Wired connection, severe latency spikes every 1 hour or so. Help! PingPlotter data included.

grzlybear · Jul 14, 2018

****UPDATE**** See my last post on this thread. The problem all along was Outlook.

Hi! I'm going to try and keep this short and to the point, as I've been tearing my hair out over trying to fix this for probably the last two months.

While playing video games, my ping will be perfectly fine, and then all of a sudden spike to around 400ms or so, and remain like that for about 10-15 minutes. I thought this was random, but you can see from the pingplotter data this occurs about every hour or so: https://imgur.com/a/Wd0mcDg (here's the tracert it's been running to google: https://imgur.com/a/Zekhse5)

I have had my ISP (MaxxSouth) out here 3 times due to this problem specifically. My downstream levels at the time were 10+dbmv, which I thought was the problem, and they finally installed an attenuator to get them in check, but my problem still persists. Here's a look at my downstream/upstream levels currently: https://imgur.com/a/hfllHz0

Here's some other info that may be helpful:
ISP: MaxxSouth
Speed: 120mb/s
Connection: wired
Processor: Intel Core i5-7500
Router/Modem (from ISP): ARRIS DG2460

Things connected to wifi: 1. AppleTV (does not appear affected by this.. Netflix does not stutter or have any issues at all, any time of day). 2. Xbox (tried this out yesterday.. did demonstrate brief latency, but not sure if this is from internet issues or because it's so far away from router), and 3. an iMac that is used by roommate for work.. he's video chatted on it and other things, never seemed to have an issue)

Thus, my PC is only thing wired into the router/modem combo. We've only lived here in this brand new house since maybe August 2017, and this problem began about 3 months ago and has been consistent since then. Please, please, offer any suggestions and I'll give them a shot and reply back with my findings. Also, if there's any other information that would be helpful, I'm happy to provide it. I'm feeling desperate to fix this and ISP thus far has not been able to remedy it.

pctech2005 · Jul 15, 2018

have you checked the cable run with a cable tester?

bill001g · Jul 15, 2018

Not sure why you get the high latency but the trace also shows packet loss. The problem appears to be on the connection between your house and the ISP.

Your upstream level is very close to the maximum recommended level. Clear the counters and see how long it takes for the errors counters to increase. You will see some here and there but you should not see large numbers even in a day.

Try to connect the modem with a short cable where the connection comes into the house. See if your numbers are any different. If it is bad to that point the ISP should fix it......there equipment is actually much more advanced than the modem so they should know if the levels are adequate.

failboat · Jul 16, 2018

Do you actually get the speed you pay for? In your screenshot it looks like you have DOCSIS 2.0. You really need 3.0.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS

also, try and log into your router so you can check the bandwidth. Most router's don't have even good bandwidth monitoring. If bandwidth is spiking at the same time as the latency then it's likely bufferbloat. it seems odd that something could max your connection for that long @ 120Mbs. run a speed test while it's lagging. if it's abysmal it might be bufferbloat.

streaming video uses tcp so it's not going to be impacted by temporary latency. only UDP will, like gaming.

If you have an old pc with two networks you can make it into a very good router to test with using ipfire.

grzlybear · Jul 17, 2018

pctech2005 :

I haven't! I'm somewhat tech-savvy, but I'm not sure of the equipment I'd need to do this. Is this something I can purchase at a typical retail store?

grzlybear · Jul 17, 2018

bill001g :

I noticed that the Upstream levels were high as well -- on their last visit, they installed an attenuator (I think that's what it's called) to bring down by Downstream levels. Would bringing my downstream levels down cause my upstream ones to increase?

I'll do the counter thing now and get back with you on that -- thanks for the suggestion. ISP has been out here 2 or 3 times because of this already.. I guess they're perplexed.

grzlybear · Jul 17, 2018

failboat :

Okay, so this is interesting. I ran a speedtest while pinging google. Here's a picture: https://imgur.com/17ogbQi

Red is when it was testing download speed. Ping appeared to spike right when it started but stable out.

Green is when it tested upload speed. As you can see, my ping jumped significantly to 200+. Is this bufferbloat like you mentioned? Are there methods to fixing it?

I will note though that dslreports speedtest didn't detect much bufferbloat (http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/36047151)

It's interesting you point out the DOCSIS... the page with upstream levels does say DOCSIS2.0... and when I open the hardware/frameware page it says " ARRIS DOCSIS 3.0 Touchstone Residential Gateway."

Could this mean I have a 2.0 running to a router that requires 3.0? Is this a problem? I'm not so familiar with that sort of stuff.

Could you tell me more about checking bandwidth? I looked through the router tools (and the manual) and couldn't find anything measuring it.. so I'm wondering if it's even possible to do with this router/modem.

bill001g · Jul 18, 2018

grzlybear :

In some ways downstream levels being on the high end is better than them being on the low end. As long as they were below 15db they should be fine.

It depends on the attenuator they use. They can use ones that only degrade certain frequencies. The upstream uses very low frequencies compared to the downstream. This is complex because they also transmit cable tv over other frequencies.

Unfortunately you can't actually see the real power levels you upload on. The ISP can though on their equipment. In general if the signal level the ISP sees is to low the ISP equipment requests your modem to transmit at a higher level.

It is kinda strange to see such a bad upstream power level number with such strong downstream. If this is directly at the demark to the house then the ISP should do something about it. They should be able to get the upstream power levels into the mid 40db range.

Note the errors numbers are very important. If they do not change much then the problem is not likely in the physical cable connection so it does not pay to adjust things.

failboat · Jul 18, 2018

ping increase under a swamped connection is bufferbloat. with no AQM it's going to happen. That's why I suggested trying to monitor your bandwidth when the latency happens. Swamping your download for 10-15M would require a 10-13GB download. If you don't think anyone is doing that then it could be from swamping your upload. If you can't monitor at the router level then you have to take devices off or try and monitor each one at the device level. cloud backups from pc or phones each your upload.

I'd recommend trying to only plug in your gaming pc to the modem or router with no wireless on and see if the latency happens. Run your resource monitor. If you are getting latency and there is nothing using bandwidth it's got to be issues outside your house.

grzlybear · Jul 18, 2018

bill001g :

grzlybear :

In some ways downstream levels being on the high end is better than them being on the low end. As long as they were below 15db they should be fine.

It depends on the attenuator they use. They can use ones that only degrade certain frequencies. The upstream uses very low frequencies compared to the downstream. This is complex because they also transmit cable tv over other frequencies.

Unfortunately you can't actually see the real power levels you upload on. The ISP can though on their equipment. In general if the signal level the ISP sees is to low the ISP equipment requests your modem to transmit at a higher level.

It is kinda strange to see such a bad upstream power level number with such strong downstream. If this is directly at the demark to the house then the ISP should do something about it. They should be able to get the upstream power levels into the mid 40db range.

Note the errors numbers are very important. If they do not change much then the problem is not likely in the physical cable connection so it does not pay to adjust things.

Gotcha.. thanks for the info, that's helpful to know that this seems somewhat odd and may be fixable by then.

I reset the counters last night, and here about 16 hours later Uncorrectables on every downstream are between 3,000-5,000. I'm guessing this is a significant change? And if so, maybe this is suggestive of something about the physical connection?

bill001g · Jul 18, 2018

That is a lot of packet loss. Mine will go months and get zero on most the channels.

grzlybear · Jul 18, 2018

failboat :

Gotcha. Just now, I turned off the wifi and had only the PC connected. Played some video games and so far, no latency spikes. Granted, I only played for maybe 30-45 minutes. So I'm guessing now I need to add one device at a time to see what's causing the problem?

edit: after turning the two wifi channels back on, latency is right back to spiking. I've disconnected a few things, and there's really not much on it at this point. The 2.4 channel has an iMac and an AppleTV on it.. the 5ghz channel doesn't have anything on it at all.

failboat · Jul 19, 2018

try and look at network monitor of each thing you add back.
if it's doing something you aren't expecting it could be malicious.
it's difficult to troubleshoot this stuff on consumer routers.

grzlybear · Aug 13, 2018

Sorry for the late reply -- but I figured it out. Finally. Thank you all so much for your advice and suggestions. I removed every device as suggested above, and noticed my roommate's desktop (not mine) seemed to be the culprit behind the overwhelming my router with data. I went onto his desktop (a mac) and opened up (I forget the name of it) that shows the amount of data being transferred by each program currently. I noticed OUTLOOK was sending an absolute ton of data, and once I closed it, my latency issues immediately stopped. After further testing, Outlook appears to do this regardless if it is actually sending anything or receiving anything. And really, as soon as my roommate opens up Outlook, BAM, latency issues immediately begin and immediately stopped when it's closed.

It's sort of disheartening to go through all of this when it was something this simple, but if you're reading this and you're having latency issues, be sure to look into Outlook if you're using it. Googling this issue seems to reveal that Outlook is problematic for a lot of people.

failboat · Aug 13, 2018

might be hacked. should run AV and change pws asap. that's not normal

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