Upgrading my current setup by keeping as many components as possible

enrico.ribelli · Mar 10, 2018

Hello everyone!
I used to have my old good pc that in the old days was great! It's time unfortunately to make some change since I am not able anymore to keep up with new graphics and new technologies.
What I would like to do is keeping as much as I can of my current setup. You would ask: what do you want to achieve then? The answer is: I would like to have a nice machine that doesn't need to do magics but at least it must have a couple of features that are important for my hobbies.
Into the details... I am a gamer and I make computer animations myself. At the moment GPUs cost waaaaay too much due to cryptocurrencies mining. So I have to decide whether to buy a half way good GPU, waiting the the costs go lower or finding another solution, we'll arrive to this soon. Let me at first tell you my current configuration:

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 955 3.2Ghz 4x512KB Black Edition AM2+/AM3 Dened 125W BOX
GPU: ATI HD6870 Sapphire 1GB GDDR5 2xDVI/2xDP/HDMI
Power Supply: Corsair CMPSU-650TXEU 650W
Mother board: ASRock AM3 870 Extreme3 AM3 ATX
Storage: Western Digital 500GB WD5001AALS 7200rpm 32MB Caviar Black
RAM: DDR3 1333Mhz PC10666 4GB G.Skill Ripjaws 4GBRM CL8 (2x2GB)
Case: Thermaltake V4 Black Edition

About the budget, as I said I would like to keep as many pieces as possible. I don't have a fixed budget but to give you an idea, if I have to spend 200 euro it would be nice. If I have to spend 500 euro I would try to find a way to do it somehow. If I have to spend 800 euro then I cannot do it.

As said above, graphics is the most important part but at the moment it's a hard topic due to the prices. So the alternatives are either overclocking my current GPU, but it's so old that I don't think I will achieve anything out of it. An alternative is buying some mid range graphic card (have no clue which one.. need definitely your help here) that allows me to work with 3D graphics animation programs and play some modern videogames (Pubg would be an example). Third and last alternative would be borrowing a couple of GTX 570s from a friend and make them work in SLI while waiting that the prices to go a bit down.

So depending on these 3 situations I have no clue if the rest of my computer (motherboard, power supply and CPU) is enough and especially compatible.

Updating RAM to something more decent I think it's a must in any case

Would you kindly help me finding a setup for my next new computer? I thank in advance for your help!

n0ns3ns3 · Mar 10, 2018

you can keep the case, PSU and HDD. the rest is not really worth the space it occupies in universe.
With your budget, I'd go with something like ryzen 2400G + some 4th gen MB + 8GB RAM = about 350-400 euro.
This will be able to play most games on low to medium settings.
later (when prices return to sanity and you have additional budget)you can add a decent GPU and another stick of RAM.

maxalge · Mar 10, 2018

enrico.ribelli :

case, psu, hdd, and gpu you can keep until prices go down

sell the rest

so you want to keep under ~500 euro

PCPartPicker part list: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/7WJ8WX
Price breakdown by merchant: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/7WJ8WX/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8400 2.8GHz 6-Core Processor (€164.90 @ Caseking)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - Z370P D3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (€93.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws 4 series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2400 Memory (€67.59 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €326.48
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-03-11 00:39 CET+0100

something like this is what you want to get ideally

enrico.ribelli · Mar 11, 2018

First of all thanks a lot for the answer! I have a couple of newbie questions if possible..

1) is the PSU really enough? how can you determine so? this is mostly for me to learn how to take this kind of decisions. It's quite an old one but it was the top you could find when I bought it.

2) how do you decide which motherboard to pick besides the compatibility with the cpu? I don't think there are benchmarks online about those.. or am I wrong?

3) nothing at all to blame to the answer above of n0ns3ns3 which I actually thank! But.. by comparing his suggested ryzen 2400G and your Intel - Core i5-8400 2.8GHz there is just around 10 euro of difference but quite some difference in benchmarks (the i5 is winning). This is a question more for n0ns3ns3 maybe but why would I pick that processor over the one suggested by you? isn't the i5 clearly better?

4) wouldn't be better to get 1 ram of 8 GB instead of 2 pieces of 4GB in such a way that as soon as I am able to work with graphics (whenever the prices go down and I can buy a new graphic card) I can just add another stick of RAM of 8GB?

5th and last question) the total price of your configuration is €326.48 out of €500 or a bit more that I can afford.. which I don't mind of course. Which means you still had available more than 150€. Does this mean that the configuration you chose is already great and at the top in the comparison of quality/price or am I missing something?

As always, thanks a looot for your help!

maxalge · Mar 11, 2018

enrico.ribelli :

1 - yes, usually by using a system wattage estimator
there are many good ones online.

2 - based on price and features

4 - no, with a dual channel system you want dual paired sticks for best performance

5 - the setup is probably easily the best bang/buck you can currently get for gaming, it can handle ANY gpu you can possibly currently buy

the ryzen 2400G is more entry level 720p gaming, and will not keep up with higher end gpu's if you ever upgraded

enrico.ribelli · Mar 11, 2018

Very helpful thank you very much!

I have made some research about 3D designing and so on.. I wasn't aware that those software use mostly CPU for final result rendering. That's why I was having problem with my computer. I think I have to make a step up in quality in terms of CPU. What do you think about the i7 8700K? is there something better? by seeing benchmarks and price it seems the highest which still has some "decent" price and high quality.. am I wrong? do you have anything else to suggest?

madmatt30 · Mar 11, 2018

enrico.ribelli :

In the interest of giivng you a complete system upgrade for your 500 euro budget

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1400 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor (€109.90 @ Caseking)
Motherboard: MSI - B350 PC MATE ATX AM4 Motherboard (€82.51 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws 4 Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2666 Memory (€93.21 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB Video Card (€199.90 @ Caseking)
Total: €485.52
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-03-11 14:14 CET+0100

At that pricepoint the ryzen 1400 is very very hard to ignore.

You absolutely need a gpu upgrade if you want to game.

A 1gb 6870 is a dog of a card for current gaming,a lot of current games won't even install on a gpu with less than 2gb vram.

enrico.ribelli · Mar 11, 2018

Thanks for your answer too first of all,

as I was answering above to Maxalge I have changed a bit the conditions let's say. I have realized that in order to work properly with computer graphics software I need a very decent cpu. I would be willing to use my friend's GTX 570s in SLI for a while. I really think I can play a bit in low/medium quality some modern game. For my hobby of making animations, I work with some Autodesk software and the one they suggest around there (for commercial reasons or anything else) is the i7 8700K. Since it seems I really need some good cpu I decided to invest more money in that and wait for a gpu. By checking also benchmarks it seems that this i7 8700K is both really good with performance and not crazy high with price. But I am in your hands for different opinions!

n0ns3ns3 · Mar 11, 2018

there are quite a few games that will not run on 570. I had this card and moved to 1070 when I couldn't play the DOOM 2016 on lowest settings.
As for the CPU, for gaming 8700K is definitely the king. BUT - it is noticeable only if you have (or plan to have) high refresh rate monitor (120Hz or more) and a GPU that can do that many FPS.
Otherwise, the ryzen 1600 or 1700 CPUs will do the gaming job while providing either cost saving or/and more performance in heavily multi threaded tasks.
Important note - ryzen performance is very sensitive to memory speed as infinity fabric and cache and memory controller operates on RAM speed. so you should target 3200 RAM kit with CL12-14 (out of the box CL might be 15). Corsair vengeance are usually very easy to work with on ryzen.
For 6-8 core ryzen overclocking, you need a decent X370 MB (with good VRM) if you want it stable and to last more then few moths.

If you are not feeling like tinkering with overclocking (which is way more then just boosting CPU multiplier), you'd be better with intel as it is way more powerful out of the box and less complicated to overclock. Though even there, don't get cheap on MB ~160$ is the minimum for decent overclocking MB.

From my experience, for both intel and AMD, asus boards are more stable for a long run - better components where needed and excellent BIOS. The later is important for both out of the box and overclocking performance.
I wouldn't touch MSI or GB, if you want to save, go ASRock.

enrico.ribelli · Mar 12, 2018

This helps a lot.. thank you very much.

I am not very keen at overclocking, especially at the beginning. I would rather go for a nice intel cpu that lasts for a while and when it starts not being enough anymore, I would go for the clocking part.

Would you suggest me please a motherboard that is known to be a good one between 100 and 150 euro?
I saw this Asus - Prime Z370-P ATX LGA1151.or Asus - Z170 PRO GAMING ATX LGA1151
and for RAM I saw this Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 but would prefer something cheaper if suitable haha.

n0ns3ns3 · Mar 12, 2018

Asus Z370-A is the cheapest decent board from asus that is suitable for overclocking 8th gen intel CPUs.
vengeance LPX 3000 - 3200 MHz is a good kit that IMHO worth the premium.
link your favorite store, i'll look for alternatives.

enrico.ribelli · Mar 12, 2018

Okey.. did some measurements and the i7-8700 I think it's out of my reach for now.
One step below I find these 2 possible solutions: I5-2800k and AMD Ryzen 1600X. Very close to each other in performance. Slightly preference over the i5 if we manage to find some cheaper components. But let's give it a try to both:

Solution A)

CPU: I5-2800k (around 235 euro on amazon germany)
heatsync? Scythe Mugen 5? I don't want to spend more than 50 euro..
RAM: vengeance LPX 3000 - 3200 MHz (190 euro). I think this is the place where we can drop the costs. I want 16GB at least for sure but one step below in quality would be still definitely fine I guess.
MB: Asus Prime Z370-P (120 euro)
SSD: (yes I need one) Samsung MZ-75E250B/AM 250GB (90 euro)

total: 685 euro.. I think we can get reach the 600 euro. Can't make it without your suggestions and experience

Solution B)
CPU: AMD Ryzen 1600X
MB: Asus STRIX B350-F GAMING
Need your help for the rest...

Thanks as always for all the help!

n0ns3ns3 · Mar 12, 2018

I assume you are talking about i5-8600K
here is the thing, if you go with i7-8700, you can go with the cheapest motherboard that has all the features/connectors that you want/need and you can save on cooler.
here is an example of i7 build for less than 685.

CPU: Intel - Core i7-8700 3.2GHz 6-Core OEM/Tray Processor (€269.90 @ Caseking)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! - PURE ROCK 51.7 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (€32.89 @ Aquatuning)
Motherboard: ASRock - Z370 Pro4 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (€108.73 @ Mindfactory)
Memory: G.Skill - Aegis 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory (€167.37 @ Mindfactory)
Storage: Crucial - MX500 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (€72.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €651.79

you can save another 20-25 euro by going with the box version that includes the cooler. you can always upgrade the cooler later.
Is it close enough to 600 ?

for ryzen it will be a bit more complicated as you "have to" use more expensive RAM and decent MB. though you don't need the X version - pointless waste of money and you lose the box cooler.

here is an example:
CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor (€167.69 @ Alternate)
Motherboard: Asus - PRIME X370-PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard (€137.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory (€184.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Crucial - MX500 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (€72.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €563.48

if you willing to spend a bit more, upgrade to ryzen 1700 will cost you the same as the i7 version

enrico.ribelli · Mar 12, 2018

I was talking indeed about the i5-8600K, my apologies! Don't know why I came up with that weird number.. too many numbers for me tonight..

The i7 version appeals me actually. Why do you say that I can go with the cheapest motherboard that has all the features that I want/need? Just to understand and learn from this..

That AsRock looks nice. I never overclocked so far and I really would like not to do it as far as the cpu is not deprecated. Only when not enough anymore I would go for this solution. But just out of curiosity, would this MB be able to handle some overclocking?

Isn't the i5-8600K for certain points better than the i7-8700 (which is the non-K version) ?
At last, may I ask you a bit more from your curtesy (I am asking a lot, I know) and ask you for solution with the i5-8600K instead of the i7-8700 ? I may think the i5 would be enough for what I need.. still to decide

n0ns3ns3 · Mar 12, 2018

1. the i7-8700 is not overclockable, so there is no special requirement for the power delivery on the MB. the components of the power delivery can be quite expensive if they have to handle overclockable CPU without melting down. just to visualize it, the stock TDP of the 6 core CPU is under 100w. overclocked i5-8600K can easily do over 150w under load. that requires from the power delivery not only be capable of such current, but also to be efficient enough and cooled well enough to not overheat. those components can run really hot 100-125C. those temperatures affect surrounding components like capacitors. and inappropriate VRM can shorten the lifespan of the MB. or just the system will not be stable enough. there is also a thing of quality in terms of power delivery. the more stable the voltage, the higher your overclock goes.

2. i5-8600K would be better in only one case - when it's overclocked to the max and there is only 6 threaded task. though it will be very insignificant as the boost clock of i7-8700 is 4.6GHz. but, i7 have more cache and more threads. so it can handle more complicated tasks more quickly.
take for example last gen quad core i5 - they are practically obsolete for high end gaming. freezes, stuttering, low FPS is many games. but the 7 years old i7-2600K have almost no problem there. So today, or tomorrow, the i5 would be fine. it is just i7 would not be needed to replace for much longer time.
Games become more and more multi threaded and even 8 becoming not enough.
BTW, one of the benefits for the i7-8700 on good Z370 mother board with good cooler (mugen will do) is that you can use multi core enhancement which changes the boost tables and instead of one core 4.6GHz boost, it boosts all cores to those 4.6GHz. you also get to play with memory. but it will take few years before you NEED to this to play games.

If you really want to save, go with the ryzen 1600. unless you have a 144Hz monitor and a GPU capable of drawing that many FPS, you are not going to feel the difference without FPS counter. But then again, this platform requires tinkering (overclocking) from the very beginning to get the most of it.

So basically you decide between spending now a bit more (under 50 euro more) and double the platform relevant life span.
Or just get now the best you have the budget for now and spend again about the same amount of money on new system much sooner.

madmatt30 · Mar 13, 2018

With a €500 I wpuld stop obsessimg with both the i7's & the k series i5.

You are coming from a phenom with 4gb ram here.

The i5 8400 & the ryzen 1600 are where the value options lie & these are both immeasurably bettet than your current system.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8400 2.8GHz 6-Core Processor (€164.90 @ Caseking)
Motherboard: ASRock - Z370 Pro4 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (€108.73 @ Mindfactory)
Memory: G.Skill - NT Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory (€155.94 @ Mindfactory)
Storage: Crucial - MX500 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (€72.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €502.47
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-03-13 06:55 CET+0100

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor (€167.69 @ Alternate)
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350 Pro4 ATX AM4 Motherboard (€86.59 @ Alza)
Memory: G.Skill - Flare X 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory (€168.84 @ Mindfactory)
Storage: Crucial - MX500 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (€72.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €496.02
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-03-13 06:59 CET+0100

enrico.ribelli · Mar 13, 2018

For madmatt30, it is mostly to make me understand how things work. In case there is a very good reason I can spend 100 euro more for it.

n0ns3ns3 you just convinced me for the i7 over the i5

I see that on amazon.de the difference between i7-8700 and i7-8700k is less than 20 euro.. wouldn't it better for me to buy directly the i7-8700k ? If I understood correctly I won't be able to overclock it with the ASRock - Z370 Pro4 that I am planning to buy. But if one day I will overclock it, I would just need to upgrade my MB. If for 20 euro I can make a nice difference in performance until that moment, then I would buy the i7-8700k!

The G.Skill - Aegis 16GB DDR4 3000 are same price of G.Skill - NT Series 16GB DDR4-2400. You would still suggest me to go for the G.Skill - Aegis, right?

maxalge · Mar 13, 2018

enrico.ribelli :

For madmatt30, it is mostly to make me understand how things work. In case there is a very good reason I can spend 100 euro more for it.

n0ns3ns3 you just convinced me for the i7 over the i5

I see that on amazon.de the difference between i7-8700 and i7-8700k is less than 20 euro.. wouldn't it better for me to buy directly the i7-8700k ? If I understood correctly I won't be able to overclock it with the ASRock - Z370 Pro4 that I am planning to buy. But if one day I will overclock it, I would just need to upgrade my MB. If for 20 euro I can make a nice difference in performance until that moment, then I would buy the i7-8700k!

The G.Skill - Aegis 16GB DDR4 3000 are same price of G.Skill - NT Series 16GB DDR4-2400. You would still suggest me to go for the G.Skill - Aegis, right?

z370 = yes you can overclock

so yeah grab the i7 8700k

madmatt30 · Mar 13, 2018

You are going to need a good cooler with the 8700k , the k series don't have coolers included.

That makes that €20 difference more like €60-70 in reality.

Look at something like the cryorig h5 minimum if you want to run at decent temps.
https://de.pcpartpicker.com/product/jK8H99/cryorig-cpu-cooler-h5universal

& yes absolutely go with the aegis 3000mhz at the same price.

n0ns3ns3 · Mar 13, 2018

for once I agree with madmatt30.
The i7-8700K will require a good 45+ euro cooler from day 1. or at least 35 just to operate.
even if you overclock the 8700K you will get ~ 4.7-4.8GHz without deliding the CPU - physically modifying it. after delid it can do 4.8-5.1Ghz with expensive cooler and MB in 180+ euro range.
the 8700 can do 4.6GHz on all cores. so are those 100-200Mhz worth the 70-100 euro difference ? or the 400MHz (read under 10% real performance) worth the 150-200 euro ?
You can overclock with this ASRock board. it's quite decent overall and excellent for the price.
Faster RAM is good - really good. it helps to feed those 12 threads with data. When you are ready, you can overclock the memory to 3200-3600 quite easily.

Don't get me wrong, I'd buy the 8700K, but only since i'm not really restricted with budget. The best rule for computer parts is get the best parts that do the job for enough time and that you can COMFORTABLY afford.

n0ns3ns3 · Mar 13, 2018

oooh ....
and i forgot to say it again.
for gaming, the i7 worth it ONLY if you plan to get a high refresh rate monitor and a GPU that can push it - read starting at another 900-1000 euro.
so for 60Hz/FPS gamin ryzen 1600 will do the same job (perceiveably) for less money for the system overall.

madmatt30 · Mar 13, 2018

^ I don't think we ever disagree that much really.
Im all about balance & value for money personally.

What started out at a €500 budget here is fast approaching €700 now in reality.
As good as the 8600k & 8700k are in comparison to the 8400 & 8700 non-k they look comparatively bad value.
That said , yeah if I was going i7 ,then at only €20 difference I would take the 8700k myself aswell.
I have half a dozen coolers sat here though that would all handle that cpu.

Here's the issue for me

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i7-8700K 3.7GHz 6-Core Processor (€312.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG - H5 Universal 65.0 CFM CPU Cooler (€40.98 @ Alternate)
Motherboard: ASRock - Z370 Pro4 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (€108.73 @ Mindfactory)
Memory: G.Skill - NT Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory (€157.91 @ Mindfactory)
Storage: Crucial - MX500 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (€72.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €693.51
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-03-13 16:06 CET+0100

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor (€164.90 @ Caseking)
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350 Pro4 ATX AM4 Motherboard (€86.59 @ Alza)
Memory: G.Skill - Flare X 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory (€167.21 @ Mindfactory)
Storage: Crucial - MX500 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (€72.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB Video Card (€199.90 @ Caseking)
Total: €691.50
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-03-13 16:12 CET+0100

If I had the budget for that 8700k combo list & I was running a gpu that old & weak Id personally take the i5 8400 or the ryzen 1600 & a 1050ti.

n0ns3ns3 · Mar 13, 2018

^^ i'd say that even though the H5 is a very nice cooler, it will not do wonders for overclocking 8700K.
the current K parts are really bad value. and the i5 or ryzen qad cores and other pentium/celeron wannabe CPUs are just office crap.
IMHO, for gaming with somewhat limited budget the real choice is ryzen 5 1600 or i7-8700.

enrico.ribelli · Mar 13, 2018

You guys are helping me BIG time. So..

I am not planning to have a high refresh rate monitor.. All you guys are saying makes perfectly sense.
There is just one part: I need this computer to work on it besides gaming.
3D software uses a lot the cpu on final renderings. I experienced in the past waiting 5 minutes to make a simple rendering of one frame.. imagine how slow the workflow can be in those conditions. That is why I am trying to get the best cpu by somehow limiting the costs where possible.
I really think I will go for the i7-8700. What n0ns3ns3 said was kind of a big thing.. if the 8700 can do 4.6GHz on all cores, I am not sure those 100-200Mhz difference are worth the 70-100 euro difference. Also in case of the 400MHz difference when overcloaking the i7-8700k as you said means under 10% real performance difference.. not sure it's worth 150-200 euro.

Question: this boosting you talked about for the i7-8700 is it some kind of overclocking that degenerates the cpu faster or it is some (kind of) common practice? In case I do it, is the "be quiet! - PURE ROCK 51.7" cooler still enough?

As soon as the prices drop down even the newest nvidia or whatsoever will be compatible with this solution, correct?

n0ns3ns3 · Mar 13, 2018

MCE is kinda of overclock and it will probably require a better cooler.
I'm not exactly sure what settings ASRock bios allows to control besides on or off.
To get this boost on all cores it bumps up the voltage. and it usually does it a bit more then required. If the bios allows to control the core voltage and you are lucky with the chip, the pure rock might be enough.
but the i7-8700 comes with a cooler. so you don't need to buy one right now. see the performance, noise and temps. you probably would be happy enough for some time and you can put the money towards the GPU upgrade.
At some point in the future, you can get a decent cooler that can handle the CPU with MCE enabled.

IMPORTANT NOTE
though after thinking about it for a moment, I might be misleading you. I'm not 100% sure that the MCE will work on non K CPU.
But even then it does 4.3GHz all cores (non AVX load) which is still within 10% from 4.8GHz.

about dmg, if done right there is nothing to worry about.
Unless you just pushing high clocks and voltages on inappropriate HW with inadequate cooling.

Upgrading my current setup by keeping as many components as possible

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