Which storage system most suits my needs?

mon4ro

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Hello!

I have been thinking of buying/building a NAS system. What I want from this device to be able to access fairly large amounts of data (around 2 TB) such as photos, videos, project files, etc. on many devices, whose OS cover both Windows and OSX. This is why have been thinking of getting a NAS. However, I would also like to back-up my MacBook on this device, which probably means installing time capsule on the device - I am not really 100 % sure, to be honest.

Is there a machine that would cater to my needs? Can I build a NAS myself and somehow use it as simple storage and back-up for a Mac. I have built PCs before, that is not a problem and will gladly do it if it suits my needs and is more price-efficient.

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!
-mon4ro
 

stdragon

Admirable
Not the cheapest (can't beat free in some cases), bu Synology makes a sweet NAS. The DSM OS it uses can run all sorts of apps from media hosting, Docker, all sorts of stuff. Note, app availability in DSM will be limited to the type of CPU it uses. Some two-bay Synology NAS units use anywhere from a Marvel chip, to a real Intel Core x86 processor.

https://www.synology.com/en-us/products

As for Time Machine. Link below.

https://www.synology.com/en-global/knowledgebase/DSM/tutorial/Backup_Restore/How_to_back_up_files_from_Mac_to_Synology_NAS_with_Time_Machine

 
If you want many people to have access to it, are they all on the same network, or are you wanting to broadcast your shared files over the web?
As much as a NAS from synology is great (i use 2 of them) I also use Dropbox - 1TB limit on mine, so can easily share stuff between people all over the world and also great for backup because it lasts for ages, even when deleted you can get stuff back.
 

stdragon

Admirable
Here are the top three 2-Bay Synology units worth looking at. I'd personally go with a DS218+. But it really comes down to what you need. But because you mentioned Time Machine, be sure to choose the units that supports Btrfs. The cheaper models typically don't.

https://www.synology.com/en-us/products/compare/DS218/DS218+/DS718+
 
Ever since I discovered NAS4FREE I have only built NAS systems for my NAS needs.

NAS4FREE turns pretty much any computer into a fully featured NAS.

The performance of even the most modest of computer; i3 + 8 gigabytes of ram, is much faster than anything you will find in a consumer grade NAS from Synology.

For comparison in the link;
https://www.synology.com/en-us/products/compare/DS218/DS218+/DS718+

Their top model, DS718+, has a Intel Celeron J3455 with a top speed of 2.3 Gigahertz with 2 gigabytes of ram.
Memory is expandable up to 6 gigabytes, but you are stuck with the celeron.

Do note that the DS718+ is priced at $400 for 2 drive bays.
2 drive bays limits us effectively to raid 1.

Most desktop computers have at least 3 or more sata drives allowing for more drives to fit (more space).

The only potential downside to building your own NAS and using NAS4FREE is the slight learning curve of creating the bootable USB key that NAS4FREE runs on and learning how to setup NAS4FREE with the options you want once operational.

Having an old computer from the last 5 years in a closet could be a perfect candidate for a NAS, depending on its specs, and would make this a practically free NAS solution.

Let me know if you are interested in this.



Forgot to mention, one of the biggest advantages NAS4FREE has going for it is the ZFS file system.

The ZFS file system is able to use the ram in the NAS as a read cache, ARC is what ZFS calls along with in the fly compression facilitated by your hopefully not a celeron cpu.

This means that frequently accessed files are stored in the ram of the NAS allowing for subsequent accesses to pull from ram and not from the hard drive. (Technically ZFS maintains 2 lists, most frequently accessed files and last accessed files. Files on both lists take priority in going to the read cache/ARC.)

Pulling from ram is extremely fast and will fully saturate a 100 megabit, 1 gigabit or even a 40 gigabit link, assuming everything you want is in ram / ARC and the client computer's hard drive/ssd can keep up.

Having said that the more RAM the NAS has the more data it is able to cache.
 

mon4ro

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Those Synology setups seem convenient and sweet! Thanks for sharing! Even with native Time Machine support without any magic tricks. Sounds great!
-mon4ro
 

mon4ro

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Well, so far I have though it only for our household, so two persons, both of whose photos and MacBook backups could be stored on it.

Would it be possible to access a physical NAS from another location? I do have a home studio in another address and now that I think about it might be sweet to access some of the data on both locations, but it is not necessarily required.
-mon4ro

 

mon4ro

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That does sound pretty interesting for sure. The only limitation I have is space - I only have a single room share for two so there really isn't enough room for even a mid-tower - it would have to be a SFF build and I'm afraid it might be a bit more expensive.

The better specs do tempt me but that will be close to 1000 € to build one, I assume? I do not have any old computers laying around to convert into a NAS. However, the learning curve should not be a problem.

Is limitation to RAID 1 a big problem?

Cheers,
-mon4ro

 

stdragon

Admirable


RAID 1 is mirroring. Think of having two wheels on a single axle (like on an 18 wheeler). One blows out, and you still keep on trucking until it's replaced. Well, in RAID 1, it's like that with with the HDDs in that they're always mirrored in real-time. Effectively, you only have the capacity of one drive. So for example you have two 6TB drives installed in a RAID 1 configuration. You don't get 12TB of capacity, you only get 6 TB.

Basically, in a RAID 1, the largest volume size is limited to whatever the largest capacity HDDs you can buy (and supported).

Good news, modern systems will allow for future expansion of a RAID 1 volume. You replace one drive with a larger capacity, let it fully rebuild, then replace the other drive, let it rebuild again. If it doesn't expand automatically, there are additional steps that might need to be performed manually (but it's not difficult)

I can't speak of other DIY NAS solutions, but I do know that any RAID that's based on ZFS is flexible. I can't say for sure, but I'm certain it too could expand a RAID 1 volume in much the same way.
 
The raid 1 limitation only matters if you have more data than can fit on one drive.

If you used 2 - 4 terabyte drives in a raid 1 then you would have another 2 terabytes to go before you filled it up.

If you anticipate you won't use more than 2 more terabytes in lets say the next 3-5 years then 4 terabyte drives would be perfect.

As for the cost, it only costs as much as you are willing to pay.

For instance for my main NAS4FREE backup server and steam games I have it running on a Xeon (4 core with Hyperthreading forget the actual model) with 32 gigabytes of ram and 6 - 8 terabyte drives in a raid 6, zraid2 technically, that I built myself.

But the majority of home users, me included, probably don't need something close to that expensive/fast for 1-5 people at the most using it at the same time.


I have another NAS4FREE computer setup as an ftp server, yep NAS4FREE has an option for that too, with an i3-2120, 8 gigabytes of ram and 3 - 1 terabyte drives in a raid 5.

Now this computer I didn't build.

I bought a Dell OptiPlex 390 off of newegg for about $115.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883164317

Core i3 dual core with hyperthreading at 3.3 gigahertz is more than enough speed to max out a gigabit connection along with the processing power to do the compression I use for the data. On the fly compression saves space and when used with LZ4 compression actually increases read speed. This all happens on the background without you having to do anything. Obviously this only works for compressible data, not movies, but there is no downside to turn LZ4 compression on.

I removed the 250 gigabyte drive and put in 3 - 1 terabyte WD Red also from newegg.

I upgraded the ram from 4 gigabytes to 8 gigabytes with a spare 4 gigabyte ddr3 stick I had in my desk.


If you were to buy something similar to the above today with the hard drives upgraded to match your needs it would look something like this;

Optiplex 380 = $115
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883164317

2 - 4 terabyte WD Red = $250
$125 x 2
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236599
Only $10 more than 3 - 2 terabyte WD Red and faster

Crucial 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3L $29
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIADRH6SW7551

Bringing the total to $115+$250+$29 = $394 before any taxes or shipping.



I didn't plan on the price being nearly the exact same as the Synology DS718+

Which to recap looks like this

Their top model, DS718+, has a Intel Celeron J3455 with a top speed of 2.3 Gigahertz with 2 gigabytes of ram WITHOUT ANY HARD DRIVES.

You would still need to buy $250 worth of hard drives to make the Synology DS718+ do anything

I'm pretty sure Dr Evil is going to run a NAS business in the next Austin Powers lol.
 

stdragon

Admirable
So basically, a DYI is cheaper, and more flexible. However, you're kinda on your own for support (no 1-800 number to call) short of hitting the forums online.

A Synology is more expensive for the hardware and capability you get, but, it's very well supported, has a warranty, and they offer support. It's also in a tiny box that you "set and forget" sorta speak.

At the end of the day, it's really about what you want out of it, and the expectations that you set going forward.
 


Absolutely true.

With the way the numbers are working out the warranty and support would effectively cost him about $250 versus the price of doing it yourself.

This $250 is the cost of the hard drives not included with the Synology DS718+ .

Do note that this brings the total cost of the Synology DS718+ to $400+$250 or $650.


In order to actually purchase a NAS, lets say from Synology, that was cheaper than a DIY NAS4FREE you would need to severely downgrade the parts, $150 being the cutoff due still needing to buy 2 $150 WD Red.


This Synology Nas actually does exist, not that I would advise anyone to buy it.

Synology DS216se Diskless System Network Storage $150
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16822108213

But to reach this price point they had to downgrade the processor to a Marvell Armada 370 800 MHz Single core

And the ram was reduced from 2 gigabytes to 256 megabytes.

As you can imagine, reducing the processor speed by nearly 3 times 2300mhz to 800mhz, reducing the core count from quad core to single core and reducing ram by a factor of 10 isn't good for speed.

 
My old Synology DS413 floods out my 1gb lan and its got only 1Ghz dual core, 1gb ram and 4x4TB drives
Runs perfectly, because as a storage device, you don't need powerful CPU's because it's just storing data.
If you are going to run software on the device then you will start to get limited performance... but if you only want storage, it's a great device.