Should i use pwm

judewilliams22

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This is gonna be quite long sorry but im stuck :(
So I know what pwm is now but theres no point using it unless its 4 pin connector and its only 3 pin for me coming out of my cpu cooler the kraken x62. My 2 exhaust case fans and my radiator fans are extremely loud but im mainly concerned about the radiator fans. I tried connecting the fans to the 3 pin pwm bbut the fans are so slow quiet but slow not getting enough air into the case. My best option I think is to get some better fans. What are your thoughts? I was thinking the be quiet! silent wings 3 not pwm. I really need help plz Thanks
 
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Which "them" fans are you talking about? What CAM does is control the speed of the fans plugged into the PUMP unit according to the temperature inside the CPU chip. That is, CAM concentrates on keeping the CPU cooled properly. The mobo CHA_FAN headers, on the other hand, control their fans based on a different temperature sensor built into the motherboard, and that is why they should have the CASE vent fans connected to those headers.

What you described above recently was having the rad fans plugged into the CHA_FAN headers that are controlled by the MOTHERBOARD sensor, which is not right. Your most recent post MAY be saying you have tried plugging the 3-pin CASE fans into the cable coming out of the PUMP unit so that CAM con control...

judewilliams22

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that doesent really help man like I said its stuck at 2200rpm which isn't true when using pwm as the fans are too slow
 

Paperdoc

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I'm not sure you do understand PWM fans, and your post suggests you do not understand the Kraken X62 cooler system.

So let's start with fans. The older 3-pin fan system controls the speed of the fan by varying the voltage supplied to the motor, from 12 VDC max down to about 5 VDC - any lower voltage may cause the fan to stall and not re-start until its voltage is raised significantly. The newer 4-pin fans work very differently. They are designed so that, mechanically and electrically, you can plug either fan type into either fan header type, but the results when you mis-match may not be what you hope. A 4-pin fan that uses the PWM control system receives from the mobo header a constant +12 VDC power supply on Pin #2 (instead of varying), a Ground on Pin #1, and sends back to the mobo on Pin #3 the motor speed signal. That is all the same as a 3-pin fan, except for the varying voltage thing. Then the 4-pin fan receives on Pin #4 the PWM control signal. Onside the fan there is a small chip that uses that signal to modify the flow of current from the +12 VDC source through the motor windings to achieve speed changes.

If you plug a 3-pin fan into a 4-pin mobo header that actually is using the PWM Mode to control fans (many mobo headers can use either control Mode), the 3-pin fan gets a constant 12 VDC power supply and never receives the PWM signal it cannot use because it has no chip. So it runs full speed all the time. If you plug a 4-pin fan into a mobo 3-pin header (which can ONLY use the older Voltage Control Mode (aka DC Mode) to control its fans), the fan never receives a PWM signal so its chip cannot modify the current flow. BUT the power being supplied is VARYING in this control mode, so the 4-pin fan's speed IS controlled by the 3-pin header.

Now, your main concern is the fans on the radiator of the Kraken X62 system - you believe they are running too slow even though you see a fan speed reported to be 2200 rpm. I'm afraid you don't understand the information, so let me start by reviewing how the Kraken system SHOULD be connected and operated. The PUMP unit of that system has a 3-pin fan connector cable that plugs into the mobo CPU_FAN header. Its ONLY function is to send to that header the speed of the PUMP itself, and that will always be full speed - the pump is supposed to operate that way. So that is what the 2200 rpm reading is. The Pump unit also has a connector plugged into a SATA power output from the PSU to provide all the power for its pump and fans. Then the two rad fans (these are AER P fans of the 4-pin PWM type) plug into two connectors on a cable coming out of the PUMP unit; these fans do NOT connect to any mobo header. The last cable from the pump plugs into a mobo USB2 header for communication capability. And lastly, you MUST download the free CAM software utility from the NZXT website and install it. That utility communicates with the pump unit using the USB2 connection. CAM is how the two fans on the rad are speed controlled, and that is how CPU cooling is managed - the pump speed never changes, only the fan speeds do. If you want to see the speeds of those rad fans, the mobo cannot tell you that because their speeds are not connected to any mobo point. Those speeds ARE shown inside the CAM software. I would bet that those speeds are much lower than 2200 rpm, AND that the actual CPU internal temperature that drives those speeds is also low, and that's why the fans are not speeding up.

Now, what really started all this is the noise of the case fans. You concluded from that (wrongly, I believe) that the air intake by the rad fans was insufficient. The real issue MAY be that those case fans are not being controlled properly. To examine that and recommend what to do, we need more info.
1. How many case vent fans do you have?
2. What maker and model number are they? IF they were pre-mounted in your case, maybe just tell us what case make and model.
3. For those case fans, what wiring do they have? Do the cables from the fan motors have 3 wires with a 3-hole female fan connector on the end?, Or do they have 4 wires and holes? Right now, where are those case fans plugged in?
4. What is the maker and exact model number of your mobo?

With this info we can look up the relevant details and advise how to set up the case fans.
 

judewilliams22

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First of all I have cam already every since I built this computer second of all I said the fans were actually stuck on max speed that's why there so loud. Intake is good when plugging them into the chassis fan port cus there stuck at max. I currently have all of my case fan holes filled up 1 exhaust back, 1 exhaust top and 2 intake. All 4 are loud but I can deal the actual chassis fans its the radiator. If you need to know my parts here they are :
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/frWHpG

So 1. I have 4 fans out of four fans used up like I said above.

2. I built it myself so I dont know the intake fans are from the kraken x62 and the exhaust fans come pre attatched to the s340 elite.

3. Would have to check for exhaust fans but not worried about them the kraken x62 radiator fans have 4 pins on them and they fit into all the ports ive tried even the 3 pin cable coming out of the top of the part of the cooler ontop of the cpu.
4. Asrock Extreme4 Mobo z370
Yea okay this should help but are the ports coming out of the top of my cpu cooler (the bit actually ontop of the cpu) pwm? There is like 4 or 5 small ports buts these are 3 pin but the 4 pin fans still work with them but when I tried using them the fans weren't getting enough speed so no airflow BUT they were quiet but id rather stick with good airflow but noise for now to help the pc

 

judewilliams22

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First of all I have cam already every since I built this computer second of all I said the fans were actually stuck on max speed that's why there so loud. Intake is good when plugging them into the chassis fan port cus there stuck at max. I currently have all of my case fan holes filled up 1 exhaust back, 1 exhaust top and 2 intake. All 4 are loud but I can deal the actual chassis fans its the radiator. If you need to know my parts here they are :
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/frWHpG

So 1. I have 4 fans out of four fans used up like I said above.

2. I built it myself so I dont know the intake fans are from the kraken x62 and the exhaust fans come pre attatched to the s340 elite.

3. Would have to check for exhaust fans but not worried about them the kraken x62 radiator fans have 4 pins on them and they fit into all the ports ive tried even the 3 pin cable coming out of the top of the part of the cooler ontop of the cpu.
4. Asrock Extreme4 Mobo z370
Yea okay this should help but are the ports coming out of the top of my cpu cooler (the bit actually ontop of the cpu) pwm? There is like 4 or 5 small ports buts these are 3 pin but the 4 pin fans still work with them but when I tried using them the fans weren't getting enough speed so no airflow BUT they were quiet but id rather stick with good airflow but noise for now to help the pc

 
You can't use PWM mode on 3-pin fans, because then everything stays at 12v and thus loud.

Go into UEFI/BIOS setup on the fan control page (Hardware Health Event Monitoring Screen) and under CPU Optional Fan Control Mode and/or Chassis Fan Control Mode, deselect PWM mode and change it to DC mode. That's the only way it can control the speed of 3-pin fans, by varying the voltage.

If you want to use the 4-pin fans then leave it in PWM mode but adjust the speeds on that page higher to your liking. The default sounds like it's too slow
 

judewilliams22

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ok thanks I have changed the cpu optional fan to dc so how do I control itupdate figured out how to thanks man but might have to change to find the best setting as gpu got 40 degrees on idle after doing this :(
 

Paperdoc

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Thanks for those details. I think I've found a way to solve your noise problem.

I'm glad to see you are using the CAM software. Before going further please check that all the connections for the Kraken X62 system are done as its instructions say. That system PUMP unit has coming out of it (according to its manual) one major multi-headed cable, a second cable with up to four 4-pin fan male connectors on it, and a small socket on its side for the cable to the mobo USB2 header. On the rad fan cable, do not be confused by the pin counts. It is doing something that all hubs and splitters do because any mobo fan header (and apparently this applies to the Pump unit's design) can only deal with a speed signal coming back from ONE fan. (More than one fan's signal combined together makes it impossible to read the speed.) So on the several 4-pin male fan connectors on that cable from the pump unit to the rad fans, only the first one actually has all 4 pins. All the others omit Pin #3 so that those fans' signals cannot be connected back to the pump. This has NO impact on the ability to control the other fans' speeds. Thus in the CAM software you will not see separate speeds for both the rad fans. Only one will be shown, and we are to assume that the other (identical) fan also is running the same speed.
1. Both rad fans should be plugged into that fan cable from the pump, with one of them on the first connector that has all four of its pins. You can read the rad fans' speed in the CAM software.
2. The 3-pin female fan connector from the pump should be plugged into the CPU_FAN header. It should NOT go to the CPU_OPT/W_PUMP header at the top of your mobo, nor to the CHA_FAN3/W_PUMP at the bottom. IF you have it plugged in to the wrong header and change it, check in CAM to be sure it still is reading the pump speed correctly. (I'm thinking that, if you move this connection, the CAM software might already be looking at the wrong header and fail to pick up the change.) If CAM no longer "sees" the pump speed, you might have to un-install it and then re-install it so it can find the right speed signal. Note that the CAM software will show this to you correctly as the PUMP speed, even though the BIOS Setup display for your mobo will label this as the CPU Fan speed.
3. I will presume that you have the power cable from the pump plugged into a SATA power output from the PSU (otherwise it would not operate!), and that you have the USB2 cable attached so that CAM can communicate with the Kraken system.

That will ensure that the Kraken system operates as designed. Now, on to the other two fans. The pre-installed fans on that case are the FN V2 models which are of the older 3-pin design. If that type of fan is connected to a mobo CHA_FAN header using the newer PWM Mode to control fans, it can only operate at full speed all the time, which is what you describe.Those two case fans must be connected to a CHA_FAN header that can be configured to use the older DC Mode, and THIS is where I found the "tricky detail" in your mobo manual. See p. 85-86. For both of the CHA_FAN1 and 2 headers there is no mention of this Mode, and I bet that is where those two case fans are plugged in. BUT for the CHA_FAN3/W_PUMP header (and only this header) you CAN set it to use DC Mode. So for this header configure it in BIOS Setup to use the CHA_FAN3/CPU Optional setting (not Water Pump), DC Mode and the standard automatic control curve, then set it to use the common motherboard temperature sensor as its guide (not the sensor inside the CPU). Remember to SAVE and EXIT to save those settings. Now, how to connect those two fans to this single header? Buy a simple fan Splitter. (You may find it hard to get a 3-pin Splitter, but any4-pin Splitter will do the job just fine.) Something like this (4-pin)

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=coboc+fan+splitter&N=-1&isNodeId=1

or this (3-pin)

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812423168&cm_re=coboc_fan_splitter-_-12-423-168-_-Product

Those items are NOT Hubs. Note the difference. The SPLITTER has only two types of "arms": one ends in a female fan connector to plug into the mobo header, and the others end in male connectors where you plug in your fans. A Hub (do NOT get one for this) also has a third arm type that must plug into a power output from the PSU.

If you arrange your two pre-installed case fans' connections this way they WILL be controlled automatically (using DC Mode) by that CHA_FAN3 header and will run more slowly and quietly. There is no need to have them run full speed for extra cooling your mobo does not need.
 

judewilliams22

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Hi thanks well I can control my built in fans now anyway as they came prebuilt and I changed my fans on the radiator still plugged into chassis fan port on mobo currently if found out how to change the speed and cane make it really quiet but im still not getting enough airflow if I drop the fans below performance mode so I think I need better fans ……….
But ill check the fan ports at the back when I can but even if I do this it wont change my pc noise level will it
 

Paperdoc

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Those two rad fans REALLY should be connected to the fan cable from the Kraken X62 Pump unit - that is the ONLY way that the CAM software can control them automatically for you.

My point is that the rad fans (if connected properly) are already quiet but the two case fans are noisy at full speed, and I'm pretty confident that is because they are plugged into the CHA_FAN1 and 2 headers that can NOT do DC Mode for control. If you switch them to the CHA_FAN3 header with a Splitter and configure that header to DC Mode, those fans WILL be slower and quieter.
 

judewilliams22

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I can control them though through dc but if I connect them to the 4 pin connectors from the pump and switch to pwm mode they will be controlled auto by cam depending on my cpu temps and this wont cause any problems I get like around 30 degrees both cpu and gpu just browsing web and stuff
 

Paperdoc

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Which "them" fans are you talking about? What CAM does is control the speed of the fans plugged into the PUMP unit according to the temperature inside the CPU chip. That is, CAM concentrates on keeping the CPU cooled properly. The mobo CHA_FAN headers, on the other hand, control their fans based on a different temperature sensor built into the motherboard, and that is why they should have the CASE vent fans connected to those headers.

What you described above recently was having the rad fans plugged into the CHA_FAN headers that are controlled by the MOTHERBOARD sensor, which is not right. Your most recent post MAY be saying you have tried plugging the 3-pin CASE fans into the cable coming out of the PUMP unit so that CAM con control them. If that really is what you have, you have the two fan groups reversed with respect to which temperature sensor is guiding which fan group.
 
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