Just replaced mobo, now turns off immediately. Now what?

ambush

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Last week, I was happily coding away on my best machine that's about 7 years old when it just shut itself off and stayed utterly dead. So I ordered the same model mobo for a replacement, and I just finished putting it all together, and now it will only stay on for a second before shutting off again. But at least this time it doesn't stay dead; it'll keep on turning on then off every time.

Computer: Self-built desktop
Mobo: ASUS Z97-A / USB 3.1
CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K CPU @ 4.00GHz
RAM: 2 x G.Skill 8GB DIMM DDR3 PC3-21300U
PSU: Corsair RM 850W

Now at first I figured the PSU died or had some problem(s), so since I own an Antec digital PSU tester, I hooked it up and let it run for several hours. There was not even a tiny blip of a problem -- the PSU is perfect.

The only other reasonable possibility was that the mobo died, which is why I ordered a replacement. And that new board is picture-perfect, not a bent pin or other defect can be seen.

I'm pretty good at this system building and troubleshooting, having assembled about 16 of them, but I'm stumped this time. I would just go all trial and error, but given what's happened, I'd be a total moron if I didn't ask for your advice and suggestions.

What should I do next, please?
 
It could be still be the PSU. All those PSU testers don't put any real load on the PSU in order to test it. They only reports back basic voltage levels and let you know that the PSU is turning on. The don't tell however what happens when you are trying to boot a PC. They can't test or emulate that process. So you have to test your system with another PSU. Only then you can be certain about your PSU's condition.

Another possible suspect is the CPU cooling system. Are you sure that it's not dead?

Finally do you have a PCIe graphics card? A failed/damaged PCIe card can cause those symptoms. Off course this can also happen with every component that is connected to the motherboard. So you have to unplug everything form the mobo (HDDs, SSDs, optical drives, USB devices, PCIe cards etc), in order to troubleshoot further. Also you should leave only one memory stick and try to test it in every available RAM slot. If that doesn't work do the same with the 2nd RAM stick. Good luck.

EDIT: If nothing of the above works then you may have to consider the possibility that the CPU got somehow damaged. It's not common but it can still happen. Usually a bad failing motherboard can cause this and unfortunately people realise that only after they replace the bad motherboard.
 

ambush

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Wow! What a great and helpful reply! Thank you enormously!

I'll get started just as you suggest, one thing at a time, and report back.
 
Also if nothing of the above works then you may have to consider the possibility that the CPU got somehow damaged. It's not common but it can still happen. Usually a bad/failing motherboard can cause this and unfortunately people realise that only after they replace the bad motherboard.
 

ambush

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Well, I just received a replacement PSU, a Corsair RM750x (when I first built this machine, I thought I was going to have quite a few HDDs directly SATA connected, which is why I bought a 850 watt PSU. But I chose USB 3.0/3.1 Gen 2 instead, so I didn't need that much power). In high hopes, I connected it with the new cables that came with it, and turned in on.

Aargh! :fou: Same thing as last time!

If it really is my CPU, I'll just go off and kill myself :/ It was near impossible to find the cash for a replacement mobo and a new PSU, buying a replacement CPU as well is a non-starter...

But it now occurs to me that there's another, probably more likely explanation: My NZXT Phantom PHAN-001BK could well have some kind of power connection or cable problem. So what I'll try first is removing the mobo and PSU and try them externally. Unless you have a better idea?

Once again, I'm very grateful that you're continuing to help me out!




 

ambush

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Well, that didn't help. I didn't actually remove the mobo & PSU; instead I just unplugged all the Systems Panel connections (power, LEDs, etc) and a separate Silverstone digital info display (which sat between things like the CPU fan and chassis fans and temperature probes, etc). Then I shorted the two power pins to turn it on, and got the same results.

It looks like it's probably the CPU. But I don't get it: When the first symptom appeared (it turned itself off and wouldn't turn on, even as briefly as it's doing now) I hadn't touched the system or mobo or anything at all for several months! And it's impossible to believe that the current problem only occurred while swapping motherboards a few days ago. I cannot accept that.

So the only explanation I can come up with is that Intel's manufacturing quality control failed on this CPU, because when it died the CPU and the rest of the system was cool to the touch, so an overheat condition certainly didn't occur. And I also find it absurdly remote that there was a PSU glitch right in the middle of perfect functioning.

Since I really can't afford a replacement CPU -- even a used one -- I guess I'm SOL! :kaola:
 

ambush

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OK, since I've now bought two expensive items that were almost certainly completely unnecessary, I just can't impulsively think of buying yet a third, extremely expensive item! So I beg you, is there anything else I can try first that makes sense?

I'm losin it...
 
First calm down. I didn't tell you to get a new PSU. I just told you to borrow a PSU just for testing purposes. Do you have a case speaker connected to the motherboard? A dead RAM stick could also cause this. So try to remove both RAM sticks and try to boot the system without RAM. Check if anything changes. If you happen to have a speaker you may hear some beeps.

Also try to remove everything connected to the motherboard except the motherboard power cables from the PSU (while we are here make sure that the EPS 12V CPU power cable is plugged to the motherboard). So you should remove everything (graphics cards, PCIe devices, USB devices, keyboard, mouse, monitor, speakers, optical drives hard drives, SSDs, everything). Right now your only concern is to make your system stay on. If one of those devices connected to the motherboard is fried, it may be creating a sort that prevents your system from booting.

Finally since this is a new motherboard try to clear the CMOS. Also try to change the CMOS battery with a new one.

If nothing of the above works then your previous motherboard probably died and somehow managed to take the CPU with it. A single power spike for a split of a second from a dying motherboard VRM is enough to fry a CPU. It's an extremely unfortunate situation. I'm sorry but I can't think of a better explanation but before we come to this conclusion follow the above troubleshooting instructions. We have to eliminate all probable suspects before reaching the final one. Good luck.

EDIT: Getting a new CPU is expensive and you shouldn't really invest money in old technology, so before you take that route try to RMA the motherboard. It's a long shot, but your new motherboard could still be defective. It may be a new board but it's a really old model and many years have passed since it was manufactured. You may also take your CPU to a repair/service shop and have them test it for you.
 

ambush

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Oh, kind sir! I deeply apologize since it appears you thought I blamed you or held you responsible for anything whatsoever! That never even occurred to me! You are totally blameless; I was just venting my own exasperation at my situation. No, you've been nothing but extremely kind and extremely helpful -- thanks again! :)

The reason I went ahead and ordered a replacement PSU is that none of my friends had one available and my own other PSU is embedded into a tiny, extremely cramped case that was pure hell to install! There was no way I was going to try to remove and re-install it again. And I'm considering returning it, but not until I've resolved these issues.



First, yes, I have a connected speaker, but I've never heard any beeps at all. AndI haven't tried removing both RAM sticks, but I will. I did ensure that the one stick I left in was where Asus instructed me to put a single stick.



Another good idea, thanks. I removed everything but the mobo, the PSU, a monitor (connected to the on-board Intel graphics rather than my usual nVidia card), and mouse & keyboard. But I will certainly attempt your suggestion.

The replacement mobo came with it's own new battery, but I tried replacing it with the old one and clearing CMOS. Sadly, that didn't work.



Thank you enormously! Please don't doubt for a second that I'm anything but deeply appreciative of your valuable time and obvious expertise.



Well, I bought both the mobo and the CPU as brand new, and they are only about 3.5 years old (too old for the respective warranties, though), although I realize that the technology is older than that. But your final suggestion is excellent and is what I'm going to try next.

Only a rare individual would have dedicated so much time for me and these issues: You are indeed one of the very few!

 
Thanks. You are very kind. I hope that eventually you'll be able to fix your PC. I have helped a lot of people on this site but sometimes people (the minority) get rude because they buy new parts and then blame me for not fixing their problem. They don't understand that I'm only making suggestions here based on the info that I receive. I don't have access to their machine. You are obviously not one of them. Thanks again and good luck.
 

ambush

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Hi again, panathas! Well, on your wise suggestion, I took my i7-4790K CPU to be tested, and they found that it had definitely failed. They said they'd seen about 10 4'th generation Haswell CPUs fail, usually not long after the warranty expired (just like mine). They said something about how Gen 4 was the first one where they stopped soldering the leads, and used some other apparently not quite ready for prime time method, which they think is the reason for these failures.

Anyway, just today I received a brand new i7-4790K, installed it, and powered up. It entered the BIOS once, but after switching from AHSC (sp?) disk mode to RAID mode, when I booted up a red LED on the ASUS Z97-A mobo stayed lit every time and I could no longer access the BIOS properly. But here's the thing: To the best I can figure, that LED is not in the location of any of the LEDs in the manual!

On ASUS Z-series motherboards (and perhaps all ASUS mobos, I don't know) there's a circular medallion-like thing with "ASUS" printed on it (what's that called?) The LED that keeps getting lit is very close to that, on the side AWAY from the CPU, so I can't imagine that it's the CPU error LED. But the manual doesn't show ANY LEDs near there!

The official ASUS Z97-A forum hasn't seen any post but mine in quite a while (and mine never got any replies), so there's no point in asking there.

Would you be so kind as to help me figure out what error that red LED is signalling, please?

Thanks!
 
Usually all leds have something printed next to them. It may say CPU,GPU, Mem or something else. If the place next or under/over is blank, try to find the other important leds on the motherboard (CPU, GPU and Mem). That way you'll know what that led isn't and you may be able to pinpoint what that led is indeed representing. Another useful rule is that usually those leds are close to the parts that they belong. For example a GPU led is close to the first PCIe 16x slot that is usually used for GPUs. Also almost all boards have a power led that stays on all the time, maybe that's it.

Finally why did you select the raid option? Do you have 2 disks (HDDs/SDDs) that you have previously configured this way? You may have also made another mistake while configuring the UEFI/BIOS. If that's the case, you should try to reset the CMOS and you'll be able to access the BIOS again. Good luck.
 

ambush

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Right again, oh knowledgeable panathas! It was night when I looked before my last posting, but with the sun up I finally saw the printed label (I feel rather dumb!). It was the Boot Device LED, which I've straightened out, but only to a limited extent.

Before continuing with my almost infinitely frustrating story, let me answer your questions about why I'm using RAID. The answer? How does "hubris" sound? :/ Well, far in the past (OK, 3 years or so ago), when I was deep enough in the black to be buying plenty of expensive computemo components, I decided to use SSDs in all my systems for the boot device(s). But for the system under discussion, the fastest I've ever had -- and knowing that by far the biggest system bottleneck is disk access -- I decided I'd buy two Samsung high-end SSDs and connect them in a RAID 0 configuration for maximum speed. Of course I always made full partition copy backups to non-RAID HDDs, since ya never know what might happen.

Just like what's happening now, dammit! :fou: (for the record, that's certainly not directed at you, but to the capricious gods of technology).

OK, so I hit upon clearing the CMOS as soon as I woke up, which worked fine, but the BIOS defaults to AHCI, so I changed it to RAID and rebooted. (I had already connected the regular HDD containing my latest backup from April 22 to a different computer and altered the System registry hive to disable AHCI and enable RAID, because at least I'm smart enough to know how messed up it will get otherwise). But the RAID BIOS reported the 2-disk RAID 0 array had "failed". After hair-tearing testing, including trying to connect the two SSDs separately on a different system, I can only get one of them to be recognized, even in AHCI mode.

But I figure that might be normal: Maybe the second disk of a RAID 0 array lacks the necessary header and MBR, so it can never be recognized without re-formatting it. Wise sir, I ask your expert opinion: Is that the case? Or do you think that SSD is just broke? I bought a ridiculously expensive piece of software that analyzes SSDs and the SMART data and whatever in order to roughly predict its remaining lifetime, and when I last ran it about 2 months ago, it reported that both SSDs were in perfect shape and they should last another couple of decades.

I sure don't want to format the questionable one prematurely, since I own 2 or 3 pieces of software that allegedly can recover all or most data from a broken RAID set, and stupidly, my most recent backup was from a month ago, and I've made some important changes in that time. Even though the CPU had died during that period, I connected the two SSDs as RAID 0 to a different computer and kept working with them. (At least I made another independent backup on that other system, but that was also 22-April).

Damn, I'm sorry for all these endless words! I genuinely apologize for pressing your patience so hard, but I may as well finish... I can't get my 64-bit Windows 7 Pro system to boot correctly more than about half the time! I've run ChkDsk on all the disks and checked all I can think of, but curiously I have much greater success booting into full Win 7 than trying to enter Safe Mode, which after about half an hour I just lose all patience and reboot -- I've never seen it complete.

Well, I've been working on this for over 12 hours straight today, and if I keep going I'll soon be foaming at the mouth and howling at the moon, so I'm giving up for today. Whatever suggestions you may have will be as welcome as a brick of solid gold...

G'day!
 

Karadjgne

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Well, there's no benefit for boot drives in a raid array. The old hdds, yes, definitely was a benefit. Hdds are spinning disc's with heads that move, so imagine a blip of info needed is ½way down the disc, the head has to literally go find it, read it and then do something with it. That all takes time. With raid arrays the info is read from 2 hdds, so gets something done faster as there's less info per file. Really helped boot, OS, any app that needed file searches etc. With SSDs, there's no search. The info is basically right there in front and with speeds approaching 10x the transfer rate of a hdd, the only thing raid does is separate the data. It's of no real benefit at all.

So, that said, you said you made full single partition backups. Good idea. I'd simply start from scratch with a standard, non raid C drive, load just that one ssd up with the OS, then plug in your backup and move it to the C drive. Get rid of the raid entirely. Raid used to be a good idea for performance or security, but with today's SSDs, it's more hassle than it's worth.
 
I'm sorry but I can't help you this time. I haven't used Raid for 10 years (WinXp era) so my recent experience is pretty limited. One general rule I used though was to never move raid drives between systems, unless I have previously made a back-up image of the drives. A lot of things can go wrong and troubleshooting is extremely difficult. In your case it could be many things. I suggest you make a new post at a more relevant part of the forum. I'm sure that more experienced users will help you with this one. Good luck.
 

Karadjgne

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With SSDs, the advice will be to dump the raid, it does nothing but cause heartaches and headaches as currently experienced. If you have software that'll recover the raid data, I'd use it after setting up just a single ssd as boot. Once raid is broken, it's a giant, mean, nasty, wounded grizzly bear of an issue to get fixed and even then it's still iffy. I haven't used raid personally since way back in the day when all I could afford was 120Mb hdds on my dx2/66. Soon as 450/540Mb was cheap enough, bye bye raid headaches.