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Manhattan - recent service degredation?

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June 7, 2004 5:26:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On the upper west side of Manhattan.

I have recently experienced a serious drop in service quality and signal
strength causing me to miss calls, and to have my phone go into analog,
which is preferable to a 1X signal with no bars where there used to be 3
bars etc.

Verizon insisted it was my phone, and after two attempts to fix it, they
swapped it out for another (VX 4400).

Needless to say, the problems of poor signal on the upper west side
continued.

Is anyone else having this problem in this area?

Louise
June 7, 2004 4:11:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Louise wrote:

> On the upper west side of Manhattan.
>
> I have recently experienced a serious drop in service quality and signal
> strength causing me to miss calls, and to have my phone go into analog,
> which is preferable to a 1X signal with no bars where there used to be 3
> bars etc.
>
> Verizon insisted it was my phone, and after two attempts to fix it, they
> swapped it out for another (VX 4400).
>
> Needless to say, the problems of poor signal on the upper west side
> continued.
>
> Is anyone else having this problem in this area?
>
> Louise

I don't know if it will do any good and/or if this site is still being
monitored, but, you may want to check out-
http://www.nyc.gov/html/misc/html/mobilesurvey.html
June 8, 2004 12:06:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <40c4939f$0$2924$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>, scott@nospam.com
says...
> Louise wrote:
>
> > On the upper west side of Manhattan.
> >
> > I have recently experienced a serious drop in service quality and signal
> > strength causing me to miss calls, and to have my phone go into analog,
> > which is preferable to a 1X signal with no bars where there used to be 3
> > bars etc.
> >
> > Verizon insisted it was my phone, and after two attempts to fix it, they
> > swapped it out for another (VX 4400).
> >
> > Needless to say, the problems of poor signal on the upper west side
> > continued.
> >
> > Is anyone else having this problem in this area?
> >
> > Louise
>
> I don't know if it will do any good and/or if this site is still being
> monitored, but, you may want to check out-
> http://www.nyc.gov/html/misc/html/mobilesurvey.html
>
Thanks - it wasn't clear if it was being monitored but I had nothing to
lose to fill out a form, and I did so. Perhaps it will help.

Louise
Related resources
June 8, 2004 10:49:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

> Thanks - it wasn't clear if it was being monitored but I had nothing to
> lose to fill out a form, and I did so. Perhaps it will help.
>
> Louise

You are welcome! Hopefully it will help. If you did not see it,
interesting article on cc.com today.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/06/08/mobile.phone.r...
June 9, 2004 3:59:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <40c64260$0$2949$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>, scott@nospam.com
says...
> > Thanks - it wasn't clear if it was being monitored but I had nothing to
> > lose to fill out a form, and I did so. Perhaps it will help.
> >
> > Louise
>
> You are welcome! Hopefully it will help. If you did not see it,
> interesting article on cc.com today.
> http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/06/08/mobile.phone.r...
>
Great story with some truly funny moments.

I must say that tech support (via telephone) appears to truly be trying
to help. The tech even stayed on the phone with me for an hour today as
we terminated service on my present phone, set up service on an old
StarTac I still have, and "proved" that it isn't the phone because the
same signal weakness and instability plagued both phones.

He said this would enable him to go back to the people in the field with
this information. He also had me phone a special number several times
to see which tower I was actually picking up.

I don't know what will happen from here but maybe all those new support
people they hired will make some difference.

If no luck, onto a letter to the regional office.

Meanwhile, my phone is on the window sill with the antenna extended out
the window in an effort to get enough signal to be sure that I receive
my calls :-)

Louise
June 9, 2004 10:40:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

> Great story with some truly funny moments.
>
> I must say that tech support (via telephone) appears to truly be trying
> to help. The tech even stayed on the phone with me for an hour today as
> we terminated service on my present phone, set up service on an old
> StarTac I still have, and "proved" that it isn't the phone because the
> same signal weakness and instability plagued both phones.
>
> He said this would enable him to go back to the people in the field with
> this information. He also had me phone a special number several times
> to see which tower I was actually picking up.
>
> I don't know what will happen from here but maybe all those new support
> people they hired will make some difference.
>
> If no luck, onto a letter to the regional office.
>
> Meanwhile, my phone is on the window sill with the antenna extended out
> the window in an effort to get enough signal to be sure that I receive
> my calls :-)
>
> Louise

Interesting Louise! For what its worth, in case you did not see this
snippet within this NG in another post, this may prove to be of help
with coverage, but, I am not sure.

>>From what I've been reading in a.c.v, Verizon could use some additional
>
>>>network capacity in NYC...
>
>
> They have it already. The 1900MHz system in the NJ/NYC area gets
> turned on around Aug/Sept. They need it for EVDO
Anonymous
June 10, 2004 1:39:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 23:59:01 -0400, Louise <none@nospam.com> wrote:
>He said this would enable him to go back to the people in the field with
>this information. He also had me phone a special number several times
>to see which tower I was actually picking up.

Given that you're in Manhattan, is it possible that someone built a new
building which is blocking or otherwise interfering with your local cell
site? Do you know the location of the cell site you were using before
you started having problems?

Also, sometimes cell sites have problems. Your earlier post ("So far
they are denying they DID anything...") made it sound like some sort of
evil plan on Verizon's part to provide you with lousy service.
June 11, 2004 4:34:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <40c6e924$0$2922$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>, scott@nospam.com
says...
> > Great story with some truly funny moments.
> >
> > I must say that tech support (via telephone) appears to truly be trying
> > to help. The tech even stayed on the phone with me for an hour today as
> > we terminated service on my present phone, set up service on an old
> > StarTac I still have, and "proved" that it isn't the phone because the
> > same signal weakness and instability plagued both phones.
> >
> > He said this would enable him to go back to the people in the field with
> > this information. He also had me phone a special number several times
> > to see which tower I was actually picking up.
> >
> > I don't know what will happen from here but maybe all those new support
> > people they hired will make some difference.
> >
> > If no luck, onto a letter to the regional office.
> >
> > Meanwhile, my phone is on the window sill with the antenna extended out
> > the window in an effort to get enough signal to be sure that I receive
> > my calls :-)
> >
> > Louise
>
> Interesting Louise! For what its worth, in case you did not see this
> snippet within this NG in another post, this may prove to be of help
> with coverage, but, I am not sure.
>
> >>From what I've been reading in a.c.v, Verizon could use some additional
> >
> >>>network capacity in NYC...
> >
> >
> > They have it already. The 1900MHz system in the NJ/NYC area gets
> > turned on around Aug/Sept. They need it for EVDO
>
Are you saying that when the 1900 system gets turned on in NJ/NYC around
August, September, that will add the needed coverage or are they using
itfor something special - (sorry, I don't know what EVDO is...

Louise
June 11, 2004 4:39:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <8ragc0petdc3mq00bksd1qell5j4v1tfae@4ax.com>, njtbob2@X-
optonline-X.net says...
> On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 23:59:01 -0400, Louise <none@nospam.com> wrote:
> >He said this would enable him to go back to the people in the field with
> >this information. He also had me phone a special number several times
> >to see which tower I was actually picking up.
>
> Given that you're in Manhattan, is it possible that someone built a new
> building which is blocking or otherwise interfering with your local cell
> site? Do you know the location of the cell site you were using before
> you started having problems?

No new building were built. I face a park and a river and the buildings
on either side have been there for close to 80 years. I don't know the
location of the cell site I was using - how does one find that out?
>
> Also, sometimes cell sites have problems. Your earlier post ("So far
> they are denying they DID anything...") made it sound like some sort of
> evil plan on Verizon's part to provide you with lousy service.
>
>
Well, perhaps I didn't put it well. They are saying they had trouble in
the area several weeks ago, the trouble has been repaired for a few
weeks and that everything was put back to the way it was before. In
other words, they repaired something and recreated it exactly as it
was....except they didn't get it back the way it was. I certainly
expect they didn't MEAN to destroy my signal (and others), but that is
what happened and it's hard to get them to acknowledge this with enough
seriousness, to really check it out.

I've since found 2 other people in my apartment building who are
experiencing the same frustrations and lack of signal and signal
stability.

Louise
Anonymous
June 11, 2004 4:07:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 00:39:23 -0400, Louise <none@nospam.com> wrote:
>No new building were built. I face a park and a river and the buildings
>on either side have been there for close to 80 years.

The problem could even be that, for example, a new tower was built in New
Jersey, and your phone is now picking that tower or somehow getting
confused by the new signals. I've been in some hotels where my phone
won't get a good signal in a 7th floor room, but it does just fine in the
hotel parking lot. I figure the extra signals available when up in the
air were confusing the phone.

Weird signal reflections from other buildings (say, if a new cell site
was turned on) can also cause problems.

Be persistent with Verizon. They'll figure it out eventually. (More on
this below.)

Oh, one more thing - They didn't just add cell phone antennas to your
building's roof, did they? I've had trouble inside a building where the
cell site was on the roof.

>I don't know the
>location of the cell site I was using - how does one find that out?

Do a Google Groups search for a thread with the subject "PN Offset
Interpretation". Basically, you bring up the debug screen and get the PN
Offset value your phone is using. The PN Offset is unique for each cell
site sector. The difference between the PN Offset values used by each
sector on a single site is 168. e.g., a site could have PN Offsets of
24, 192, and 360 for the three sets of antennas. Then you walk/drive
around until you get a strong signal strength (in the -50 dBm range) for
that PN Offset. If you then circle the site, you'll see the PN Offset go
through the three possible values separated by 168. You've found the
cell site!

Regarding signal problems, if you do a Google Groups search for "water
tank bounce", you'll find the following post (BAM is Bell Atlantic
Mobile, a predecessor of Verizon Wireless):

>A about three years ago, BAM was having a network problem. I live 2
>miles north of a then BAM tower in RI, that tower has no north face.
>After weeks of problems, BAM traced my cell phone and discovered I was
>routing through the south face of the RI tower. Well, draw some lines,
>it was water tank bounce!
>
>The problem was, BAM thought it was impossible to interfere with the
>nearby MA towers and that tower was not co-ordinated with those
>towers. It was less than one square mile, odd shaped area, that had
>this unusual (?) problem. In this small area, I was hitting two
>uncoordinated towers. Different states, same home SID.
>
>Till they coordinated the towers, I used a cookie sheet to block
>signals to the south ;-) sitting outside my house, just the concrete
>foundation would absorb enough to block one or another. Front yard,
>use a MA tower, Back yard, RI tower via bounce.
>
>They didn't believe me and finally sent a field test crew (their
>words, one guy). He traced the same path! Just in my neighborhood.
> ...
>BAM had counted on terrain to prevent problems, didn't count on a
>water tank "mirror" on top of a hill. It was the same SID, Same home
>area, they didn't coordinate it.

Fun stuff!

Bob
June 12, 2004 4:00:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <766jc01lgmt4gsbbdd9l1vbnai4187n490@4ax.com>, njtbob2@X-
optonline-X.net says...
> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 00:39:23 -0400, Louise <none@nospam.com> wrote:
> >No new building were built. I face a park and a river and the buildings
> >on either side have been there for close to 80 years.
>
> The problem could even be that, for example, a new tower was built in New
> Jersey, and your phone is now picking that tower or somehow getting
> confused by the new signals. I've been in some hotels where my phone
> won't get a good signal in a 7th floor room, but it does just fine in the
> hotel parking lot. I figure the extra signals available when up in the
> air were confusing the phone.
>
> Weird signal reflections from other buildings (say, if a new cell site
> was turned on) can also cause problems.
>
> Be persistent with Verizon. They'll figure it out eventually. (More on
> this below.)
>
> Oh, one more thing - They didn't just add cell phone antennas to your
> building's roof, did they? I've had trouble inside a building where the
> cell site was on the roof.
>
> >I don't know the
> >location of the cell site I was using - how does one find that out?
>
> Do a Google Groups search for a thread with the subject "PN Offset
> Interpretation". Basically, you bring up the debug screen and get the PN
> Offset value your phone is using. The PN Offset is unique for each cell
> site sector. The difference between the PN Offset values used by each
> sector on a single site is 168. e.g., a site could have PN Offsets of
> 24, 192, and 360 for the three sets of antennas. Then you walk/drive
> around until you get a strong signal strength (in the -50 dBm range) for
> that PN Offset. If you then circle the site, you'll see the PN Offset go
> through the three possible values separated by 168. You've found the
> cell site!
>
> Regarding signal problems, if you do a Google Groups search for "water
> tank bounce", you'll find the following post (BAM is Bell Atlantic
> Mobile, a predecessor of Verizon Wireless):
>
> >A about three years ago, BAM was having a network problem. I live 2
> >miles north of a then BAM tower in RI, that tower has no north face.
> >After weeks of problems, BAM traced my cell phone and discovered I was
> >routing through the south face of the RI tower. Well, draw some lines,
> >it was water tank bounce!
> >
> >The problem was, BAM thought it was impossible to interfere with the
> >nearby MA towers and that tower was not co-ordinated with those
> >towers. It was less than one square mile, odd shaped area, that had
> >this unusual (?) problem. In this small area, I was hitting two
> >uncoordinated towers. Different states, same home SID.
Thanks for the info - I hope I don't have to figure it out :-)

I did get the idea to post a notice in my apartment building and found
another VZ user having the same difficulties. I gave her the phone
number for the tech I was dealing with, along with my trouble ticket
number and she spoke with him as well.

I'm told they are sending "a crew" out here tomorrow to check out the
cell sites in the area.

If this is true, and I think it probably is, I think they've handled it
pretty well so far, but of course it's not fixed yet, so we'll see.

The tech did have me call a number several times so he could see what
cell sites I was hitting. I don't know how he did that, but he seemed
to be sincerely trying to figure things out and that is reassuring.

If necessary, I plan to post notices on the block and more in my
building and I can probably get many trouble tickets opened - that
"should" get someone's attention if the present efforts don't succeed.

Louise
!