What power supply?

1dog · Mar 17, 2018

Hi.

I have -
Motherboard: Rampage II Extreme
CPU: i7 920 2.67GHz
GPU: 750Ti 2GB
RAM: 6GB (3 x 2GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3-1333)
HDD: Four (75GB, 150GB, 4TB, 5TB)
OS: Win 7 Ultimate 64
Other: TL-WN881ND TP-Link wireless network card
PSU: Antec 900W

My PSU may be bad and I need a recommendation. I've never overclocked. The highest-end games I play are all from the beginning of this decade and I don't game as much lately, so I'm guessing I don't need to go 900W?

Thanks.

junii · Mar 17, 2018

You have a psu from a bad brand, get this. cx550m antec is horrible with psus, and so is kentek these are off brand bad quality psus, they do come in cheap prices. Corsair, coolermaster, thermaltake, EVGA are all good brands. I currently have a Cx550m, its modular and has enough power.

WildCard999 · Mar 17, 2018

What is the exact model of that Antec? Like other manufacturers there are good quality models and bad quality units however even a older one may still be decent. A friend of mine has a Antec 1200W TruePower that's still going strong from like 10 years ago but due to power concerns were in the process of replacing it, I do agree with the CXM recommendation.

junii · Mar 17, 2018

Zalman is one of those brands that seem bad quality but they are pretty good, they just lost popularity over the time. They dont have ratings but I can assure you they are good.

turkey3_scratch · Mar 17, 2018

junii :

If you are going to make this statement then I am going to assume that, linguistically, what you are trying to convey here is that all Antec PSUs are bad. If that is the case, look at this list here http://www.orionpsudb.com/antec

Those are just some of the Antec power supplies. Could you please explain to me what they did wrong with the Edge, or the Delta-made Earthwatts units, or the VPF and HCGs? All these PSUs are known to range from good value units to high-end. Do you kind of see what I'm saying here on how your statement may be misled?

Hey it's alright.

junii :

All those units have a lot of units that experts consider terrible and they also have a lot of units that experts consider great. How, then, can we classify them as good brands but Antec as a bad brand when Antec also has units experts consider both poor and great?

1dog · Mar 18, 2018

Thanks, all. Appreciate the suggestions.

Actually, some background. I'm not completely certain the PSU is bad. Still testing it by swapping with my wife's PC and I jumped the gun by deciding to look for a substitute ahead of time. Been getting random reboots and did a bit of elimination to figure out what is wrong: http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3665253/voltages-problem.html

If I do need a PSU, 550W should be enough? Just wanted to be sure.

PS - @Wildcard: It is this one https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371050

Karadjgne · Mar 18, 2018

If that psu is an Antec HCG-900, that was a really good psu (9.5 on JG) back in 2010. Probably still rank pretty decent nowadays, just on build quality alone, but it is group regulated.

12v rail of over 14v is not good, it should be 11.8v-12.2v. 3.3v rail of 2.8v isn't good either, should be 3.2v-3.4v. If those voltages are accurate (I say this because every software I have reads my 12v at 8.2v or 10.2v, which is impossible and my fluke meter reads 12.18v) then it'd be a good guess that you are suffering psu failure. With that psu @ possibly 8 years old, it's well past the warranty period and well into retirement age.

Cpu 100w
Mobo 100w
Gpu 75w
4x hdds 50w
Pc 50w.

Honestly, because of no OC you could realistically run that pc on a 400w psu all day long and never break a sweat. Because it's 1st gen Sandy-Bridge you are also open to group regulated designs like the Seasonic S12-II series since you have no need of Haswell compliance. So anything decent from 450w - 550w will undoubtedly last you longer than the pc at this point. Corsair CXM/RMx/TX , Antec HCG, Seasonic M12-II, Evga G2/G3/GS all good candidates.

WildCard999 · Mar 18, 2018

1dog :

It's decent but it wouldn't hurt to downgrade to a good 550W unit.

1dog · Mar 18, 2018

@Wildcard - Thanks.
@Karadjgne - Thanks. On my wife's PC, with the Antec 900W, HWMonitor is showing 12.1V for the 14V and 3.08V for the 3.3V. Is there a harm to the motherboard in just letting the Antec run or should I be pulling it out and measuring it with a multimeter? I have a multimeter and found this (https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-manually-test-a-power-supply-with-a-multimeter-2626158) but I'd like to avoid the physical check if possible.

Karadjgne · Mar 18, 2018

You don't pull it out. Leave it fully installed. Many mobo's have voltage points for just that reason, checking voltages with a multimeter, but if not you can check voltages at the mains (20+4pin) connection, they are color coded. These are the same for all ATX power supplies: 3.3V wires are orange; +5V wires are red; -5V wires (if they are present) are white; +12V wires are yellow; -12V wires are blue; ground wires are black. The green wire is the "power on" sensor.

So check black to color, all should be really close or right at rated voltage. It's far more accurate than software.

1dog · Mar 18, 2018

Thanks. How about this https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899705003&cm_re=power_supply_tester-_-99-705-003-_-Product ? If you think its worth it, I'll get it - should be easier, and it is pretty cheap. Thoughts?

PS - Do I need to disconnect power to all components when measuring?

Karadjgne · Mar 18, 2018

I'd not even bother with that. It's basically a load tester of you want to test multiple units. Good for shops, but for the single use you'd get from it, a waste of $25.

You don't disconnect power to anything. Just jab one lead right onto the pinset of a black wire on the 20+4 connector, and the other lead into the colored wire pinset. Do it while the pc is on. Since it's DC voltage, it'll have a polarity, no worries, if you get a reading of -12v ignore the - ,just means the polarity on the test leads is backwards. Swap them.

1dog · Mar 18, 2018

Sorry, I'm a bit slow here. To confirm, I power the PC down, disconnect only the 20+4 connector that plugs into the motherboard, then power the PC back on and check using the 20+4 connector. Correct?

Karadjgne · Mar 18, 2018

No. Turn on pc. Open the side panel. The 20+4 pin connection is the big one with a bunch of colored wires sticking out of it on the right side of the mobo. Turn on multimeter, set to DC voltage, take the black lead and shove it down a black wire into the connector. Take the red lead and shove it down a colored wire into the connector. Voltage will read (should read) close to what the wire color indicates as in my post above.

You'll need to test the psu power when it has a load, not when it's open. You do not disconnect anything. The wires on the main 20 pin (or 24 pin) connectors are color coded. These are the same for all ATX power supplies: 3.3V wires are orange; +5V wires are red; -5V wires (if they are present) are white; +12V wires are yellow; -12V wires are blue; ground wires are black. The green wire is the "power on" sensor.

So if you test black-yellow and get 11.8v-12.2v you are good.
If you test black-orange and get 3.2v-3.4v you are good.
If you test black-red and get 5.3v-5.6v you are good.
If you test black-yellow and get 14v you are not good, black-orange and get 2.8v you are not good, black-red and get 4v not good.

Best time to test is if the pc is under heavy loads, like a stress test on cpu, then repeat for stress test on the gpu. If all your readings come back as almost or right on what they should be, there's nothing wrong with the psu. If you get 11.4v under gpu stress test, time to start thinking of replacing the psu.

It's exactly like doing a heart monitor test on someone, you don't bother doing it when they are relaxed and sitting still, you test them while they are running on a treadmill

1dog · Mar 18, 2018

Thanks for your patience. Ok, I got the part on measuring while everything is on, and try to be running a game or some other heavy load. Also got the part on which wires to measure. Only doubt left is on getting leads in.

http://oi63.tinypic.com/21d09w4.jpg

Shove the multimeter leads down the back of the plug as much as they can fit to get into the narrow gaps? A bit tricky, doesn't seem like much space.

Karadjgne · Mar 18, 2018

If you look at that pic closely, (zoom in on the connector) you'll see at the end of the wire is a metal piece. That's actually what makes contact to the mobo. All you need to do is touch that metal with the point of the test lead. Doesn't need to be shoved all the way in, just enough to make contact.

As long as you are using standard pointed test leads there isn't an issue. The jumbo pointed ones won't fit.

Should look something like these

1dog · Mar 18, 2018

Ran into a snag. My meter is https://www.amazon.com/GT-Power-Analyzer-Consumption-Performance/dp/B00C1BZSYO - contrary to advertising it doesn't measure below ~5V - the display just flickers.
I'll stop by Walmart tomorrow and try to pick up a meter that does measure in the 3V range as well. Thanks again for walking me through what to do.

Karadjgne · Mar 19, 2018

Hmm yeah, don't think that'd work lol.

1dog · Mar 19, 2018

Ran OCCT PSU test while measuring voltages. I'm hoping that is enough stress for the system.
Seems like HW Monitor does a decent measurement. Multimeter (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hyper-Tough-Digital-Multimeter-17-Range-34371/124112660) showed same values.
Black -> Yellow 12.14V
Black -> Orange 3.08V
Black -> Red 5.09V
These were extras but I figured I'd do them anyway:
Black -> White 12.14V
Black -> Blue 5.1V

So, does the 3.08V mean the PS is bad? If so, which one of the ones you recommended (Corsair CXM/RMx/TX , Antec HCG, Seasonic M12-II, Evga G2/G3/GS) would you pick?

PS - Should black->red be centered around 5V or around 5.3v-5.6v as you wrote?

Karadjgne · Mar 20, 2018

The 3.3v rail is an oddity. It used to be quite widely used, but not since the 12v rail gained popularity. Mostly it runs (arguably) the ram slots, Southbridge, some micro controllers and still has a presence in the cpu. At 3.08v its out of spec. It's supposed to be ±5% or about 3.14-3.46v and being such a small voltage, there's really not much room for maneuver. It does, however, carry a huge amount of power, most psus are still 25+ amps or so on that rail. At a lowered voltage, to get the necessary wattage, amperage goes up. Could be there's microcontrollers that simply don't want to work if that 3.08v is more the high, and could dip lower at some points.

Honestly, it's a good psu, that had a good run, but it's time to retire it. Which is a shame since the rest are perfect.

Centered on 5v, my bad. All the rails should be ±5% except the -12v which can be ±10%. In a 'good' psu these are generally closer to ±3% instead.

For replacement I'd be looking at 550w units but a good 450w wouldn't hurt. 500w units tend to not be as well made, and the 520w units are getting long in the tooth as well, but newer versions are still very good.

1dog · Mar 20, 2018

Thanks for teaching me all this - written all of it down for future reference.

The Antec is now sitting in my wife's PC so she'll be getting the new PSU -
CPU: Intel Core i3-4330 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor
Motherboard: Asus H97M-E Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory
GPU: NVIDIA 750Ti (this one doesn't have a PSU plug-in while the 750Ti in my machine does)
HDD: Two, one is 4TB, one is 6TB.
Uses: Not gaming, sadly. VLC is the most demanding use on this one. But some day I hope to game on it too.

I used https://pcpartpicker.com/products/power-supply/#R=5,4&sort=watts&W=450,560 as the main list to determine what to buy. Based on total number of votes (may not be the best way to pick a PSU, sorry), I'm guessing:
1. https://pcpartpicker.com/product/PHCwrH/corsair-power-supply-cx500m
2. https://pcpartpicker.com/product/FQ648d/corsair-power-supply-cp9020101na
are the candidates.

Which would you suggest among those two, or would you go with some other one listed on there?

Karadjgne · Mar 20, 2018

2nd one by a long shot. The 500w is a builder model from 2013? It's got many votes simply due to its age. The 450w is the newer DC-DC model, more efficient, better outputs, higher quality build.
Wife's pc will be lucky to see 200-225w, so 450w is perfect for that usage. The i3 and 750ti will do most simple games, steam games, Sims, candy crush etc without many issues at all.

1dog · Mar 20, 2018

Awesome. Thanks so much. I'll get the CXM 450W.

Karadjgne · Mar 20, 2018

Good choice. Sorry you gotta spend cash for a fix, but it's relatively cheap insurance. While I don't believe that the 3.3v rail would cause any hardware damage, the Antec has a bunch of good quality protections, it could cause data damage, either corrupting files or even the OS, which on a wife's pc, can cause all sorts of undue stress.

Good luck with this.

1dog · Mar 21, 2018

Thanks. Very grateful to have your expertise and help on this forum. No worries on the spending - as you wrote, it is cheap, and I don't mind spending on an identified problem.

Speaking of data damage, I suspected that may have happened when the Antec was in my machine. It started with the PC refusing to boot, one day, not even Safe mode. I dual-booted to XP, ran chkdsk on the Win7 OS disk from there. Then it booted from Win 7, although HDSentinel showed all disks as healthy (90% and higher). Even after sfc /scannow, there are some files not fixed. For example, a cold boot doesn't recognize the PCIe wireless card (I suspect some conflict with an older USB wifi driver but I cleaned using USBDeview). All that is a minor problem and I'm lucky this main worry is taken care of with the PSU on the way (hopefully arrives by Saturday). Keeping my fingers crossed that the Antec doesn't get unstable for the wife before then - a balancing act between my own laziness to swap back her PSU or risk her yelling at me if something goes wrong.

What power supply?

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