Nvidia's rumored plan to create a "mining" gfx card segment

morpheas768

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Source: https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/nvidia-turing-ampere-graphics-cards-gtc-2018/

So, if these rumors are correct, Nvidia aims to create a new line of graphics cards marketed towards crypto miners.
They want to divide the market in order to alleviate some of the pressure from gaming cards, by giving miners exactly what they want: Cards that are best suited for mining
If all of that is correct, then finally the gaming graphics cards prices will start to go down, and become more affordable and I wont hate Cryptomining and miners as much as I already do :p

I sincerely hope that AMD follows suit and does as Nvidia does, because if they dont, AMD will suffer in sales, and as a result us consumers will suffer as well.

I strongly support Nvidia's decision to create a new segment for graphics cards, marketed towards miners and having cards that will be designed for and be most efficient at mining.....IF the rumor is true.
It seems like the only logical solution to fix the problem, in a competitive market system where cryptomining is thriving, and speculation indicates that the trend will continue in the next few years at least.

What do you guys think about all of this?
Do you think that "nvidia's plan" is true?
Do you think its a bad business decision if it is true?

I genuinely want to know what people think about this,
thanks.
 
Solution
Honestly i don't think nvidia have too much issue about supplying the cards. Problem is nvidia is about to release new gpu. To avoid oversupplying the market and have to do official price cut they usually stop production of their gpu much earlier (there are talks about nvidia already stop producing GP102 in november last year when GTX2080 probably not coming out until mid this year). Nvidia is one of TSMC major partner. if they want increased manufacturing capacity they will probably will get their it at the expense of other company capacity just like what happen back in 2012 where TSMC give some of Qualcomm and AMD initial capacity to nvidia. Not to mention right now Nvidia is fabbing their GPU at TSMC and samsung. Going forward i...

Dunlop0078

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My only problem with that is that if mining continues to be profitable how is nvidia even going to make enough cards? I don't think they have the production capacity for that. The mining cards and gaming cards are going to be made in the same factory's, so either way unless nvidia can flood the market with GPU's cards are still going to sell out and prices are still going to be high.

It is also very risky for nvidia or AMD to ramp up production of GPU's significantly, cryptocurrency is very volatile if it plummets again then the market will be flooded with way more new and used cards than nvidia and retailers can sell. Unfortunately I don't think having cards specifically for mining is going to do much.
 

morpheas768

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I see. That is a good point actually, and you are correct that it is a very volatile market.

It seems like the best way to tackle this, would be to try and predict the periods of boom and bust in the cryptomining card sales?

As for the capability of producing enough GPUs, I am not sure about AMD, but Nvidia definitely seems to have the resources for that. Its only a matter of allocating the budget for it.

I remember a while back, some representative of AMD was interviewed, saying that they aim to increase graphics card production for their next gen cards to come in 2018.

https://www.polygon.com/2018/1/30/16952964/amd-radeon-gpu-supply-shortage-cryptocurrency-mining
 
Honestly i don't think nvidia have too much issue about supplying the cards. Problem is nvidia is about to release new gpu. To avoid oversupplying the market and have to do official price cut they usually stop production of their gpu much earlier (there are talks about nvidia already stop producing GP102 in november last year when GTX2080 probably not coming out until mid this year). Nvidia is one of TSMC major partner. if they want increased manufacturing capacity they will probably will get their it at the expense of other company capacity just like what happen back in 2012 where TSMC give some of Qualcomm and AMD initial capacity to nvidia. Not to mention right now Nvidia is fabbing their GPU at TSMC and samsung. Going forward i believe we might see more nvidia GPU being fab at samsung so nvidia can keep up with demand.

About the mining specific GPU i think it only make sense if they purposely restrict their gaming gpu performance on mining. Some people definitely not going to like this especially those that mine as a hobby or as a meant to "pay" their hardware initial cost. But i still hope (my wishful thinking) nvidia to really do their best to cripple mining performance on their gaming card.
 
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morpheas768

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I see. So what you're basically saying is that there's no way Nvidia can predict what the market is going to be like a year later, so its more or less just a gamble.

Your idea to cripple mining cards' performance in gaming to sort of force miners to go for mining cards is good, but perhaps they can do this more subtly.
For example, they can make their gaming cards perform slightly less well in mining, and their mining cards slightly worse in gaming (than they should, given the hardware). This could be done on the driver level, so it will work across the board for all cards (even older gen).

However, I dont think that would be necessary at all, if their gpu's are designed for the intended usage.
For example,[strike] a mining card wouldnt need a high Vram capacity. Therefore, those cards would have low vram, in order to reduce the cost and to make them less suitable for gaming.[/strike] Edit: Actually, thats not true, in some cases even more than 4GB of vram might be needed.
Also, if the gpu itself is optimized for mining and not gaming, and this is done on the hardware level, having the capability to do more calculations per second than a gaming gpu, then there's no need for any driver restrictions on the gaming cards themselves.
The gaming gpu's can be more optimized to handle a large memory buffer, and this would necessitate a high bit memory bus, etc.

One other thing to consider, is that the miners look for cost/performance very much. Its the only thing that matters. So they just wont buy a gaming card in order to mine on it, since its not a good value for money.
Nvidia doesnt actually need to cripple the mining performance of gaming cards. They just need to make their mining cards more efficient, i.e. offer more performance in mining than the $ equivalent of a gaming card.
This, coupled with the fact that the mining cards wouldnt be such good performers in gaming, would mean that someone needs a Mining rig for mining, and a Gaming rig for gaming.

Some people might complain about this, yes, but I think in the long term this is good for everyone, including Nvidia themselves.
 
If they only take away some of their gaming GPU mining performance it will defeat the very purpose of making mining specific architecture and in the end we will still end up like what we have now.

Since the very beginning nvidia GPU are worse than AMD GPU at mining. When there is no more radeon left to buy miners end up buying nvidia gpu like crazy even if their efficiency in mining not as good. So imagine if Turing no longer available for purchase. Miner will still turn to ampere because even if they were not as efficient they can still mine with it.

Honestly with new algo keep coming out making "mining resistant" GPU might be a futile effort. Because new algo will be written with this new architecture in mind. If this is the case then nvidia probably need to impose even more restrictive measure to ensure new algo will not work on it. For example firmware updates on new algo so the new algo performance can be cripple on purpose. Sure people might thinking about using older firmware to make it work then make the gpu refuse to boot or work on any application that heavily use gpu if the firmware is not being updated within one month after new firmware being roll out to the public. Then put even more complex security design on the hardware level to make it harder for people to make work around to enable mining. This is how much hate i have towards mining right now i'm willing to have this kind of compromise on my GPU.
 

morpheas768

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Yeah, you're making a good point.
Since its incredibly difficult for Nvidia to predict what the market is going to be and how many gpus will be required, miners will inevitably turn to gaming gpus.

Perhaps if the new gaming gpus simply cannot mine, then the problem will be solved. And while that will make miners unhappy, I think that simply because there will be a demand for it, someone is bound to make more mining gpus to satisfy that demand.

Honestly, it seems like an extreme solution, and Nvidia wont do something like that.
However, I'd say that if the problem isnt eventually solved, then both Nvidia and AMD risk losing a ton of their market share to consoles and perhaps even Intel, since Intel is hard at work in creating their very own debut discrete graphics card.

Both AMD and Nvidia, need to consider their strategies going forward with this, because we've already seen gamers turn to consoles when graphics cards turn to be overpriced.
At the end of the day, a good gaming PC will always be more expensive than a console, but when its price is double or even triple that of a modern console, then gamers tend to be turned off and go for the console.
 

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