When will Intel and AMD release 7900X/Threadripper level CPUs with meltdown and spectre fixed at hardware level?

modeonoff · Apr 21, 2018

Hello, while I was going to order components to build a high-end workstation using the 7900X, I received a message from a colleague. He mentioned that I do have to worry about such meltdown and spectre vulnerabilities. The slowdown could be negligible or as much as 20%. We use Ubuntu Linux, not Windows. What suggestions do you have? Stop the plan to spend a lot of money to build a supposed to be high performance system and wait until Intel/AMD have fixed the bugs at hardware level, build a lower cost temporarily system using the 8700K or just go ahead to order components for the 7900X system?

Anybody has more accurate info on when Intel and AMD will roll out 7900X/Threadripper level CPUs with over 44+ lanes? I read that Intel may release something later this year but no info on the number of PCIe lanes.

jojesa · Apr 22, 2018

If you are so concerned about spectre, then wait until the second half of 2018. There should be a hardware level fix when Intel releases Cascade Lake processors.
AMD will have a hardware fixed when they release Zen 2 core by 2019.

modeonoff · Apr 22, 2018

Thanks. By second half, which months will that be as May is approaching? My current computer is 10 years old. Cannot get a project done. I will have to either postpone the project until Cascade Lake is available or just get an inexpensive CPU and motherboard for temporary use. When Cascade Lake comes out, just replace the two components. Will that work?

Is Cascade Lake a type of Xeon processors or it includes also desktop professors at price around 1K? Know anything about the number of lanes and cores? Can it also use current DDR4-3200/3600RAM?

What about the Meltdown issue? Will it take more time to get it fixed at hardware level?

jojesa · Apr 22, 2018

modeonoff :

According to Intel roadmap it should be available around August-September.
You could lease a computer for several months and purchase one later on.

There are always bugs around and that does not stop anyone from buying hardware and software.
You could buy a brand new hardware, and could be subject to an even bigger vulnerability.
Cascade Lake is just a refresh. It will include Xeon processors and also desktop professors and it will use DDR4.

modeonoff · Apr 22, 2018

Thanks. I plan to use nvme m.2 and read that SSD suffers big performance hit. You are right. New hardware could have new bug but at least I should not throw that much money on a system knowing that it has bugs that will affect the performance of what I plan to use the system for. I recall that there was also an infamous Pentium bug about 25 years ago.

If I use i7-8700K or i5 8400 with the aim of upgrading to Cascade Lake in a few months, is it better to get DDR4-3600 rather than DDR4-3200? I could imagine that up-coming CPUs should use Quad-Channel RAM. If I buy 64GB Quad-Channel now, can I use them in dual-channel's system with 4 memory slots and cpu either 8700K or 8400?

jojesa · Apr 22, 2018

I have not seen that performance hit on any of my system.
Also, there is a new Z390 chipset coming, which will also have new features like support for Intel's 3D XPoint RAM technology, 6 channels DDR4 support

I think you should select the motherboard, then get RAM supported. I don't think you will see a difference in performance between 3200MHz with lower timings and the 3600MHz with higher frequency.

modeonoff · Apr 23, 2018

Thanks. If I buy 64GB quad channel KIT for 8700K now and later new Z390 supports 6 channels DDR4, then I will waste the 64GB quad channel KIT as I will need two more RAM modules to make it 6 channcels. Buying two more RAM modules later result in different bins which may cause problems. Hard to decide what to do.

Know how many lanes will Z390 and Cascade Lake provide? Cannot find such info.

jojesa · Apr 23, 2018

Quad-channel will work just as before, there will be support for 6-channel
I suggest you wait until Intel releases the platform, since they could have a roadmap but could change as they have done previously.
There will be 16 and 24 lanes and 48 lanes will be available for servers and workstations (Xeon platform) as is now with the LGA 3647.

modeonoff · Apr 24, 2018

I am torn between 8700K and 8400.

jojesa · Apr 24, 2018

modeonoff :

Unless you are planing overclocking don't spend extra on the K models.
If that will be a transitional system then go with the 8400.

When I build workstations, I go with Xeon CPUs, more cores, multiple sockets, larger cache, more RAM support , etc.

modeonoff · Apr 25, 2018

Thanks. If I put DDR4-3200 RAM into the ASUS ROG STRIX Z370-E motherboard with either CPU, that would require me to overclock in order for the RAM to run at 3200 as the Z370 based CPU-motherboard's native speed is 2666. Otherwise, the RAM would run at 2666 and I waste money on 3200 modules. Am I correct? How does this work?

When 6-channel systems are released, how do I re-use the quad-channel RAM? 6-channel means 6 memory sticks. If I buy two extra sticks, I may run into issues due to them coming from "different bins". How does this work? I guess I could get by with 32GB in the transitional system but for up-coming high end system, I would prefer 64GB. Should I get 32GB or 64GB now?

jojesa · Apr 25, 2018

Pairing a Z370 motherboard with a locked CPU doesn't make a lot of sense.
With the i5-8400, there won't be any difference in time to complete a task (maybe 0.5 seconds), between 2666MHz and 3200MHz memory.

The ASUS ROG STRIX Z370-E motherboard only supports 'Dual Channel' so you might need to get a new memory kit when you decide to get the new build.

By the way, even though in synthetic tests and on paper 'Quad-channel' is almost twice as fast than 'Dual-channel' in real world applications (photo editing, video encoding, light gaming, word processing and browsing) there is no difference in performance. The only app I saw a tiny bit of advantage was 7zip.

I hope the 6-channel won't end up in the same path.

modeonoff · Apr 25, 2018

I have not decided between the 8700K and the 8400. The former is 1.1GHz faster and has 4MB more cache. Perhaps better for computer simulations and scientific computations?

About this 6-channel case... Usually the total RAM in a computer is 8GB, 16GB, 32GB, 64GB, 128GB, etc. Under 6-channel, it will be 8GBx6 = 48GB, 16GBx6=96GB, expensive 32GBx6= 192GB. Doesn't it look at bit strange? Is this the way things happen when Cascade Lake and future systems come out? Why 6-channel?

Looks like the best way to ensure compatibility and high performance is to buy dual channel RAM for this system and when new CPUs come out later, get a 6-channel kit. If I do that, perhaps I just buy an extra case and a power supply to have two computers or just use this system until PCIe 4.0 or 4.0 components come out.

How is Crucial compared with G.Skill? I used Crucial RAM over 10 years ago. Crucial recommends RAM running at 2666 while G.Skill recommends 3200. So, if I use 8400, no point to go for 3200. If I use 8700K, better to OC and go for 3200 RAM?

Too many uncertainties to make a good decision.

jojesa · Apr 25, 2018

Which task, exactly will be this build main duties?

You go with the RAM supported by the motherboard you get.
With the i5-8400 2666MHz RAM and with the 8700K 3200MHz RAM

If I were you, I would get the system I need at the moment and later on upgrade when needed.

In similar cases (transitional workstations) I recommended an HP or Dell workstation (even refurbished ones)
Then when you are ready you build a better one

modeonoff · Apr 25, 2018

Main duties for this build will be GPU CUDA scientific computations.

Thanks for reminding me the differences in RAM speed between the CPUs.

I used a dual Xeon HP Z workstation with 64GB RAM with water cooling system built in. It was very nice but I read that some manufacturers limit the BIOS? to limit the ways customers can update the system. For example, in some laptops and desktops, they made something in the BIOS to make the exchange of SSD as the boot drive impossible. For example, computers in retail stores have Windows install. If I want to replace the SSD that came with the computers by a new one and install Linux, it won't work due to some kind of BIOS locking from the manufacturers. Some users tried it and failed.

jojesa · Apr 25, 2018

modeonoff :

That mostly applies to home systems (desktops and laptops) with secure boot.
You could disable secure boot and if you cannot then add your own signing key so you could install a Linux operating systems.

Some pre-built workstations might not have as many options as custom build for reliability purposes.
They might not want people that do not know what they are doing, tinkering with RAM or CPU settings that could render a system unstable or even cause permanent damage.

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