Networking idiot needs help with two routers

spschillerstrom · Jul 8, 2018

TLDR: Can you connect more than one wireless router to the main ISP modem installed on site?

I searched through the forums here for a while and was unable to find a solution for my particular quandary. I agreed to help my parents figure out how to get two separate WiFi routers (hopefully with two separate log ins) in each of their buildings.

My parents have a large home with a detached garage/office. The garage/office is about 200 feet away from the main house. They currently have really great high speed Comcast cable (faster than most for the rural area they live).

The cable service comes in through the basement to a Comcast branded modem. That modem is conveniently mounted in an area that would have the shortest possible run to the garage/office (+/- 200ft).

From the Comcast modem the Cat5/6 snakes up through the floor to the total opposite side of the house where they have a Netgear wireless modem. The Netgear modem could not be any less conveniently located to connect to the garage/office.

Everything I've read suggested daisy chaining one WiFi router to the previous WiFi router, I want to connect a second router to the Comcast modem in the basement. Is this possible?

kanewolf · Jul 8, 2018

You can USUALLY only have a single router connected to the ISP modem. Only one public IP address is provided by the ISP.

In your situation, you should get a router positioned by the modem. You could turn off the WIFI if it interferes (or it would provide better WIFI in the basement). Then at the end of the existing ethernet cable, you add a WIFI access point (and optional ethernet switch). You connect the existing ethernet to one of the four ports on the router. You then add your second cable to the garage/office off another port on the router. You put a WIFI access point (and optional ethernet switch) in the garage office.

t53186 · Jul 8, 2018

Typically the comcast modem would have 4 LAN ports. Is so you can plug in 4 wireless routers if desired. Each could be assigned a different SSID and login credentials. You could also run cat5 out to the garage/office and install a wifi router in that building.

Hopefully I understand your question correctly. If not please post again

leoscott · Jul 8, 2018

You could connect two routers, yes. They way to do it is to connect a SWITCH to the Comcast box and then plug in the existing wire from the Comcast box to one of the ports on the switch and add a new network cable to different port on the switch to run to where you want the other router.
Something like this is all you need:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833704179

nigelivey · Jul 8, 2018

leoscott :

Only if you have paid for more than one public IP address.

nigelivey · Jul 8, 2018

t53186 :

As long as you can live with double NAT if not you would use WAPs

kanewolf · Jul 8, 2018

t53186 :

If it has four ports is is not a modem. It is a modem/router combo. If it is a modem/router combo then there is no need for an additional router in the basement. If it is just a modem with a single LAN port then a router in the basement is required.

jsmithepa · Jul 8, 2018

There are a few ways to do this DEPENDING on your existing equipment as already mentioned by others. Better post pic of back of the modem+routers then we can tell you for certain.

spschillerstrom · Jul 8, 2018

You guys are rock stars! every once in a while you get a reminder that the internet is more than just a wretched hive of scum and villainy.

Here are some pictures of the Comcast modem installed in the basement at my parents house.

https://imgur.com/a/V2yY2yZ

The modem output appears to have only one Ethernet jack. This lends credence to Leoscott's idea of using a switch box. I should not that it is the same person, my dad, using the internet in both the house and the detached shop so separate credentials seem unnecessary. In the shop he plans to use a direct Ethernet connection to his desktops. He would also like to have wi-fi available for his cell phone (he lives in a cellular dead zone).

Obviously we hope to achieve this project without having to pay Comcast more money but we will if he have to.

Thanks a ton guys.

kanewolf · Jul 8, 2018

A single output would NOT work with an ethernet switch unless you purchase multiple public IP addresses. Moving a router to the basement and using the multiple outputs from the router is the correct implementation for home internet service. Then it is just a question of what you connect to the LAN ports on the router.

spschillerstrom · Jul 8, 2018

kanewolf :

Can I just install a standard router at the modem, connect the currently installed house router to that and install a second router in the garage?

kanewolf · Jul 9, 2018

spschillerstrom :

Yes you can. The two secondary routers can be left as routers and isolate the two networks OR you can configure them as access points and have a single network. Here is the sticky on converting a router to an AP -- http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/36406-43-convert-wireless-router-wireless-access-point

failboat · Jul 9, 2018

spschillerstrom :

If you want two networks isolated from each other and even further client isolation on the guest network you will need vlans. edgerouter+unifi aps can do this. make sure the route rules don't allow from one subnet to the other. client isolation will only give internet to each device on that network.

nested routers can do a little of what you are wanting but not very well. multiple wireless routers also congest the bands in the same area opposed to having the right equipment to isolate the networks. the last router will be able to make inbound connections to anything on your network that isn't secured. so if you have a file share or something with no pw they would be able to connect to it if they port scanned the network and saw all the services you are running. if the guest is in the middle then the last router's NAT will be blocking inbound connections and as long as they have no router admin access/ no promiscuous modes allowed they can't sniff a lot of data from the middle.

If you don't care about network separation then run a cable for an access point and one or more for wiring the desktop.

androbourne · Jul 9, 2018

The real question is what are you trying to archive from all this? Are you trying to move the location of the WiFi to be near the Comcast modem for a better signal while also maintaining a connection in the basement?

Honestly the clean way to do it would be to get two WAPs and a small switch. Plug Comcast modem into switch with Netgear and WAP. Then remove the Netgear (if only being used for WiFi) and install the second WAP there.

Using two WAPs of the same make/model is the better idea instead of trying to reuse that Netgear wireless modem.

Now if you need a LAN connection down in the basement. You could either get a WAP with LAN ports or another small switch for the basement.

At home I run a setup similar to what you are trying to do. I have a PFSense firewall that links to a Linksys AC1500 on the LAN side just for WiFi only. However, you need to make sure the secondary router is configured properly or you will run into double nat and other issues. It's not recommended and thats when WAPs and switches come into play.

spschillerstrom · Aug 21, 2018

I feel like a simple explanation for exactly what I want will help this. I have one modem from Comcast (basement of main house). From that modem I want to get physical Ethernet plugs and a WAP to the main house office upstairs and the next door garage/office. Both locations need wired ports and wireless. I would prefer all of it to have have the same passwords (my parents can't keep track of more than the ones they already have). The main objective is to get make things as simple as possible. My parents do no networking, they don't use a NAS, they go on Facebook and google only with occasional multiplayer gaming when I visit. If anyone one could put together a list for all the components I will need I will be super grateful.

I know this is an old thread but out garage project is almost ready for bringing over the internet.

Thank you guys and gals!

spschillerstrom · Aug 21, 2018

androbourne :

The real question is what are you trying to archive from all this? Are you trying to move the location of the WiFi to be near the Comcast modem for a better signal while also maintaining a connection in the basement?

Honestly the clean way to do it would be to get two WAPs and a small switch. Plug Comcast modem into switch with Netgear and WAP. Then remove the Netgear (if only being used for WiFi) and install the second WAP there.

Using two WAPs of the same make/model is the better idea instead of trying to reuse that Netgear wireless modem.

Now if you need a LAN connection down in the basement. You could either get a WAP with LAN ports or another small switch for the basement.

At home I run a setup similar to what you are trying to do. I have a PFSense firewall that links to a Linksys AC1500 on the LAN side just for WiFi only. However, you need to make sure the secondary router is configured properly or you will run into double nat and other issues. It's not recommended and thats when WAPs and switches come into play.

Can you put an Ethernet switch and WAP together so you could hardware or go wireless in the same room?

androbourne · Aug 21, 2018

spschillerstrom :

androbourne :

Can you put an Ethernet switch and WAP together so you could hardware or go wireless in the same room?

Yes! Just put a small 4 port switch right there on the WAP end. Plug the cable from the wall into the switch then into the WAP and if you want to hardwire your PC. Just plug it directly into the switch as well.

You can have both your PC and WAP on the same switch without issues.

kanewolf · Aug 21, 2018

Yes. If you have an ethernet cable running to a room, you can put an ethernet switch on that single cable, which goes to the primary router, and plug a WAP into the switch. You then have multiple wired ports and local WIFI in that room.

punkncat · Aug 21, 2018

Sounds like what you actually "want" is a wireless web. The little pucks that share the same network....my understanding is that Google even has one with an RJ jack on it.

Connect a (however many port you need) hub to the existing router. Use it to run to your house access points. Save one jack for the wireless net base, and boom.

Networking idiot needs help with two routers

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