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PC vs. CONSOLE WAR: PC's are LOSING.

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August 8, 2008 3:58:41 PM

These days there something that worries me a great deal. The articles I read on various websites about how PC gaming is slowly dying. Or how when I walk into a Best Buy, or EB Games, or any other electronic outlet there is a huge decrease in available options for purchase when it comes to software and PC accessories.

So I will get right into it then. Have any of you realized the lack of support for PC products as I have? It seems everywhere I go now the PC sections are getting smaller and smaller. When I walk into EB games or other similar shops they tell me now that they are phasing out PC games and that their entire PC inventory is on sale for discounted prices. I go to Wal-Mart and what used to be a two section isle has been converted into a 5 ft long shelf with 15-20 titles to choose from( unfortunately all priced wrong, and with the wrong stickers attached to the shelving units as is Wal-Mart’s standard operating procedure). I go to Target and find what used to be a sizeable selection of recent PC software and gaming titles reduced to almost nothing but again a 5 foot long shelf.

I used to have one good standby, COMPUSA which always had an excellent selection of PC Software, now out-of -business. Circuit city used to be pretty good, they to are now removing their PC Software inventory and everything is currently being marked down, and the best part, they are on their way out the door too, trying to sell out.

So with all the vendors and retailers removing PC stock(including performance parts and hardware) from their shelves where does this leave all of us?? Sure you can say the internet!! But that doesn’t help you when even most of our larger sites our trimming down their offerings as well. And what about the excitement you get when you get to pick up the box look at the graphics and read the titles description. There is a tangible sense of value when you are holding the box in your hands. All of this leaves me with a huge sense of worry. I know this must be disheartening for software programmers and game design firms out there trying to make a living.

I honestly have been a PC gamer almost my entire life, I used to play the first Wolfenstein and Doom games when they were on little floppy disk's. I have been playing Blizzards' games since the first Warcraft, and Unreal since it's first version. Command and Conquer when it looked like little green squares driving around in the snow
( those were tanks) and Wing Commander too. The first Mech Warrior games. I have played them all. I also collect the boxes and keep all of my games in their original boxes. I currently have 80 mint condition game boxes. I never pirated any of the games I have played, and I think pirating sucks. I believe pirated software is the number one reason why PC gaming is going the way of the dinosaurs.

My biggest concern comes however from the hardware side of the matter, as Nvidia and ATi are at war with each other trying to build the greatest graphics cards known to man, and many of us are willingly buying them, and stacking our computers with 4+ GB of ram, and quad processors and extreme cooling systems all to be able to play the newest games at the most maxed out graphics options. Many of know that our PC's are often times 5-10 times faster than even the PS3. It's actual graphics solution is based off of the Nvidia 7800 series GPU. Take (2) GTX280's and you could easily be 10 X faster on any current game on the market compared to the PS3.

But what happens to all of us if PC gaming DIES?? All of our hard earned money and time spent configuring and building the best machines our money can buy will be wasted. Where will our hobby go? Where will the desire to make an awesome gaming system come from, ...it wont. That’s just it, if PC gaming dies, there are many other markets soon to follow. The graphcis card market would crash for anything really above mid-level or entry level net surfing purpose GPU's and would revert back to integrated chips. High performance motherboard manufacturers would suffer, as would high end audio card makers. Many of the LCD manufacturers would see huge drops in revenue on anything larger than 1280X1024 screen sizes. Literally if PC gaming goes, the entire performance market would soon crash down as there would no longer be the demand from consumers for such high end components.

Recent articles involving the makers of Crysis, Titan's Quest, and now even John Carmack and ID software express they are switching their focus to consoles primarily because PC games just aren’t selling anymore. THE makers of Grand Theft Auto 4 and Mass Effect were within a hairs thickness of not releasing their games for PC this time around until the PC Enthusiasts spoke up. Console sales and gaming is wiping the floor with PC's and all the evidence supports this. But what about those of us who really dont like consoles, are we just a niche market now? I have a PS3 and honestly the only games I play are Need for Speed Carbon and Fight Night Round 3, I play PS2 games on my PS3 right now more than anything else in the PS3 library. Don't get me wrong I have 10 PS3 games, but problem is once you play through em thats it. They dont have the replay value that PC games have and dont require as much skill.

The point of my writing is to express grave concern for the PC gaming market, and to bring to light the fact that if you are "Pirating" software, you need to wake up and realize that you are killing your own favorite hobby. Many of us love our machines that we have worked for and built, and many of us use them everyday for gaming, internet, movies, and various other uses. But people if we cant bring the focus back to where it all began, (with PC's) then the Console vs. PC wars are lost, and so is our beloved past time that separates so many of us from the casual console gamer. Don't let it happen.

PAY for your games, respect the designers and programmers, who have devoted their lives to making you awesome entertainment, and start showing these development firms that the PC is still alive and kicking.

More about : console war losing

August 8, 2008 4:29:45 PM

PC gaming is not so much a victim of piracy as it is a victim of the console phenomenon.

Consoles now are like SUVs in the late 80's early 90's - high volume, incredible profit margins. Everybody seems to have one and those who don't wan't one.

A huge issue that haunts PC gaming: It's become socially acceptable for adults to game on consoles. I visited my parents a few weeks ago for the first time in a few months and went to some gatherings of old friends who still live in my old hometown.

Guess what - Every single one had a console out for people to game on. We used to play Tiger Woods golf and EA spots NHL on the PS2 before we went out to bars, but only amongst ourselves. It was nothing like this.

To compete with console today PC makers would have to release fully loaded PCs with top of the line hardware for $400. AND find a way to compete with this new social acceptance of console gaming for adults. I don't see that happening.

It's a tidal wave.
August 8, 2008 4:32:26 PM

This is basically just a rehashing of some 10 billion other post on the same topics. PC gaming isn't going anywhere. Theres always room for improvement but I can't imagine that any time in which there will be PCs but no PC games.
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August 8, 2008 5:04:27 PM

A couple of thoughts:

1) There probably are too many threads on this topic.

2) I love PC gaming. It's been my #1 hobby for a LONG time.

3) Anyone who loves PC gaming and thinks that there's no cause for concern is fooling themselves. That type of thought is on par with "the US has always been dominant and will continue to be by default" (not in importance but in level of denial).

4) The "release AAA title on console/ release it 9-12 months (or more) later on PC" cycle makes my blood boil. But - we have no choice but to get used to it.

5) Pircay IS a problem. But it pales in comparison to the amount of money that can be made on consoles nowadays.
August 8, 2008 6:03:13 PM

You will just have to get used to the fact that more and more PC games are going to be distributed digitally. I am like you and used to love looking at the Sunday ads and going to BB and CC, but now I have migrated to looking at Newegg specials. Its just change and change is a part of life.
August 8, 2008 6:03:32 PM

What you and many others are getting confused about is simply that the PC game retail presence is no longer what it used to be. The tech savvy gaming crowd are often PC gamers. Tech savvy individuals are also more likely to do their purchasing online and possibly over steam or Impulse. Steam and Impulse do not publish their sales numbers.

Valve has actually stated in no uncertain terms that PC gaming is not doing badly, in fact they are seeing sales that beat any individual console handily. It is just that a lot of executives are paying more attention to third party numbers like NPD and such and not to the sales numbers they get internally.

PC gaming is doing great. Just some game companies are run by idiots. That is no real surprise.

PC games are losing their retail presence but their online presence is a true force to be reckoned with.

Lighten up on the doomsaying.
August 8, 2008 6:14:03 PM

Quote:
am like you and used to love looking at the Sunday ads and going to BB and CC


Quote:
Tech savvy individuals are also more likely to do their purchasing online and possibly over steam or Impulse.


I don't even bother checking the weekly ads for games any more. Every day when I boot up my PC steam opens up and I get to see their new releases. If not there I'll check other digital distribution sites to see what I can get. And the half hour or so download time is a lot better than driving half an hour to Best Buy or Wal Mart and having to waste gas.
August 8, 2008 7:22:47 PM

I'm a little confused. Did you create the same exact thread in multiple sections?
August 8, 2008 7:25:58 PM

Just going to copy paste from the identical thread in the other section..

Quote:
sh**** games kill the industry.

That being said there's about a half dozen PC games i'll be purchasing in the next 3 months alone (can't remember what's coming end of nov-dec). And alot more coming from Valve (tf2 updates, hl2 ep3, p2 etc) and Blizzard in the next year or two.

It's never looked better. The cream of the crop!
August 8, 2008 7:55:52 PM

There are some great games on the horizon and some phenomenal games not far behind us. Anyone who seriously complains about the quality of games coming out right now is an idiot. 2007 was possibly the best year for gamers ever, 2008 is shaping up to not be a slouch either.
August 8, 2008 8:08:47 PM

2008 started a little slow, but that just gave me time to grab all the games from 2007 that I hadn't had time for (Orange Box). Right now I'm trying to prioritize which of the upcoming titles I'll grab first and which to wait for. In no particular order heres some games I'm looking forward to in the next few months:
Crysis Warhead
Spore
Starcraft 2
Civilization: Colonization
GTA4
COD5
Left 4 Dead
WoW WotLK
August 8, 2008 8:50:11 PM

And people say PC gaming is in a slump...

August 8, 2008 9:04:55 PM

At first I thought that blue seal was some sort of lame award- "E3 - Best Reality Show Based Game" - WOW even better than Deadliest Catch The Game!!! But looking closer I think it says there's a recipe included with the game. I'm not sure which would be worse.
August 8, 2008 11:49:35 PM

I actually made a list for myself yesterday of the games I might be interested in coming out till the end of the year. I'll post them here to give you an idea:

Space Siege
STALKER Clear Sky
Mercenaries 2: World in Flames
Spore
Legendary
The Witcher Enhanced Edition
Crysis Warhead
Pure
Rise of the Argonauts
Brother in Arms Hell's Highway
Project Origin
Sacred 2 Fallen Angel
Fallout 3
Saints Row 2
Far Cry 2
Dead Space
James Bond Quantom of Solace
Left 4 Dead
Lord of the Rings Conquest
Mirror's Edge
Grand Theft Auto 4
Tomb Raider Underworld
Damnation

Games coming sometime next year or the year after:

Dragon Age
Prince of Persia
Red Alert 3
Stacraft 2
Diablo 3

Rage
Doom 4
Street Fighter 4
Bionic Commando
Bionic Commando Rearmed
Dark Void
Bioshock 2
Prototype
The Last Remnant
Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War II
Half-Life 2: Episode 3
Half-Life 3 (?)
Call of Duty World at War
Call of Duty 5 (?)
Project Offset

Games not yet announced for PC, but most likely will be eventually:

Fable 2
Gears of War 2
Resident Evil 5

Bolded game = exclusive.

Bottom line: PC gaming the way I see it is far, far, far from going away anytime soon. Not only are there at least TWENTY TWO titles coming out on the PC platform this last quarter, but FIVE of them are exclusives (or at least temporary exclusives, because let's face it: exclusivity is not good business on any platform these days for any developer/publisher).

PC gaming is not going anywhere. :) 

August 9, 2008 2:07:59 PM

xbox 360 runing life? 2010 to 2011 come back and Compare games in 2010
August 9, 2008 5:29:26 PM

well one game i would i am looking forward to is Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X, ive been looking for a Combat flight game with awesome graphics for ages, and this looks up for the job
August 9, 2008 6:35:55 PM

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2277507,00.a...

"And the shame is, if the low end of the PC market, the mass market PCs that everybody buys did not come with these crappy graphics chips on them and was not burdened with a fat OS, that the PC would be a larger contiguous gaming platform than all the next-generation consoles combined, probably would be clearly superior; the PC is the home of the most profitable game in history generating more revenue than the top 10 console games combined--that's World of Warcraft generating a 1.2 billion dollars a year in revenue, that's a pure PC game. "


trackman2010 said:
Pure


damn im glad that they are releasing it on PC....it would be stupid not to...oh and dont forget the NEW CoD game in 2009(not talking about World at War).

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/08/02/an-altogether-new-cal...
of course it will be on PC definitely(not confirmed)but with the 10+ millions copies sold(CoD4) already i think its safe to say that it will be a PC game as well as console.
August 9, 2008 9:17:49 PM

I'm sure the next gen of consoles will all have limited (translation - piracy proof) PC features - which will allow them to run games like WoW.
August 9, 2008 11:26:43 PM

Nothing is hacker/pirate proof, its just a matter of time
August 10, 2008 12:00:44 AM

Blizzard is an example of a company that knows how to make money in the PC market.

No its not easy you have allot of factors to deal with, piracy I am not so sure is the main one... (yeah you will have 20-30K downloads of a popular to pirate game but in the end thats really not that many more sales.)
I think one of the bigger issues affecting PC gaming is that most people really do not understand what they have in the PC sitting in front of them...
One key to blizzards success they make games that work on 90% of the PC's made in the last 2 years.

It always amazes me when some one says "Oh I have 3Ghz" when I ask them how much RAM they have or what video card they are using or what CPU they have... I think Intel's marketing machine may have been TOO successful from the P4 days.

Anyway this goes back to the piracy issue as well. If you think more then 1% of computer users are able to replace an .EXE file with a cracked one (of the correct version) then you have far far more faith in users then most people who deal with users on a day to day basis so blaming pirates for poor game sales is like saying shoplifters are responsible for poor SUV sales...

Edit: Another thought is that the users who are able to replace a few files in an install are also the users who are able to tell you what they have in there PC since they probably built it in the first place. So when you target a small % of the market with games that require DX10 and DX10 hardware Call of Juarez anyone ? Throw in some piracy and you have sales that just plain suck even if the game is really good.
August 10, 2008 5:40:22 AM

trackman2010 said:
I actually made a list for myself yesterday of the games I might be interested in coming out till the end of the year. I'll post them here to give you an idea:

Space Siege
STALKER Clear Sky
Mercenaries 2: World in Flames
Spore
Legendary
The Witcher Enhanced Edition
Crysis Warhead
Pure
Rise of the Argonauts
Brother in Arms Hell's Highway
Project Origin
Sacred 2 Fallen Angel
Fallout 3
Saints Row 2
Far Cry 2
Dead Space
James Bond Quantom of Solace
Left 4 Dead
Lord of the Rings Conquest
Mirror's Edge
Grand Theft Auto 4
Tomb Raider Underworld
Damnation

Games coming sometime next year or the year after:

Dragon Age
Prince of Persia
Red Alert 3
Stacraft 2
Diablo 3

Rage
Doom 4
Street Fighter 4
Bionic Commando
Bionic Commando Rearmed
Dark Void
Bioshock 2
Prototype
The Last Remnant

Games not yet announced for PC, but most likely will be eventually:

Fable 2
Gears of War 2
Resident Evil 5

Bolded game = exclusive.

Bottom line: PC gaming the way I see it is far, far, far from going away anytime soon. Not only are there at least TWENTY TWO titles coming out on the PC platform this last quarter, but FIVE of them are exclusives (or at least temporary exclusives, because let's face it: exclusivity is not good business on any platform these days for any developer/publisher).

PC gaming is not going anywhere. :) 


You forgot HL2 EP3 and possibly HL3 :p 

Either way PC gaming tends to cater to the more well sophistcated crowd. Those who like quality over quantity and also the mod community is HUGE!!!!!

Consoles are great for what they do but they have so many crap titles where as most PC games are normally great games. PC gaming will be around even without the support of retail stores due to things such as Steam that offer digital distributions. Of course Steam is the best one with the EA one being complete crap as it doesn't save the games you buy for more than 6 months so if you lose your install after 6 months you have to repay to get it where as Steam keeps it with your username.

I just noticed but Doom 4 is not a PC exclusive? Its sad to see ID soft going that route when they got their begining and their fame from PC gamers. Sad really.
August 10, 2008 9:21:00 AM

Quote:
You forgot HL2 EP3 and possibly HL3 :p 


You're right! :sweat: 
How could I forget HL? I'll add them to the list.

There is another game called Project Offset being developed by a team of 16 people if anyone's heard of it.
Check it out because it looks fantastic so far.
Supposedly, it's going to be a PC exclusive since they were bought out by Intel, and I've been hearing from people that the game will launch simultaneously with Intel's Larrabee.

Quote:
of course it will be on PC definitely(not confirmed)but with the 10+ millions copies sold(CoD4) already i think its safe to say that it will be a PC game as well as console.

Added both World at War and the following CoD.
August 10, 2008 9:47:26 AM

Scare mongering doom merchants.

It can't be denied consoles are selling in their millions but consoles aren't taking anything away from the PC, the console growth is all organic (i.e. growing from a fresh markets and not replacing another). There is still a lot of money to be made on the PC, the makers of World Of Warcraft for example probably make more money every year then any other developer in the world.

I%u2019m a believer that if you make a good game it will make you money piracy or no piracy. The success of games like Sins of The Solar Empire suggests to me that the future of PC games will be targeted at an older audience, an audience which is less inclined to pirate a game (as with the of Solar Empire), which for me personally is a good thing.

Whilst the PC may be pushed into a smaller market share the number of PC gamers has actually grown across the world, just because a few stores in the US are giving up more space for console games doesn%u2019t mean dick. There%u2019s a world outside of America you know and the rest of world enjoys it%u2019s PC games especially in Europe.

The future of PC games IMO is this

- Newer games targeting older audiences
- Online distribution models to replace traditional box sales
- More Episode gaming
- Causal gaming will be the biggest genre in the market
- MMORPG%u2019S (sadly)
August 10, 2008 8:29:21 PM

"f you are "Pirating" software, you need to wake up and realize that you are killing your own favorite hobby."

1) Define Pirating software.

2) Prove your assertion as you sound uninformed.
August 10, 2008 9:21:37 PM

Dragoncyber's right about the dry-up of PC entertainment software shelf real estate... But really, apart from not being able to enjoy the "tactile" joy of opening a box and the "aesthetic" pleasure of owning a shelf full of colorfully painted cardboard and plastic--sensations to which I am no stranger, am absolutely fond of, immensely appreciate, and understand--in the most open frankness I can muster: there's simply no SERIOUS draw for retail shopping for PC games any longer. [NOTE: This critique makes the assumption that most dedicated PC gamers are also system builders--or at least familiar enough with their systems to make basic upgrades and savvy enough to do a little research before sinking cash into parts and software]

First off, honestly, I can't remember the last time I, or any of my PC gaming friends for that matter, purchased a game at a mall operation or small-chain brick-and-mortar game store like Electronics Boutique or GameStop--most of those places have been overchargin' for PC games since their respective beginnings. The only REAL "benefit" of such stores has always been the various"trade-in-your-old-game-for-store-credit" policies, which have forever been lopsided con schemes with little value to the consumer: Not that such policies were ever a boon for PC gamers anyway; since the so-called benefit of the "trade-in" arrangements were typically denied to PC gamers because of "piracy" concerns. So, if such outlets cease sellin' PC games, I know few who'll shed a tear.

In addition, Walmart's gaming selection in general has been poor for eons--especially in terms of its inventory of Mature Rated games (although I did grab San Andreas there for $10 a few weeks back heh heh). And, apart from a generally lousy inventory across platforms, their add-in cards and PC peripherals are generations old (PCI GEFORCE FX 5500s?!?), laughably sub-par, or embarrassingly overpriced ($220 HD3870s?!?) , so few dedicated PC gamers with their fingers on the pulse of the industry ever shop there anyway--if Walmart leaves the PC gaming market, good riddance, says I...

Further, losing Circuit City might hurt... except that Best Buy pretty much eclipsed them as a destination for retail PC game purchases probably 7 years ago, for me and most of my compadres... That aside, though, think about it-- What was it that made stores like Circuit City, CompUSA and Best Buy such great places to shop for games in the late 90s and at the opening of the 21st century?? In the Silver Age of PC Gaming, those stores offered the shopper a chance to oogle the latest video cards, dribble over Creative Labs' newest add-in, or grab some memory sticks for an on-the-fly upgrade; and, while one-stop-shopping for home desktop upgrades, a quick meander into the PC game aisle made for a convenient chance to glut on reasonably priced software...But, c'mon-- what dedicated gamer still buys PC parts and components at CompUSA, Best Buy or Circuit City anymore??? My gods--the stores are for complete tools these days! No Joke- I saw an x800xt priced ON CLEARANCE at a Best Buy for nearly $300 just a few months ago!! Circuit City still has GeForce 8600 GTSs priced higher than Radeon 4850s as they, no doubt, try to cover their losses by gouging the utterly uninformed. The ONLY reason to buy PC components in one of these joints is if one happens to run one of those ridiculous rebate offers so spectacular that it can't possibly be passed up... or if there's one of those two for one DDR3 Specials advertised that bests the lowest price to be found on Pricewatch.com (which is incredibly incredibly rare)... So why go to those stores? Lately, I've only bought PC games at Circuit City when they've been discounted all to naught (Can't beat Silent Hill 3 for $2.99)

Yeah, I do love the open-box-experience-- so, I'll scoop up a DMC4, Bioshock, Mass Effect, or Crysis at Best Buy and pay full retail price and love every minute of holding that shiny shrinkwrapped box... but truth be told- I only got Mass Effect and DMC4 'cause neither was available on Steam (and I thought it would be since DMC3 is) and on the day that Bioshock dropped for PC, I just happened to be in a Best Buy (and after that SecureRom fiasco, I wished I HAD purchased it on Steam)... why was I even in Best Buy in the first place? My girlfriend wanted a hard to find Jack Johnson CD and if you can't find a music CD in Best Buy, it probably doesn't exist...
August 11, 2008 1:47:03 AM

i will always be a pc gamer, and i will, more than likely, never buy another console (i stopped after the N64).

I tend to think that CONSOLES are moving more and more in the direction of PCs in the sense that they are becoming PCs themselves. The only thing you used to be able to do on a console was play the game, but now you can do many more things (control settings on the tv, chat, online game). I am not sure about everything a console can do, but they seem to be moving in the PC "like" direction. Basically, if you added a keyboard and mouse you would have your own PC.

I like PC games because they USUALLY look better than the same console game, i love my keyboard and mouse, i dislike controllers, PC games have a pretty large range of genres, and i tend to be really good at them (lol sorry for being modest).

The only drawback that i see about PC gaming is that you have to upgrade every few years IF you want to play on the highest settings,which i want.

Trackman2010 posted an extremely good example of how PC gaming is not dying. And i will be buying a lot of those games, especially Project Offset. I have been waiting for that game a long time.
August 11, 2008 9:52:57 AM

I should point out console games generally tend to have lots of money spent on them in terms of marketing all of which needs to be recouped, since PC games like Solar Empire don't have those kinds of marketing budgets they don't need to sell as many to become profitable.
August 11, 2008 11:16:34 AM

Every now and then, comes a doomsday post about PC gaming.

Every now and then, comes a doomsday post about Console Gaming.

Hey !! they are both alive and kicking !!! Dont blame piracy on the PC gaming, it is more rampart on consoles !!!
Only PS3 isn't chipped because ,well, it isn't worth it !!!

Ill save your keyboards from more destruction quoting RobWright.

Quote:
This is like Groundhog Day, and there's not much in this thread can be considered new information or viewpoints.

Software piracy is stealing. Wait, no it's not -- I'm not physically depriving anything from anyone. Wait, yes I am -- I'm taking revenue away from the game developers/publishers. But wait, they deserve it -- their products are crap and they swindled me with a bad game. But wait, try a demo first before you buy the game. But hold on, demos suck and are misleading. But piracy is scaring away game developers from the PC! Wait, no it's not -- it's a form of quality control and only bad games get pirated. But wait, what about great games like Call of Duty 4 and Sins of a Solar Empire -- those got pirated quite a bit. But those games still sold great, so what's the big deal if a few got ripped....right?


Oh wait, and the thread link. Pretty good discussion.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/99992-25-pirates-re...

Uffff...no im not a spin doctor. Im more sick of this discussions than Nehalem vs Deneb. Really.
August 11, 2008 2:23:23 PM

True - this topic is so last autumn.

Consoles are a good market as its less hassle to develop a game for each console as it has a single, standard hardware+software layout. So games can be pushed out and refined quciker. Different OS's, hardware + GPUs and configurations etc cause all sorts of hassles in PC gaming development.
Its also harder and more of a hassle to pirate console games ( mostly ) and since most console gamers arent as tech savvy as the PC crowd they are less likely to mess about and hack and pirate. So it is a very encouraging market to pursue from a developers point of vue.

But... the fact that Microsoft is still developing PC based OS's based around the Windows platform, and the reality that companies such as Blizzard ( immensely, immensely bouyant from all of their WOW profit ), Valve and Activision are making increasing profits annualy just proves the OP's uneducated post to be quite preposterous.

To boot online distribution sites are getting more hits than ever and are raking in large profit margins. Steam is making a killing by offering deals on older software on a large scale due to the mass audience interesting in momentarily reliving older classics for cheap. This is an entirely different, if not better market as it just couldnt be achieved in store and on a tangible level. Also keep in mind overheads from these online ventures are substantially decreased due to the whole transaction happening via cyberspace. No shipping, printing,packing or packaging costs - no middle man vendors and shippers. A great marketplace if you ask me - which inevatably makes things cheaper for you and me the PC gaming consumer.

PCs and hence PC gaming are going no where. Windows, Intel, APPLE and AMD arent going to let them :) 

[ Plus, in about 3-4 years to graphics and processing power of even the PS3 are going to look and seem dated. There will be a lull in the console market as focus is put on better more powerful technolgies and engines which PCs will, as always, be able to take advantage of. PC gaming will get the limelight for a little while till the next generation of Neo-Computers *cough*, sorry, consoles are announced and released. And so the cycle continues. Until of course all the consoles come with mice and keyboards - which would make them dummed down computers... ]
/rant off
August 12, 2008 9:40:33 PM

I blame WoW instead of consoles. For the almost 2 years I played WoW I bought maybe 1 or 2 games. Now that I'm done with that hiccup in my life I buy a game a month (about 50/50 pc/console split).

Anecdotally (spelling?) I wasn't alone. A lot of people just quit buying games when they are playing a lot of WoW because you don't have time for anything else.

*edit, that being said, I think the convenience of console games and the lack of cheaters in online play is making consoles more and more attractive.
August 12, 2008 11:42:10 PM

WoW is definitely a large part of it. MMOs in general really. While stuck on an MMO, attention for other games is very much diminished.

Regardless of the MMO effect on sales though, Valve has reported increasing sales and profits through Steam, not decreasing. That indicates to me that the larger effect is definitely that more and more people are using online distribution instead of going out to Walmart and Best Buy to get the games. Honestly, I wish that Steam and Impulse would publish their sales numbers so that there was a more fair comparison between PC game sales and console game sales.
August 13, 2008 7:22:10 PM

When and if I go into a retail outlet to buy a game, I know exzactly what I am getting (I am a hardcore gamer so I know when pretty much everything is coming out and research it through articles and info on the net). I remember when the isles used to be a bit longer but they were mostly full of crap or stuff you have already purchased and beaten. The console section is getting larger but they are full of mostly crap too. When I buy a game for a console again I know what I am getting and have been expecting it to come out or just have been waiting to purchase it. I guess what I am trying to say is nothing lol. I love all games wether it be on my PC or my consoles.
August 13, 2008 11:06:20 PM

pc's are still where the gamers play. who do you know that built their console?

as long as liquid nitrogen can be used in the pc gaming experience, pc's will not only remain viable, but the choice of those who know.

I feel pity for my console playing friends, and honestly, I believe they feel envy.
August 13, 2008 11:12:55 PM

trackman2010 said:
I actually made a list for myself yesterday of the games I might be interested in coming out till the end of the year. I'll post them here to give you an idea:

Space Siege
STALKER Clear Sky
Mercenaries 2: World in Flames
Spore
Legendary
The Witcher Enhanced Edition
Crysis Warhead
Pure
Rise of the Argonauts
Brother in Arms Hell's Highway
Project Origin
Sacred 2 Fallen Angel
Fallout 3
Saints Row 2
Far Cry 2
Dead Space
James Bond Quantom of Solace
Left 4 Dead
Lord of the Rings Conquest
Mirror's Edge
Grand Theft Auto 4
Tomb Raider Underworld
Damnation

Games coming sometime next year or the year after:

Dragon Age
Prince of Persia
Red Alert 3
Stacraft 2
Diablo 3

Rage
Doom 4
Street Fighter 4
Bionic Commando
Bionic Commando Rearmed
Dark Void
Bioshock 2
Prototype
The Last Remnant
Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War II
Half-Life 2: Episode 3
Half-Life 3 (?)
Call of Duty World at War
Call of Duty 5 (?)
Project Offset

Games not yet announced for PC, but most likely will be eventually:

Fable 2
Gears of War 2
Resident Evil 5

Bolded game = exclusive.

Bottom line: PC gaming the way I see it is far, far, far from going away anytime soon. Not only are there at least TWENTY TWO titles coming out on the PC platform this last quarter, but FIVE of them are exclusives (or at least temporary exclusives, because let's face it: exclusivity is not good business on any platform these days for any developer/publisher).

PC gaming is not going anywhere. :) 



Bionic Commando Rearmed comes out tomorrow :) 
August 14, 2008 8:26:11 AM

New X game in the autumn as well.
August 14, 2008 4:37:03 PM

jimr9999us said:
pc's are still where the gamers play. who do you know that built their console?

as long as liquid nitrogen can be used in the pc gaming experience, pc's will not only remain viable, but the choice of those who know.

I feel pity for my console playing friends, and honestly, I believe they feel envy.


The console players were too busy actually playing games to worry about liquid nitrogen. Trust me, console only gamers could care less about that silliness. If they do care, they build a PC and play on both.

Pure pc-gamers are more likely to feel envy because console players actually leave the house occasionally instead of burning 3 weeks of real life to get down Reliquary of Souls or whatever your guild's on now.
August 14, 2008 4:47:09 PM

Quote:
Pure pc-gamers are more likely to feel envy because console players actually leave the house occasionally instead of burning 3 weeks of real life to get down Reliquary of Souls or whatever your guild's on now.

That's an absolutely idiotic and childish statement.
August 14, 2008 7:06:33 PM

You are naive if you think pc gaming will ever die. Do you honestly think someday people will just stop making games for the pc? Are you crazy. There are problems with pc gaming that can be improved, but as long as there are pc's there will be pc gaming.

A lot of companies are moving towards consoles, yes but others will step upo and take their place.
August 15, 2008 4:43:50 AM

Say what you want -

Anybody's who's not deflated about the current state of PC gaming has not been a PC gamer for very long.

I remember being in college and going to gamer stores that had wall after wall of PC games (in HUGE boxes). And in the middle were displays full of Voodoo and soundblaster cards, joysticks, etc

I used to spend an hour or so in stores like that checking out games.

That's all consoleland now.

I mean - I love Steam and all, but please. Is that what we PC gamers are left with? We're not even worth the packaging cost anymore?

Anybody who's happy with that, be my guest. Not me.
August 15, 2008 5:54:10 AM

I spend about 20+ hours a week playing PC games, and the last console I bought was an N64. So I'm probably as much far on the PC end of the spectrum as you can get. And I have to admit that I have a hard time finding anything to play these days.

Consoles do seem to be massively outpacing the PC, and it's a real shame. In my opinion gaming has fallen into the same routine as Hollywood blockbusters. It's about generic mass-marketed entertainment with no regard to any artistic value or true innovation in gameplay.

To me, consoles have always felt like advanced toys more than something for serious gaming. Nobody I know that has one has ever shown me anything to dispel that idea. When I think of the few games I've really enjoyed in recent years, I can't help but think of how several of them would have been better without the influence and limitations imposed by consoles being so dominant.

Ultimately, I think the problem isn't that most good games are now made for consoles instead of PCs. The real problem is that as consoles have become dominant, hardly any really good games are being made at all anymore. Most innovations are ones that are in the direction of making gaming into fun toys for the masses, not a serious and legitimate form of media.
August 15, 2008 6:58:37 AM

MrIcky said:
The console players were too busy actually playing games to worry about liquid nitrogen. Trust me, console only gamers could care less about that silliness. If they do care, they build a PC and play on both.

Pure pc-gamers are more likely to feel envy because console players actually leave the house occasionally instead of burning 3 weeks of real life to get down Reliquary of Souls or whatever your guild's on now.


I'm sensing some envy, mricky. Just an observation, not a judgement.
August 15, 2008 9:27:30 AM

Ananan said:


That's all consoleland now.

I mean - I love Steam and all, but please. Is that what we PC gamers are left with? We're not even worth the packaging cost anymore?

Anybody who's happy with that, be my guest. Not me.



You need to take a step a back and look at what the PC stands for in the world of gaming. All the innovation and new ideas are trailed on the PC first (as both of us are PC gamers I don’t need to list them) and successful ideas don’t end up on the consoles for years and years. Online distribution is just another step forward for PC games, why should PC games be stuck using the same business model as console games? Selling games in boxes in stores is so 20th century, we live in the 21st century now things change, if they don't change products die.
August 15, 2008 9:51:46 AM

JeanLuc said:
...Selling games in boxes in stores is so 20th century...


Who benefits the most from the elimination of packaging?

If I'm going to shell out $30, $40, $50 for a game why TF can't I at least get a printed manual?

Or at least a $10 discount?


August 15, 2008 10:15:57 AM

Ananan said:
Who benefits the most from the elimination of packaging?

If I'm going to shell out $30, $40, $50 for a game why TF can't I at least get a printed manual?

Or at least a $10 discount?


Who benefits? Everyone! Reduced cost to game developers (benefit to them) which makes the PC a more attractive prospect to release games for (benefit to us). Plus, I've currently run out of shelf space for the vast number of games I have.

Printed manual? What for? So you can read it while having a crap? I think the last time I read a game manual (years and years ago) was the WoW one while it was installing and updating. I don't really find it necessary for games these days. There are very few games that you would actually NEED to read the manual to be able to play, and even then it would be better in electronic format so that you could quickly search for specific topics if you needed to.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't games on Steam already available for less than at retail? Take into account bundles like Eidos's everything pack (20 games for £50) and it's a bargain!
August 15, 2008 11:26:00 AM

#1 reason your seeing less games in stores... Digital downloads
#1 reason your seeing less hardware in stores.... Its cheaper online

Seriously i can pay $500 for the same card i can find online for like $200 anymore. why buy at a store imo.

Consoles arent a fad whoever said that. They have been here for decades.

To the guy that said computer makers have to sell them for $400 with top of the line hardware.. First a console should do that for more then 1 month.

PC games arent dieing pc games are just getting really really really bad. Its like every game i look forword to playing is so poorly written its not worth playing. Dont get me wrong i wouldnt play a console for anything i cant stand how dumbed down alot of games on them are (cant think of many or any games on a console i really care to play) even if there was one it normaly came out on PC first and was done way way better there.

I will forever be a PC gamer simply for the fact its always evolving im not stuck with hardware that was outdated the day a console hits the market and can NEVER upgrade it to play the eye candy my computer can if i just spend a couple hundred on a new video card that can last as long as 2 years depending on my preferences. For people like me PC gaming is expensive but we demand the best not just good enough to play this game we wana see it all in 30 inch graphics.consoles cant even come close to delivering what i want in a game. If game developers want more people to buy thier games put some thought into them. Dont put out 10 games a year that you spent little time on makign and wonder why everyone downloads it to play here and there instead of making a steller game like half life where everyone likes it so damn much they just buy it cuz they know the game wont ever die.

PC gaming isnt dead and wont die as long as developers actualy care about the software they are putting out. I personaly pirate software on a try before i buy basis. Like it or not thats what i grew up on and think im wrong or not i will continue to do that. i buy most the software i try but there is alot out there im glad i didnt buy to find out i hated it.

This is for the people complaining about games not being in store thinking thats a sign pc gaming is dieing (rolls eyes) I LOVE DIGITAL DOWNLOADS i hate having to keep track of all those usless box's and keys. Good riddence to box's ost cd's and keys and all that stupid plastic.

I been gaming on pc's since before the 286 (yeah not really good games of course) and been gaming since a little before atari. i stopped playing consoles after snes and sega cd had every console even hand helds. They didnt really keep my interest like the pc games did. i never went back and dont see any reason to.

Dont be stupid if pc gaming dies that means gaming died all together same for console gaming. both would have to come to a end for a single to come to a end. GAMING WILL NEVER DIE NEVER its to adictive people will game even if the new medium in which they do it is VR and pc's and consoles die. Im sure they wont call it gaming anymore but jesus it will just be a virtual game to me ;) 
August 15, 2008 11:30:04 AM

mothhive said:
...I think the last time I read a game manual (years and years ago) was the WoW one while it was installing and updating. I don't really find it necessary for games these days...


I think this.

I think that.

Therein lies the problem, I think.
August 15, 2008 11:39:36 AM

Manuals were the paper things i never took out of the box and lost the box when i tossed it somewhere. last time i read one was when i got atari games and was to young to really understand the concept's you learn as you get older.
August 15, 2008 12:51:48 PM

Lol. I never used to read manuals becuase for me, they contained just too many spoilers. I like playing a game where i dont know every exact thing that is in store for me.

I remember playing Diablo. I ignored the manual and loved finding new weapon types and armour classes. My mate on the other hand read his manual cover to cover repetatively. And when i chatted to him about the game he liked it but wasnt really as immersed. All he wanted was the end armour and the big axe that he saw in the pictures in the manual.

Plus its like a man asking someone for direction because he got lost and is a failure. It tears away a piece of your soul by doing it.
August 15, 2008 1:53:11 PM

Hehe.... I bought the Orange Box because well hell downloading anothe 4GB was too long for me even @ 500KB/s+. I built a new machine just for Half Life 2 Episode 2 and didn't want to wait to play it.

The box is nice to have because it makes it easier to install stuff but I didn't get a manual. I got a piece of paper with the serial number for it on it.

Oh but you do get a manual for TF2. Right click it in Steam and go to View Manual.

I think Steam is a godsend to both PC gamers and game makers. Why? It makes it easy for a gamer because the game is forever tied to your Steam ID meaning if you lose the disc you can redownload it via Steam. It also helps to stop piracy so the game makers can make money to continue making more games.
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