[SOLVED] What CPU and other components to build a PC for Virtualization

Nov 14, 2018
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Hi!

I would like to build a PC but I don't know which type of CPU/platform to use.

The platorms are:
A) Intel Z170 socket 1551 platform - Intel 6th gen. CPUs codename: SkyLake
B) Intel Z270 socket 1551 platform - Intel 7th gen. CPUs codename: KabyLake
C) Intel Z370 socket 1551 platforn - Intel 8th gen. CPUs codename: CoffeLake
D) Intel Z390 socket 1551 platform - Intel 9th gen. CPUs codename: CoffeLake -S/ CoffeLake Refresh? that BTW support Intel 8th gen CPUs aswell
I most certainly can’t afford the I9-i9900K and that i7 one.
E) AMD FX (8 core) platform - don't remember what socket AM+ maybe
F) AMD APU/Athlon/... platform -the one before Zen CPUs or even ZEN CPUs
G) AMD Ryzen socket AM4 codename Zen and Zen+ CPUs
H) AMD Ryzen Threadripper socket TR4 codename Zen (the only 2 CPUs I can afford are AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1900X or AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1920X)
I) Intel X... socket 2066 Hight End platform (but the only CPU I can afford is Core i7-7800X)
My budget price limit for CPU is the price of Intel Core i7-8600K (Intel 8gen Coffe Lake).
I have to have some money left for motherboard and RAM and CPU Cooler (Noctua NH-D14 or NH-D15 is the least problem giving, most silent and in top3 most efficent). And perhaps a low-end GFX card in case that the CPU will not have it in itself.
The goal is to have to most responsive, fast PC to do all these things at the same time: run at least ONE session of VirtualBox with a new test version of Windows 10 (2 sessions at max), watch a YT music with sound and video, watch a viceo file clip or movie, have opened 30 Windows with 30 Tabs of internet surfing. I don't do any gaming and my operating system is the latest or at least the 18.3 version of Linux Mint Cinnamon 64bit.
BTW: I have a strong PSU, a good build case, don’t worry

I'm new here so I'm sorry for any inconviniece and my English is bad. Sorry
 

kanewolf

Titan
Moderator
RAM and fast storage is more important than CPU for virtualization. Most of the tasks you list don't fully utilize many cores of a CPU. YouTube is limited by network, Internet surfing is limited by user interaction, test instances of Windows are limited by network and user interaction. You are going to want 2 to 4 VCPUs per VM and 4 to 8 GB RAM. Your physical CPU (including hyperthreading) can be oversubscribed without too much penalty. But if you oversubscribe your RAM you pay a huge performance penalty.
 
Nov 14, 2018
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As this is my first time on this forum and Your's reply is the first ever I get I must say I'm shocked. You hit the nail on the head using a very few sentences. I will like awoken.
1). Oversubscribing the logical CPUs makes the VM run slower but not as much as oversubscribing the amount of RAM cause it would lead to swap RAM production and that process is very slow even on top SSDs. Did I understad it?
2) Based on what You have gracesisly told me I would need just a CPU with proper amount of cores/threads and from which plaftform they come is not important as my tasks are not CPU speed/features demanding. Did I understand it?
3). So summing all up I would be best suited with a minimum of 4 logical CPUs if running one VM, 6 logical CPUs if running two VMs at the same time - That's the minimal case. In the extended case (4 logical CPUs per VM) I would need a minimum of 6 logiclal CPUs if running one VM, 8 logical CPUs if running two VMs at the same time. Did I understand it correctly?
4). How does a pair of physical cores vs. a physical core + corsesponding to it thread affect performance. Both are 2 logical core CPUs right? Of course the first case should be better but is the second case even noticeable? (a combo of 1 core and 1 thread)
5). The presented above case especialy while running 2 VMs at the same time makes the host system and both of the VMs work not so fast right? As it is the minimal config if I understood You correcty?
6). The optimal speed while doing all 3 tasks at once (net/yt/movie in host and 2 VMs at the same time) will be gained by adding to each of the 3 tasks a 2 logical core? So, from 8 logical cores we come to 16 logical cores. It that case I would need a 6core/12threads CPU right?
 

kanewolf

Titan
Moderator
I don't usually recommend configs because it is too much "You can do it cheaper with X instead of Y" ...

Hyperthreading is a virtualization at the CPU level. It can hold the context of two threads for each physical core and switch between them as fast as possible.

VCPUs do not directly correlate to physical resources. Lets say you have 4 VMs and each are assigned 4 VCPUs == 16 total VCPUs. If each of those VCPUs is not 100% busy all the time they may be able to be handled by 6 physical cores. There are rule of thumb guides on CPU oversubscription.
Here is an example for VMWARE but it is generally applicable -- https://virtualizationreview.com/~/media/ECG/Tech%20Library%202013/04/DELL%20VKERNEL%20APRIL/Dell%20%20%20Best%20Practices%20for%20Oversubscription%20of%20CPU%20%20Memory%20and%20Storage%20in%20vSphere%20Virtual%20Environments_0.ashx

If it was me, I would do a Ryzen 2600 (12 threads) with a B450 motherboard, a matched set of 2x16GB RAM with an inexpensive graphics card a 1TB M.2 SSD with a 4TB HDD.
 
Nov 14, 2018
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Thank You sir for another outstanding reply.
1). I was searching for a 16 thread CPU, the cheapest Intel i've got was i7-8700K or a magical i7-8086K Limited Edition - it got me mezmorized with it's 5 GHz trubo :) But the price of both of them is a tough pill to swallow. So I searched for a good Ryzen and found AMD Ryzen 7 2600X with 12 threads but I said to myself what the hell I can go for AMD Ryzen 7 2700X alsow with 16 threads. BTW Why people don't recommend the X versions? I would eventually overclock that thing using a CPU air cooler similar to Noctua NH-D14.
2). I was trying to select a best chipset AMD motherboard. Turns out its x470 with two M.2 slots to put there two Samsung 970 EVO M.2 PCI-E 3.0 4x SSD NVMe in raid mode and make it bootable.
3). As for storage it so happens that I dont need any more than this 500GB.
4). I've heard that there is a very good certified RAM for Ryzen from QVL - designed for AMD : G.Skill Trident Z RGB DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 3200 CL16 (I would start with 16GB but You are right that it should be 32 right out of the shoe
5). I would buy a passive PICIexpress 16x card with HDMI and DVI output.
6) I have absolutley no need for HDD as I have a lot of them and I dont play any sort of PC or mobile games.
7). Please be so kind sir and forgive me for doing the thing thay You dont like but try to fill in my shoeas as I learned that first only these RAMs are specielly designed for Ryzen second they must be clocked around 3000MHz cause matchign Ryzen with 2333MHz in coompare to 3000/3200 would make me suffer a 10% loss of CPU performance.
8). If You would be so kind (maybe not today) to explain to me this rule of thumb cause my English is bad and I simply dont get it.

Once again forgive me and please be so kind to tell me to do that thing that you dont like (x instead of y) and I will humbly get that into my head. Please notice that I am not agressive but very lucky that I found You- a Person who knows how to explain to a noob in minimum senteces a complex problem. You're knowledge is amazing! So once again please tell me what and why should I correct in my scouting. BTW I have an excellent PSU ready to take on the Ryzen challange. Accualy I have two great PSUs if needed.
 

kanewolf

Titan
Moderator
I would never recommend using M.2 RAID. Just too easy to mess up and lose everything. You don't really benefit. If you believe 500GB is enough then OK, but I don't believe it. You need to have space for file systems for the VMs and space for bootable images. I also disagree with the need for HDD. It is what you use to make backups if nothing else ... You DO have a backup plan don't you??? I thought not ...

You won't see significant differences in performance with your use-cases buying high clock RAM. Get some 2400 RAM. Not the slowest, not the fastest. But has a better price point.

Why don't you see recommendations for the "X" Ryzen? The performance increase doesn't justify the price, is my best guess. But, again, for your use cases you don't need the highest performance. You need STABILITY.
 
Nov 14, 2018
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1) THANK You for replying.
2) WOW, I never thought that M.2 RAID would be so dangerous. But that PC will be strictly to this Winodws check so I can afford to loose data. Does it mean that I can nwo do RAID0 on them?
3) I have a 4TB HDD lying around somplace.
4).But shall I put as much into 970 EVO M.2 PCIE 3.0 x4 SSD? Will I notice a change during bootup and and other things betwear that M.2 Samsung and a reglar SATA 860 Samsung SSD?
5). How should I balance these 2400 RAM with CL? I notice the higher the MHz the higher the CL.... What Would be the perfect point?
6). You were absolutley right about the need of 32 GB minimum (what was I thinking?)
7) Based on the 5 and 6 can you reccomend me a RAM product that would be good in Your opinon??
8) I would love to have a reccomendation for the GFX card (full PCIE slot or not, for example) Linux Mint likes nvidia or Radeon better?
9) Finally the recommednation for cooler that can hold on to OC. But I hear for non IC the stock CPU cooler is ok.
 

kanewolf

Titan
Moderator
You won't benefit from RAID 0 with M.2 It may benchmark faster, but it has no practical benefit.

Your questions 4, 5, 8, 9 are EXACTLY why I said I don't generally recommend systems. I don't just search for "the best" anything. There is no such thing. It is subjective.

I already recommended a B450 motherboard, but you went to the X470. Why, because you want to overclock. Which won't provide any benefit for the uses you listed. ABSOLUTE performance is useless without stability. I build systems that are stable. You are talking to the wrong person for overclocking or absolute performance.

I have given you general information. If you actually want to learn anything from this, take the general information, make choices on your own. Then document your justifications for your decisions. Do those justifications make sense with what your are trying to accomplish? Then execute your choices. Live with the consequences. That is life.
 
Nov 14, 2018
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Do You see? It is good to talk. Cause now I know that I will gain nothing by doing OC the CPU in my situration and I will change my seatch o B450 and for that a huge thank You.
You have proven me sir that You are the righr Person to talk to. I've been here for hoours and I learns so much already ecept the thumb rule which I can't get it from the .pdf. If You would be so nice and explain it to me.
I think if I'm not going to OC that I wont need a replacment cooler cause I read that these ones in Ryzens are pretty good.
I think my uncle already bought me that M.2 SSD for Christmas because I was telling everybody abou that for a year or so.. If that happens I will put ONE M.2 as a boot drive.
I must wach for the placmetnt of GFX card tho cause that may interrupt the ONE M2. boot up. But I think a solution for that problem would be quite easy - changeing the slots of GFX and/or the M.2.

------------------- if all the above fails due to no money problem --------------------------

I would have the money to buy a I7-7700K CPU

My build is: skylake i3 2c/4t 3.6GHz CPU, 16 GB RAM 2333MHz, Z170 MOBO with a one slot for that M.2 thing.
Would it be good to change 2c/4t into 4c/8t by buing that i7 CPU inf your opinion. My skylake platform supports kaby lake CPUs cause I updated the BIOS for that.
What Do You think sir?
 
Nov 14, 2018
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WOW, dude, thanks for that. How about regular STAT3 SSDs 2,5 inch ?
 
Nov 14, 2018
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I would have the money to buy a I7-7700K CPU or other 4physical core

My build is: skylake i3 2c/4t 3.6GHz CPU, 16 GB RAM 2333MHz, Z170 MOBO with a one slot for that M.2 thing.
Would it be good to change 2c/4t into 4c/8t by buing that i7 CPU inf your opinion. My skylake platform supports kaby lake CPUs cause I updated the BIOS for that.
What Do You think sir?
 
Nov 14, 2018
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Thanks and this solution:

Cause now I know that I will gain nothing by doing OC the CPU in my situration and I will change my seatch o B450 and for that a huge thank You.
You have proven me sir that You are the righr Person to talk to. I've been here for hoours and I learns so much already ecept the thumb rule which I can't get it from the .pdf. If You would be so nice and explain it to me.
I think if I'm not going to OC that I wont need a replacment cooler cause I read that these ones in Ryzens are pretty good.
I think my uncle already bought me that M.2 SSD for Christmas because I was telling everybody abou that for a year or so.. If that happens I will put ONE M.2 as a boot drive.
I must wach for the placmetnt of GFX card tho cause that may interrupt the ONE M2. boot up. But I think a solution for that problem would be quite easy - changeing the slots of GFX and/or the M.2.