CPU delidding help.

clyde777

Proper
Oct 8, 2018
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I am about to delid my cpu to apply liquid metal. I have all the correct tools but I dont want to reglue the ihs so I am gonna leave it free and let the socket and cooler hold it in place. My question is since I am not resealing it do I need to scrape off the old silcon or can I just clean the die, replace with liquid metal and put the ihs on top and put it in my pc. Little nervous since this is my first time doing this.
 
Solution
There are 4 goals to accomplish for a successful delid:

(1) Replace Intel's TIM with liquid metal.
(2) Eliminate any space between the IHS and the Die.
(3) Ensure that the IHS does not move once it's placed on the Die.
(4) Decrease the temperature differences between Cores.

First; you must completely clean all traces of the old sealant from the substrate (green PCB) and the IHS. The original temperature problem is not only caused by poor thermal conductivity of Intel's TIM, but it's also due to the sealant being slightly too thick, which creates space between the IHS and the Die. The greater the space, the thicker the TIM and the higher the Core temperatures.

Second; when both surfaces are completely clean, as...

CompuTronix

Intel Master
Moderator
There are 4 goals to accomplish for a successful delid:

(1) Replace Intel's TIM with liquid metal.
(2) Eliminate any space between the IHS and the Die.
(3) Ensure that the IHS does not move once it's placed on the Die.
(4) Decrease the temperature differences between Cores.

First; you must completely clean all traces of the old sealant from the substrate (green PCB) and the IHS. The original temperature problem is not only caused by poor thermal conductivity of Intel's TIM, but it's also due to the sealant being slightly too thick, which creates space between the IHS and the Die. The greater the space, the thicker the TIM and the higher the Core temperatures.

Second; when both surfaces are completely clean, as a visual test, you can place the IHS on the Die, where you'll notice that when viewed from the side, the IHS does not sit on the substrate; it instead sits directly on the Die. You'll also notice that there's a space of only 100 to 200 microns between the IHS and the substrate. This verifies that there is NO space between the IHS and the Die, which is exactly what you're trying to achieve. If the old sealant is not completely removed, you may end up with an imperfect delid job where you still have space between the IHS and the Die, with perhaps one end being higher than the other causing uneven Core temperatures.

Third; from the instant the IHS makes contact with the Die, the IHS must NOT be allowed to move or rotate in any way. This ensures that the liquid metal does not "smear" which can create voids or imperfection in an otherwise perfect application. Smearing the liquid metal will cause Core temperatures to be higher than if the IHS never moved. Moreover, when latching down the socket clamping lever, it's very difficult to keep an unsecured IHS from moving.

Fourth; smeared liquid metal can create poor thermal conductivity between the Die and the IHS in certain locations on the Die, which can cause exceedingly uneven temperatures between Cores. Intel's specification for DTS (Digital Thermal Sensor) accuracy is + / - 5°C. So, when all Cores are under a steady 100% workload, temperature differences between the highest and lowest Cores should not exceed 10°C.

Therefore, in order to avoid defeating the purposes of delidding, and to assure the best possible outcome, it's critical that the IHS does NOT move from the moment it contacts the Die to when it's securely clamped into the socket. So yes, the IHS must be sealed. A bead of sealant under the corners of the IHS and under the clamping rails on the sides of the IHS is adequate. It's also important that you allow ample time for the sealant to completely dry before clamping the processor into the socket.

If the job is done well, you can expect a decrease in Core temperatures of about 16 to 20°C at 100% workload.

CT :sol:
 
Solution

CompuTronix

Intel Master
Moderator
I've delidded all my builds since Intel stopped using Indium solder and began using TIM in 3rd Generation Ivy Bridge processors. Results have always averaged 18 to 20°C. The key to a good delidding job is using the proper tools, strong lighting, patience, and especially attention to detail.

Gamers Nexus produces some very good YouTube's, but isn't always thorough enough, doesn't set the best examples or provide the best advice. The most complete and accurate delidding information comes from der8auer, with whom Gamers Nexus collaborates for his expertise and delidding advice.

CT :sol:
 

carbide

Honorable
Oct 29, 2013
82
0
10,640
sorry to jump on this thread, but I'm in the same boat, well, I've delidded, and what was great, well, exactly the same temps as before the delid, now seem to be greater. my rock solid overclock now results in crashes trying a cinebench run, and temps hitting 90.

I fear, by not resealing, I did have IHS/die movement whilst socketing the cpu, and after reading your guidance CT, this may be my issue.

I'll get to reapplying as soon as to avoid hotspots causing any damage, and reseal this time - the fact that the die and IHS will now be in contact, should I be more careful with cooler clamp down force?! I've previously been clamping the H100i waterblock down pretty tight to ensure as good a pump out of TIM but I'm concerned now I may do damage...
 
The biggest problem with liquid metal....its liquid. Its very easy to spread that if you don't reseal.

I'll tell you what made it much easier for me. Put the CPU in the socket without the IHS. Spread the liquid metal then place the IHS on exactly as you want it to be and clamp it down.
 

carbide

Honorable
Oct 29, 2013
82
0
10,640
I just wanted to add to this thread in case anyone finds it in the future...

My delid method was totally fine. I watched these two video over and over, until I had some confidence in what I was doing:

https://youtu.be/w9i_ULemBhI
https://youtu.be/Vp-NY5x7ymg

I didn't reseal though, as I was concerned I might balls it up and keep to need reapplying. The issue, as Computronix has mentioned before however, is that no matter how careful you are, literally, if you put the IHS on once the cpu is in the socket - it's now floating on top of the LM on top of the die. It will move, or roll on the die surface when you pull the clamp down - even if you are sure it didn't move in the x/y - because (for my haswell 4790k anyway) the IHS is slightly concave, so, the underside face meeting the die is convex. My mic was flat battery so tried to use calipers but couldn't get a meaningful measurement but, from top to bottom (when looking at the CPU with the little arrow pointing to 7 o'clock) the IHS was concave - the centre was like, ~10μm lower than the edges. Oddly it was perfectly flat from left to right.

Anyway, you might get away without sealing, and get good temps, but its just luck of the draw. I cleaned off all the intel sealant and resealed by using a dot in each corner, and a dot under each of the two pressure spreaders that get latched down onto.

I used an RTV silicone sealant, make sure it is Alcoxy not Acetoxy based. The former is completely neutral during the curing process with copper, alloys of, most metals. The latter, is the standard, cheaper brand stuff you'll find at a hardware store for sealing the bath. The Alcoxy based sealants smell nice, almost sweet, the Acetoxy ones smell strongly of vinegar - despite the fact you shouldn't be applying so much it gets onto the pcb contacts, avoid it.

I used the der8auer delid die mate 2 which comes with a positioning tool and re sealing clamp, allowing you to clamp the IHS down to the die face thus spreadding the silicone down to where it needs to be before curing, so you know it will never be altering the contact distance between the die/IHS.

Additionally, nitrocellulose base nail polish for protecting the SMDs - I had a hard time finding the right stuff. Turns out, when everyone says 'nail polish' they actually mean 'top coat' the top, protecting layer. Maybe it's just a UK/US thing but I couldn't find any clear nail polish, I assume this is because the polish is the colour, the top coat is the, well, namesake...

Gamers Nexus used: Sally Hansen Color Therapy Top Coat which you can get in either the US/UK for about £9 and it is Nitrocellulose based and contains no benzene derivates like Toluene.
https://www.sallyhansen.com/uk/nail-care/color-therapy-top-coat