx: Sorry this debate has sort of over run your thread, but please consider a Ryzen or Z370 build instead. Ryzen will be cheaper and be performance competitive, and a Z370 motherboard will open you up to Intel CPUs with 6-cores instead of 4. A Core i5-8600K will perform better than the i7-7700K in a lot of scenarios due to the extra cores, and it is also less expensive. or if you can afford it, the i7-8700K is an option too.

IInuyasha74 :

I dont have a Z270 Motherboard but if you suggest to go for the coffee like I can watch some thinks what for motherboard do you think is good for the coffee like version and if it is too exspensive maybe I still go for Z270 BUT i open for suggestions

is the ASUS ROG STRIX Z370-H GAMING a good Motherboard and if I change my Motherboard do I need to change something else i know my cpu but what more?

IInuyasha74 · Feb 17, 2018

You might try the MSI Z370 SLI Plus on this page:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/best-deals,30458.html

It's on sale right now and a solid motherboard. Sits at about $100.

Then you could go about $350 for the Intel Core i7-8700K, which has six cores and Hyper-Threading, or you can go for the $250 Core i5-8600K with six cores and no Hyper-Threading. Both have more processing power than the i7-7700K thanks to the extra cores.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117825
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117827

Just no real reason to invest in Z270 and the i7-7700K with it being slower and already a dying platform. Not when the faster and newer option is around the same price.

How much watt

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