Spore DRM

[mi1ez]

So, Spore has now been out a while and EA are recieving a lot of hassle over the secuROM-7 DRM they've put on it.

http://www.custompc.co.uk/blogs/adampiper/2008/09/08/spore-and-big-bad-drm/

Amazon customers fought back and the game was repeatedly getting poor reviews, however Amazon have now removed ALL user reviews...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Electronic-Arts-Spore-Mac-DVD/dp/B000FN7K2S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1220875598&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/forum/cd/discussion.html/ref=cm_cd_NOREF/ref=cm_cd_dp_tft_tp?ie=UTF8&cdForum=Fx339XNA9CI9XXG&s=videogames&asin=B000FN7K2S&store=videogames&cdThread=Tx29XPH554SZ6HS

I was really looking forward to this game but I'm having second thoughts now...

 

[Flakes]

well im not buying it till the DRM is removed.

 

[aziraphale]

No problem so far; haven't even noticed that it has DRM...

And the game itself is tremendous fun.

 

[quantumsheep]

i pirated it just because it has DRM. As soon as they remove the DRM i'm going to buy the product.

 

[tmeacham]

i pirated it just because it has DRM. As soon as they remove the DRM i'm going to buy the product.

<sigh>

 

[Trialsking]

i pirated it just because it has DRM. As soon as they remove the DRM i'm going to buy the product.

I know what you mean. I rob banks until I can get a job. Then when I earn enough money, I will pay the banks back. Its not a big deal.

 

[purplerat]

i pirated it just because it has DRM. As soon as they remove the DRM i'm going to buy the product.

That sounds like a complete waste of money. If giving people money for no reason is your thing please send me some.

 

[robwright]

i pirated it just because it has DRM. As soon as they remove the DRM i'm going to buy the product.

That sounds like a complete waste of money. If giving people money for no reason is your thing please send me some.

I hate going back to the DRM gravy train again, but I think we've found out topic for Second Take this week.

I wonder how badly piracy will hurt Spore's PC sales...

 

[purplerat]

I fully intended on buying Spore at release but haven't due to just plain old not having enough extra cash this week. So should I just pirate it and then buy it when I do have the cash? No, that's just plain dumb either way. I'll just wait until I have the extra money then buy. People who are turned off by the DRM should do the same.

 

[purplerat]

On the actual topic of Spore's DRM, has there been much reporting on EAs actual repsonse to additional activations? I know the defacto response has always been that "EA is a bad company with a bad history of customer support so you can't rely on them" but the same could be said about Microsoft and getting additional activations from them is pretty simple. If I buy this game I'll likely install it on 3 PCs on the first day because that's what I do with most of my games so I would anticipate needing additional activations pretty quickly.

 

[ovaltineplease]

I hate going back to the DRM gravy train again, but I think we've found out topic for Second Take this week.

I wonder how badly piracy will hurt Spore's PC sales...

If we're following this by the ... target audience, I doubt it'll hurt them that much as the "target audience" are not hardcore pc users necessarily

It'll likely affect it no more than it affects any other game - the majority of people who use the DRM excuse were just going to pirate it anyways; the people who actually are educated enough to understand the implications of DRM that won't pirate games are in a sad minority.. :S

 

[Guest]

Whats wrong with pirating?
We have done it since the days man became, and this is one of the biggest reasons why have have progressed so far in technology.

Here is an idea, don't want you information(data) to belong to the public, don't releases it to the public.
Anything released to the public, is public property.

This is how information should be treated.

 

[purplerat]

Whats wrong with pirating?
We have done it since the days man became, and this is one of the biggest reasons why have have progressed so far in technology.

Except that in "the days man became" if you saw someone else stealing your idea you could simply go over and bash their skull in with your club- problem solved. Something tells me that if EA started busting pirate skulls there'd be a bit of an uproar. In a civilized society there's rules which make things work for both sides.
The idea that piracy spreads knowledge and promotes progress is narrow mindedness to the point of stupidity. The single biggest driving force behind technological progress is the ability to profit off ingenuity. Take that away and there's very little incentive except for whatever personal gain one may get directly from their own ideas, in which case it's most beneficial to do as you suggest and keep the idea to yourself.

 

[infornography42]

I have not bought it and will not play it until and IF EA unlimits the activations. I will not pay full price for a game rental.

And again you have people claiming to not have a problem with the DRM. The reason you are not having a problem with it is that you have not yet had to install it more than three times. Down the road, after a few upgrades and reinstalls you will see what the big deal was.

 

[SnareSpectre]

I'm really with what Travis said earlier in his article that sparked the 480th huge debate about piracy on these forums - why miss out on a game that you're really interested in just because of the DRM? Sure I've heard it sucks (never had to deal with any really bad ones yet), but isn't it worth it to play some of the better games out there? I mean heck, I'd put up with some sort of DRM for Starcraft or Ocarina of Time back in the day. To me it's not worth taking a tiny little pipsqueak stand and protest by not buying the game. The benefits of protesting are far outweighed by the benefits of going ahead and getting the game and enjoying it.

 

[robwright]

Whats wrong with pirating?
We have done it since the days man became, and this is one of the biggest reasons why have have progressed so far in technology.

Here is an idea, don't want you information(data) to belong to the public, don't releases it to the public.
Anything released to the public, is public property.

This is how information should be treated.

Here we go again...

Purplerat, I'm surprised you got sucked in to responding to such an ignorant, inane, and incredibly childish post. Here's my advice: don't make a mountain out of AntHill.

Ha! I'm a comedic genius!

 

[robwright]

I have not bought it and will not play it until and IF EA unlimits the activations. I will not pay full price for a game rental.

And again you have people claiming to not have a problem with the DRM. The reason you are not having a problem with it is that you have not yet had to install it more than three times. Down the road, after a few upgrades and reinstalls you will see what the big deal was.

But on a serious note....

I certainly see and respect SnareSpectre's and Travis' points, but after running into the SecuROM blockade with BioShock and experiencing the madness of the activiation limits last summer, I side with Info on this one. I'm not against developers and publishers protecting their investment from thieves, but SecuROM is the wrong way to go and will only cause more trouble.

 

[cafuddled]

I am way for protecting software from thieves, but what this 3 install rule does has nothing to do with thievery. If a thief wants a copy all this thief needs to do is download a cracked copy and play/sell to his heart’s content. The only person that is affected by this problem is the people who have paid good money for the game. In theory it stops people sharing their games with friends but in theory CD keys should have the same effect as far as online enabled games are concerned. And again in theory people who share with their next door neighbour are not really stealing and self admittedly are not the problem according to games publishers.

So who really is the thief here, publishers are making a very grey area on this. Why don’t they start attacking the real thieves and leave us honest folk alone. Harming your customer base in the vain hope of stopping copyright theft is not the way to do things.

 

[dtq]

DRM The most creative solution yet devised by games developers to make playing and installing the game less hassle for the pirates than for the paying customers...

So far DRM issues have been the cause of the following games NOT running under vista :- Star Wars Lego, Spellforce 2, and Dirt. Resorting to piracy patchs on a game I legally own and paid for has fixed these problems just like that... yet the developers dont release a patch to cure the problems for their paying legal customers. Shoddy lack of support for the people paying the money and driving people into the hands of the pirates to fix the problems cause by draconian DRM.

Whilst I will continue to buy my software legally, I do struggle to believe that DRM is really all that effective at doing anything other than annoying the legal buyers of the software...

Something tells me the companies really dont give a fig about causing me hassles with their DRM, yet they cry about their piracy issues. I wont be putting anyone down for games piracy until the games companies start showing that they care about those whose money theyve already taken...

 

[dtq]

Will I still be able to install and play with Spore in 10 years time? as I SHOULD be legally entitled to? Highly unlikely given the nature of the DRM. Will the developers release a patch to remove the DRM at somepoint? Highly unlikely, if they dont mind inconveniencing their legal customers at the point they are actually taking money from them, why would they care a couple of years down the line when no moneys coming in anymore from that title?

 

[siders1980]

I went out and bought this game yesterday but I haven't installed it yet. Now I am reading about all of this DRM crap I am thinking about taking it back! Thankfully I didn't open it. I don't want SecuROM anywhere near my computer. Also with only three activations available to me before I have to prove my case thats is just totally stupid!!! Makes me want to download a DRM free copy off the internet. Maybe the game industry should start doing what the music industry is just now starting to realize. A DRM free world!!!

 

[siders1980]

If the product is is a game that I purchase then I own that copy. If I want to want to take it out back and piss all over it that's my right. I am not renting it! Of course we have the right to buy it or not. But we paid for a product and I expect these products to work as advertised!

 

[cafuddled]

Because what you said is just like saying put up and shut up, and if any company told there end users that directly they would not be in business for much longer. Why should we just put up anyway, we are buying media that we want, we don’t not buy the DRM that comes with it. That media is forced on media that we want to buy there for we don’t like it and there for we complain.

This is not about rights, this is about what we like and what we don’t and reasons for why we think they should not be implemented. This is opinions of the people not us demanding rights, no one is born with right, rights are earned and taken. If we don’t have the rights we want we take them, this is the way this world works… or used to work anyway.

The worlds bowing before the corporations and no one has the power or will to fight it, YET.

 

[dtq]

you are only legally entitled to whatever the IP holder dictates you are unless i am mistaken. you get a limited licence to use the software under the terms and conditions as stated by the company, if having DRM and limited installs is the choice they make then that is what you are entitled to, you do not own the data or have any rights and entitlements to it unless stated in the terms and conditions so unless they are breaching the terms and conditions by including these measures you have diddley squat in terms of rights, nor SHOULD you be entitled to them in any way.

what is your reason for thinking that?

if you don't want to buy a product don't buy it, right and wrong doesn't come into it. DRM is part of the deal, don't like it then what is everyone's problem.

why do people think they have these rights? there is no logic behind these arguments.

You are actually VERY VERY WRONG in your assumption that the IP holder what you have a right to Those pieces of paper in the box arent worth much at all over here. Over here No contract terms can be "unfair" or bypass "Statutory rights"

Anyone in business here in the uk will know that unreasonable contract terms cannot be enforced, even between business, there are even stronger protections for "reasonable" terms for situations involving consumers instead of business's and where (as in with an eula) the terms are not "negotiated"

Here, Where we have the "unfair contract terms act 1977"

As a result of an EC directive, principles similar to those in the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 were extended to harsh clauses other than exclusion clauses in many contracts which are 'standard form' and where one party is a 'consumer'.

The regulations apply when:

the terms of the contract have not been individually negotiated - the terms are never 'individually negotiated' if the contract is drafted in advance and the consumer is unable to influence the substance of the terms;
one party is a seller or supplier acting for purposes in connection with his business;
the other party is a 'consumer' - defined as a natural person (ie not a company) acting outside his business.

Here in the UK "buying" a game and only being allowed to install it 3 times would very likely be seen as an unfair term. At the moment EA offer to renew the installation quote after this point What happens when the servers are no longer up and running?

Its not unreasonable to buy a piece of software and expect it if treated well to still be useable in 5-10 years time. I still play software I brought 23 years ago from time to time, and still enjoy it . I think the amount of people annoyed by the potential life span limitations of this DRM method suggests that it could well be found to be "unfair"

Of course if EA do support this game for "life" then its not unreasonable just plain annoying!

 

[purplerat]

Purplerat, I'm surprised you got sucked in to responding to such an ignorant, inane, and incredibly childish post. Here's my advice: don't make a mountain out of AntHill.

I thought the same thing right after I posted. I was doing to delete it but what the hell.
Anyways my real concern is over what the actual process for getting additional activations is. That's what will make or break if I ultimately buy the game. People keep on asking "but what if I have to reinstall my OS x number of times?". What they seem to forget is that Windows has the same type of activation scheme, so just having to constantly reinstall your OS should cause the nightmare scenario people predict for this game. Exactly that was predicted for Vista, but it really hasn't proven to be much of a problem. If EA implements similar techniques I really would have no issue with them and will buy the game. Obviously people who haven't bought the game or have pirated it can not really answer that question, but Rob if you decide to do a Second Take or article on this issue I'd really be interested in knowing what the REAL effect of this activation limit is not just what all the hype/hysteria is.