raid hard drive issue

rgs80074

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Oct 28, 2010
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hello everyone,

I've seen a couple of threads on this but i have just one question or two questions. right now i have 2 4tb drives on a computer in a raid 1 configuration and will be moving them to another pc but hope i don't have to copy everything back over.

1. shouldn't all the information be there since its on two drives, if the new pc recognizes them as seperate hard drives and not a raid shouldn't i just see two copies of the same thing one on each hard drive?

2. somewhere i raid the raid 1 is not a true backup, isn't the purpose of a raid 1 be if something happens the data is still there and accessible. and when the failed drive is replaced it can be rebuilt (ie copied form the good drive to the new one)

I don't need to be told to backup with this kinda of data and such and moving it and worried i might lose it its backed up.
 
Solution
I agree. Odd. With the "built-in" RAID systems I've seen, once you enable RAID and create a RAID array of any sort, any storage unit that is NOT specifically assigned to a RAID array is, by default, NOT a RAID device and is handled by the entire system as a "normal" stand-alone storage device. I cannot speak to how the Widows RAID systems handle this - never have used them. But I'm surprised the new mobo's RAID system did not handle this cleanly.

By the way, FYI on terminology. "Built-in" RAID systems that are part of the mobo BIOS are still software RAID. The BIOS includes all the software required to run a RAID system using mobo hardware (the normal SATA port HDD controller chips). But ALL of the logical processing work is still done...

popatim

Titan
Moderator
1: Yes, if its truly a raid1 then both drives contain exactly the same inforamtion.
2: No form of raid is a backup. Raid's main purpose (aside from raid0) is UPTIME. When a drive fails, the system stays up.

- A true backup is a copy that is not connected to the pc nor power. It will survive a virus attack, power issues, user error like deleting files or formatting the wrong disk, windows updates killing your system... its is highly advisable to have more then one backup of your important files and keep one of them off-site. You never know when your house will catch on fire (trust me).

An issue you may have is incompatibility between raid controllers. AMD,Intel, Asmedia, Marvel... are generally not compatible with each other. sometimes you can't even go to a newer model in the same brand and have compatibility. Do not forget to turn on raid mode in the bios if you use motherbd raid.

Windows raid is different, it should detect it and be compatible without issue. Motherbd should be in normal AHCI or Sata mode (AHCI preferred)
 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
1. This depends on the RAID controller. If you're using the motherboard RAID, the new motherboard may talk differently to it.
Yes, each drive would (hopefully) have a full set of the data. But it may not actually work as a RAID 1 until it is rebuilt with the new controller.

2. It is not a backup.
The OS and the user sees one volume and file. There is no 'second copy'.
It only helps in the rare case of a physical drive fail, and you really need the system to continue running 24/7.
Any other form of data loss....its gone.
Accidental deletion, corruption, virus, ransomware...RAID 1 does nothing for that.
Delete, and its gone.
 

rgs80074

Distinguished
Oct 28, 2010
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right so

best case the new motherboard see's the raid and no action is taken

might have to rebuild, but if both drives are connected and contain the same data that would be pretty quick?

worst case and no data shows on the drive for whatever reason i have to go to my backups and restore them.

funny thing is i am turning a pc into a server and building a new one (have all the parts now except for video card which i'll wait for prices to come down) that server is going to be a media center running plex and will be doing a huge undertaking (copying 7000+ burned discs to hard drive, sounds like fun) and i'll be making backups of the data and when the drives are full they (the second backup drive) gets pulled and stored away, maybe not offsite but no connected to anything.

ryan
 

popatim

Titan
Moderator
Which controller is this raid from?
- A dedicated controller should be no issues moving to a new motherbd as long as the OS has drivers for it.
- Motherbd raid usually works as long as the new motherbd uses the same manufacturer controller for the sata ports (Intel, AMD, Marvell...)
- Windows raid (storage spaces) usually works with Windows

Let us know more details of the current setup and the future server and we could provide further assistance but it sounds like you've got the jist of it.

Lastly - some backup is way better then none. Music & Movies aren't critical to me so I only back mine up once. I can always get them again. LoL
My family pics & videos - are a whole 'nother ballgame.
 

Paperdoc

Polypheme
Ambassador
This may be the simplest way to make the change without having to go through a proper backup. And yes, RAID1 is NOT a backup system.

IMPORTANT QUERY: I am assuming that the system you want to move is NOT your boot device. That is, this RAID set is for data only, and the new system will have another boot device to start up from. If that is NOT true - if this system would have to serve as the boot device in the new system - TELL US! That would make a BIG difference in what can be done.

READ the user manual for the RAID system you are using now. If you are using the RAID facilities built into your mobo, that may be a separate document on RAID management included on the CD that came with your mobo, OR available for free download from the website of your mobo maker. Either way, ensure that it is the manual for YOUR mobo, because others may be different.

What you're looking for is this. Most RAID1 management systems have several tools for handling problems. Among them is a tool to BREAK the RAID1 array. This will basically re-write some important management data at the beginning of each of the two HDD units, making both of them separate and independent HDD's. Each will have ALL of their data, and each will be accessible normally as a HDD, so now you have TWO identical copies of your data that really CAN be accessed without any RAID system. If you can do that and verify that the two drives operate normally, you're in a safe position. (One way to verify after you've done this is to remove one of the drives and verify that you can run your system with only one of those drives installed.)

NOW you can afford to migrate the drives into the new system, Since they are NOT RAID volumes, whatever new system you put them into will be able to read them. BUT install only one of those drives. Then READ the RAID manual for the NEW system and look for the tools to ADD a SECOND drive to an existing drive full of data and create a RAID1 array from those two. After that is working, make sure you know how to identify the first HDD that is already installed. THEN shut down and install the second HDD unit. Use the RAID management system to add that second drive and make the pair into a RAID1 system. Normally this will actually destroy all the data on the newly-added second drive and copy all the stuff from the first drive over to it, to ensure that the two units have identical data. Once that is done, you MAY have to ensure that the driver for a RAID system is installed in the Windows OS of the new system, in order to access that array.

This process avoids having to find a way to make the new RAID management system understand the way data was stored by the old system. It does that by transplanting only a "standard" HDD full of data, and then having the NEW RAID system establish the new RAID1 array.
 

rgs80074

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Oct 28, 2010
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man i didn't see all that info, might have saved me some work to a point.
the old raid was not compatible with the new system, old was marvel and the new was intel
so i lost what was on the drives (didn't see the breaking option listed above, damn my not reading fully), already restored them with the backups elsewhere so not a major deal.
but i had to skip the hardware raid and go with the windows drive mirroring due to some odd issue with raid being turned on the motherboard and my pny ssd would not boot, it would be seen in the bios but not selectable as something to boot from. odd i say.
 

Paperdoc

Polypheme
Ambassador
I agree. Odd. With the "built-in" RAID systems I've seen, once you enable RAID and create a RAID array of any sort, any storage unit that is NOT specifically assigned to a RAID array is, by default, NOT a RAID device and is handled by the entire system as a "normal" stand-alone storage device. I cannot speak to how the Widows RAID systems handle this - never have used them. But I'm surprised the new mobo's RAID system did not handle this cleanly.

By the way, FYI on terminology. "Built-in" RAID systems that are part of the mobo BIOS are still software RAID. The BIOS includes all the software required to run a RAID system using mobo hardware (the normal SATA port HDD controller chips). But ALL of the logical processing work is still done by the mobo resources - CPU, RAM, etc. I believe they normally load the RAID software stuff from BIOS into a chunk of regular RAM set aside for this purpose at boot time (so access to it is fast) and execute from there. Hardware RAID is different. It requires added hardware - a processor, RAM, HDD controller chips, and a BIOS chip containing the RAID software - on a separate card added to your system, usually in a PCIe slot. All of the work is done on that hardware, leaving the mobo's hardware almost un-involved and freeing it to work on other stuff. There is also a version of a RAID controller card that is much less expensive because it does not contain all that hardware. It has a BIOS for software and some HDD controller chips, but it still uses the mobo CPU and RAM to do all the work, so this is also a form of software RAID, even though it is contained on an added card.

Glad you got your system transferred. You had done the right thing, having complete proper backup copies to restore from before starting.
 
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