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Stop the Pirateing. ALL READ

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October 10, 2008 4:22:02 AM

Something has to be done. Ubisoft is pushing back the release of its new game End Wars for the pc. We all know why they are doing this. Its because of the Pirateing that goes on. People can try to denie it all they want but it gets done too much. Truthfully i got turned on to it because of Bioshock DRM issues. Why pay 50 bucks for a game. Have vista cause you to reinstall it...Or reformat your hdd a few times and your out of licences. As thats what happened to me and it was a pierated verson that allowed me to replay a game that i had only purched a few days ago. People are trying to show people that They don't like DRM by boycotting. Like they are doing with SPORE but thats only half the fight. If you go and do that. But pirate the game. Your only doing THEM a favor. Giveing THEM more data to support why they should use more and better DRM measures on the games. It was shortly after playing Crysis that i stopped Pirateing games. It was a big step to delete all traces of the new releases that i had. And then go out and buy them. But it was what needed to be done. I didn't want to be part of the reason why PC gamers Don't get the games that they deserve.

But companies should look for other ways to get around Pirateing. Look at Steam for instance. Look at all the games that Valve has on it. Yes there are ways to get around it and get pirated copies of the games to work. But not alot of people do it for the main reason that. Its near impossiable to lose that game. As long as you keep your email address right. And your credit info. You can still dl that game on 500 computers. And not worry about loseing it. Truthfully i would love to see Farcry 2 come out just on Steam for pc. Let them see how much pirateing goes on then. Instead of upsetting the customers the companies should find alternate ways to distrubute there games. Hell Push back the release date of pc games. But offer one time bonus's for the people who pay for it. Special maps for multiplayer games. Different skins or options. Its stuff like that. Small stuff that will save the company headakes and money loss.

But even with all this its down to the PC gamer to do the right thing. You might think that your saveing money by pirateing the latest game to play. But what would you do if you found out Diablo 3, Star Craft 2, Fear 2, Cnc:RA 3, Fall Out 3, and FAR CRY 2, Will never be released on PC because of Pirateing. Would you be able to tell your self that it was worth pirateing those games? Belive me. Someone who did it allot and offten. Its not worth it.

[Sorry for spelling Errors. I'm not a Spelling GOD and its late. But you get what i mean.]

More about : stop pirateing read

October 10, 2008 9:19:19 AM

Well; if it isn't another flaming thread...
October 10, 2008 3:08:19 PM

I didn't mean this to be a Flaming thread. I mean it to be a eye opener. Gamers need to stick togather and stop this problem before it gets to big. Gets to the point where we don't get good new games because the companies think they will not make enough money. The last few weeks should be eye openers for everone who pirates games.
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October 10, 2008 3:37:52 PM

At the moment I don't think pirates have any motivation to stop. You don't really hear much about them actually being dealt with, just the problem of piracy itself. Get a couple of high profile lawsuits going where the pirates end up paying more than they can comfortyably afford for the rest of their lives and the numbers will lessen. I don't think the average pirate really cares whether they hurt the industry, so the threat of hurting their bank accounts is the only way to get through to them.

Less harshly, mass adoption of Steam would help prevent piracy and make it more affordable to actually buy the games for the pirates who do it because they "don't make enough money".
October 10, 2008 4:44:43 PM

It's time for something new.

How do you think the folks that owned books felt when the printing press was developed and the value of their books plummeted?

They would have destroyed that damn machine if they could have. And the world would probably be hundreds of years behind in terms of general education (and level of innovation).

Remember all the whining about how VHS(beta) and cassette (jeez I don't even remember how to spell that) tapes would destroy the markets for TV and music? Didn't happen as far as I know.

I realize the web is a far greater challenge to intellectual property, but the industry as to embrace new tech and work with it instead of hanging on to old business models.

If people like to download free stuff, give them free stuff. Just make sure it's of high enough quality that you can sell them follow-up items.

Libraries work, don't they? Thay haven't destroyed the market for books.
October 10, 2008 5:31:11 PM

Stop the Pirateing. ALL PRESS THE SPELLCHECKER

October 10, 2008 5:42:46 PM

fakesnnotreal said:
I didn't mean this to be a Flaming thread. I mean it to be a eye opener. Gamers need to stick togather and stop this problem before it gets to big. Gets to the point where we don't get good new games because the companies think they will not make enough money. The last few weeks should be eye openers for everone who pirates games.

Yeah, that's one way of looking at it. The other way of looking at it is that game companies are doing more harm to the platform than piracy, with overly restrictive DRM and late releases for PC. It's that kind of **** that's going to kill the PC platform, and I'm not going to support it by giving those developers money. That means I'll miss out on a lot of games I'd otherwise buy, but so be it. I don't have much time these days for gaming anyway.
October 10, 2008 5:57:34 PM

OK, I'm about to sound like an old fart, mostly because I am. I've been on this planet for 62+ years and some facets of human nature are inescapable when you see them as often as I have. People are selfish. They only care about others when being observed. Pirating is done in private (unobserved) and so no matter how noble pirates talk in public they revert when nobody is looking. The lesson to be learned is that as long as people can get something for nothing, they will. Therefore the only way pirating will stop is to make it impossible (unlikely) or to find a way to make it preferable. Peer pressure is unlikely to have a significant effect so threads like this one are a waste of time. I do agree that limiting installations is ineffective unless you're just trying to piss people off.
October 10, 2008 6:04:09 PM

Quote:
Libraries work, don't they? Thay haven't destroyed the market for books.

Not quite sure why I still bother, but I've got a few minutes and I'm bored.

Libraries do not hurt book sales because the cost of reproducing a book in terms of time, paper, ink, etc is greater than the cost of buying a book new. So consumers have the option of either being a book which they can keep or renting one for a limited time via a library membership; each having it's own benefits and drawbacks. With piracy the choice is different. Either you pay for a game in full and own it or you pay nothing and still get the same exact thing.
October 10, 2008 11:29:33 PM

you cant boycott something that you don't know about, it is not like at the store theres a giant logo on the front saying "Warning this game uses securom DRM"

a pirate will never buy the game. drm wont make the pirate any more willing to buy the game

but drm will make a legit user more likely to become a pirate if the drm becomes enough of an annoyance
October 11, 2008 1:51:39 AM

purplerat said:
Quote:
Libraries work, don't they? Thay haven't destroyed the market for books.

Not quite sure why I still bother, but I've got a few minutes and I'm bored.

Libraries do not hurt book sales because the cost of reproducing a book in terms of time, paper, ink, etc is greater than the cost of buying a book new. So consumers have the option of either being a book which they can keep or renting one for a limited time via a library membership; each having it's own benefits and drawbacks. With piracy the choice is different. Either you pay for a game in full and own it or you pay nothing and still get the same exact thing.


You missed the point completely. It has nothing to do with production costs.

Books contain intellectual property, which libraries make available for free.
October 11, 2008 3:04:47 AM

Ananan said:
You missed the point completely. It has nothing to do with production costs.

Books contain intellectual property, which libraries make available for free.

There's nothing wrong with making something availble for free. If I buy a game and let me friends play it or give it away there's nothing wrong with that. It's the replication part of piracy that is harmful because it devalues the original product. You can have as many people as you want share a single unit like a book or a game on a cd because person only gets a limited share which is proportional to the amount paid for it. i.e. if 100 people pool money together to buy a book each only pays 1/100 of the price but only gets a 1/100 share. But with replication each person can get a 100% share for only a fraction of what it's worth. Just to point it out, libraries are not free; they are supported by tax dollars so therefore each tax payer has paid his or her share.

For some reason a lot of people seem do not be able to get that concept. But think about money. Couldn't we just eliminate poverty by simply creating a bunch more money? Replicating money is pretty simple whether it's printing new paper currency or just filling up bank accounts with virtual amounts. It would be virtually cost free to do so and would not involve taking anything away from anybody else. It's a no lose situation, so why don't we just do that? Because doing so would severly devalue the "real" money people had earned. And from there everything just starts to go downhill.
But sharing money is perfectly fine. Donations and charities are perfectly acceptable as opposed to counterfeiting or bank fraud. You can pass a buck as much as you want and there's no problem. Make a copy and you're in big trouble.
October 11, 2008 4:43:07 AM

Maybe some part of an answer is to make games cheaper in some way. Say... you can play through the full campaign for $10 and every time you want to play it through after that, costs another $5 (This done through a control system similar to Steam). Multiplayer has a subscription-style cost to it, similar to an MMO, but cheaper.

I just think the pricing needs to be looked at. A game that takes 10 hours to complete costs $40, regardless of whether you're someone who plays it through once or ten times. A big issue in my eyes is that the cost of a game has gone or stayed the same, but many FPS's have gone down in quality (except graphics) and in length.

If I could buy a game for $10, play through it once for $10, and go online for 3 months for another $10, I'd get everything I usually get out of an average game, for less. Whereas if the game is exceptional, has a longer/more complex story, multiple paths, multiple ways to do things (All things I/people like), I might spend $20 or $30 replaying the game. I suppose this buying structure is kind of like renting, actually. But not only does this lower the cost of bad games, it raises the cost of good games. If it's a game worth playing a few times, or spending many months online with, the developer makes much more $$ off it, thus increasing the incentive to make longer, better games. I'm sure there are issues with this, and it would take some work to make all the numbers work properly, but it's late. I'll come back tomorrow and look at this idea again.
October 11, 2008 7:26:19 AM

The best way to combat piracy is to have strong online play goverened by a cd key.
Or worthwhile downloadable content to registed users
October 11, 2008 1:19:24 PM

So maybe we should have game "libraries" where people can check out games for a limited time.

It would be wildly successful, and surely put a dent in piracy.

How supportive do you think the industry would be of that?
October 11, 2008 3:47:00 PM

Ananan said:
So maybe we should have game "libraries" where people can check out games for a limited time.

It would be wildly successful, and surely put a dent in piracy.

How supportive do you think the industry would be of that?

Ever hear of Blockbuster, Hollywood video, Game Fly or any of the endless number of small video rental stores? The only difference between what I assume you mean as public libraries and video rental businesses is that public libraries are supported by tax payer dollars and video stores are supported by membership fees. The only issue with renting PC titles is the replication threat. Besides that I'm not sure why the gaming industry would not support it, they certainly seem to be ok with console rentals.
October 11, 2008 3:52:18 PM

theres no way to make a pirate pay for a game, no matter what your not getting a dime out of a pirate

so why spend hundreds of thousands on adding DRM that doesn't effect them

a pirate will pirate the game no matter what you do, don't give your legit customers a reason to become pirates by adding DRM that hinders their ability to play the game they paid for


most legit people will resort to piracy if the legit way causes many problems for them

in early American history when the government banned alcohol. many law abiding citizens went to "speakeasies" even though they were illegal. because they were annoyed at the "DRM" on alcohol


theres no way to stop piracy but you can keep it at a minimum by not giving people a reason to pirate your game

PS you cant rent pc games because of the DRM

on their website gamefly

Video Game Rentals: Rent/Buy Wii,PS3,PS2,Xbox,360,PSP,DS,GC,GBA ...
Rent or buy PlayStation 3,PlayStation 2,DS,Nintendo Wii,Game Boy Advance, GameCube,Xbox 360,Xbox 360,GC,GBA,PS3,PS2 games at GameFly.

they forgot to add PC :) 

well you cant rent content that has DRM used in pc games
October 11, 2008 4:34:27 PM

Haha this is SO funny! When I went down to the "Games General" section and saw that Razor512 was the last one to post, I immediately assumed it would be on yet another thread about piracy...lo and behold, I was right!
October 11, 2008 6:17:19 PM

Quote:
PS you cant rent pc games because of the DRM

Actually Digital Rights Management is the only thing that could make PC game rentals practical. Renting does not work for any product if the customer gets permanent use even after the rental period. DRM could be used to limit game use to a specific time period. For example you could have a Steam like system in which a gamer pays a rental fee and then gets to use a game for a certain period of time. But I'm not a big fan of renting anyways so I really don't care.
October 11, 2008 6:37:16 PM

while drm will be needed, the kind currently used prevents them from working with rentals

a console game has drm that keeps you from copying the game and allows the console to not read games if it detects then on a cd-r this kind of drm is invisible to the user unless that user is actually trying to copy the game

for pc games, it is the other way around, the legit user suffers through the drm while it remains invisible to the pirate
October 11, 2008 8:50:54 PM

You will never stop pirating, PC users are to clever and will always circumvent there way around protection.

If you want to make money selling games on the PC and are worried about Pirates you should develop games that appeal to the older PC gamer and not the teenager who has no money. Make use of download content distribution systems or use your own, don’t waste money paying companies like StarForce and SecuRom for licensing there products useless products to protect the disc because it won’t work, make sure your game is fully supported with patches and responding to user feedback by posting in forums etc. The last thing you can is take a look at EA and note how not to run a games company, unless you aim is wind up the customer.

I believe it's possiable to reduce pirating but if someone isn't a going to pay money for a game then they won't pay for it. The same applies to the consoles as well, 360 games are massed pirated as well and I'm sure the Wii is either cracked or about to be cracked soon.
October 12, 2008 1:16:32 AM

This can go (and has gone) back and forth endlessly, but my original point stands:

They couldn't stop the printing press back then any more than you can stop sharing media on the web nowadays.

Strict sales of individual intellectual property media as a gargantuan business was never something that was going to last forever anyway.

How much money do you think Franz Schubert made off of all of his songs while he was alive? As much as Britney Spears made per hour during the height of her career? Not likely.

This is a desperate attempt to protect a lazy, obese but thankfully dying business model.

I say again, business geniuses - find something new.
October 12, 2008 3:19:21 AM

Quote:
Libraries work, don't they? Thay haven't destroyed the market for books.


Quote:
Strict sales of individual intellectual property media as a gargantuan business was never something that was going to last forever anyway.


You seem to be contradicting yourself. I took your book sales/libraries comment to imply that these types of products could still thrive along side free (or less costly) alternatives. But your last statement seems to indicate that you believe that piracy is killing that sort of business model. So which is it? If you believe the latter then I can only see two alternatives (although there are many variations on each). Either you find another source of revenue such as ads or some sort of subsidies. Or you find a different way to charge consumers, i.e. monthly fees, time based rentals etc.
October 12, 2008 3:50:47 PM

yeah
October 13, 2008 2:29:51 AM

Heya,

Noble but vein effort.

Stop driving a gas burning machine.
Stop using paper all together.
Stop using plastic bags.
Stop using anything that operates on non-rechargeable batteries.
Stop using electricity if it comes from a coal plant.

People do what they do regardless of how it effects everyone. This is how life works because we have short life spans compared to our actual knowledge base. If we lived for hundreds of years, people would have very different approaches to their actions because they would actually feel the effects. You won't, in your meager life time. So, we just take, take, take and don't bother thinking about anyone else other than our selves, present & future combined.

The gaming industry will always be there. Piracy will not stop it. More and more people are getting into that industry, not leaving it. More money is being pumped into anti-piracy measures. It's just fueling a big ball of money. Just because the main profit isn't completely centered on the creator's of the game anymore doesn't mean the industry is in trouble. You'll still get your games, year after year, regardless of how many pirated copies have "damaged sales." If one group falls under, another group will take it's place. It's just how it works and will continue to work.

Is it right to steal games or any software? No. Stealing is stealing. But does that stop you? Nope. As someone else pointed out, it's anonymous and no one can see you do it (at least openly). Even if you know stealing is wrong and you wouldn't steal a book from a store where someone is watching you look at it and pick it up, you'll still go home and download whatever you please.

So go ahead and buy all your want.
People will pirate all they want still.

And nothing will change.

Personally, I don't care much. It's games. There's more important things in life...

Very best,
October 13, 2008 5:02:36 AM

people wouldn't steal from a store because thats "stealing" but you cant really steal software the same way.

stealing means you take something and the original owner looses it

for example. is someone steals your car, then they have a car and you don't, but this doesn't happen with software it is just copied
October 13, 2008 11:10:03 AM

Some people are saying pirating is going to continue. What is their point, that we should accept pirating and pirates? Yes there will be criminals and murderers in the future too, but does that mean we should sit back and allow them to harm our society? No, this type of behavior is unacceptable and needs to be dealt with.

Do you think it's easy to make a game? That these corporations aren't taking risk or providing a good? If you don't think a game is worth it, then fine don't buy it, but that does not give you any justification to steal it. I don't think a Porsche is worth $100000 or whatever they cost, I'd pay $20,000, but guess what, they are free to set their prices and I'm a criminal if I take it. These companies provide jobs and a good living for a lot of programmers, not to mention marketers and all those people needed to set up a good gaming convention. Gamespot, Tom's games, and all those sites wouldn't be in business without games to talk about! People who pirate do a lot of damage and perhaps the only way to reduce pirating is for us to demand harsher penalties including criminal penalties.

DRM sucks, all copy protection is a hassle, but I don't blame EA for wanting to protect what cost them millions to make. I think one thing they should focus more on is suing people. I don't like more government intervention and regulation, but perhaps the only way is to require or allow software companies to track the downloading of their software on PtP networks and on the internet. The software companies would then sue the hell out of the pirates, probably causing them to go into bankruptcy. Once a few people lose their homes, then pirating will be reduced. It's not worth pirating if you're going to put everything you own at risk.

That will be unpopular I'm sure, but it'll upset the pirates the most and who cares if they get their panties bunched up? What are you going to do, stop buying....oh I forgot you pirate, you don't buy anyway. It's too bad that it might have to come down to that, but oh well, pirates screw it up for all of us. Thank you aholes for bring on DRM and ruining the experience. Thank you aholes for all the copy protection and new crap we'll have to endure in the future. You are a scourge to society, don't even pretend that you're not. Don't like DRM? Blame the pirates.
October 13, 2008 2:10:16 PM

azxcvbnm321 said:
Some people are saying pirating is going to continue. What is their point, that we should accept pirating and pirates? Yes there will be criminals and murderers in the future too, but does that mean we should sit back and allow them to harm our society? No, this type of behavior is unacceptable and needs to be dealt with.

Do you think it's easy to make a game? That these corporations aren't taking risk or providing a good? If you don't think a game is worth it, then fine don't buy it, but that does not give you any justification to steal it. I don't think a Porsche is worth $100000 or whatever they cost, I'd pay $20,000, but guess what, they are free to set their prices and I'm a criminal if I take it. These companies provide jobs and a good living for a lot of programmers, not to mention marketers and all those people needed to set up a good gaming convention. Gamespot, Tom's games, and all those sites wouldn't be in business without games to talk about! People who pirate do a lot of damage and perhaps the only way to reduce pirating is for us to demand harsher penalties including criminal penalties.

DRM sucks, all copy protection is a hassle, but I don't blame EA for wanting to protect what cost them millions to make. I think one thing they should focus more on is suing people. I don't like more government intervention and regulation, but perhaps the only way is to require or allow software companies to track the downloading of their software on PtP networks and on the internet. The software companies would then sue the hell out of the pirates, probably causing them to go into bankruptcy. Once a few people lose their homes, then pirating will be reduced. It's not worth pirating if you're going to put everything you own at risk.

That will be unpopular I'm sure, but it'll upset the pirates the most and who cares if they get their panties bunched up? What are you going to do, stop buying....oh I forgot you pirate, you don't buy anyway. It's too bad that it might have to come down to that, but oh well, pirates screw it up for all of us. Thank you aholes for bring on DRM and ruining the experience. Thank you aholes for all the copy protection and new crap we'll have to endure in the future. You are a scourge to society, don't even pretend that you're not. Don't like DRM? Blame the pirates.


no one is against companies protecting their software. we are against DRM that annoys the legit user while having a success rate of 0%

if the police department had a 0% success rate in reducing crime, would you be happy to see the government spending hundreds of billions of dollars in keeping the police departments around the country running

if the company you worked at came up with a new way to keep unauthorized people from entering by asking you "do you work here!" it will ask you that question 50 times and using voice recondition, you will have to answer yes all 50 times before it would let you in

anyone could answer "yes" and they would be able to get in, regardless if they worked there or not.

would you be happy that your boss added that security system into the work place even though it has a 0% success rate?


and drm is not a result of piracy. some of the first games for the pc had DRM before pc game piracy started because the companies assumed that every pc user was a thief and didn't want to risk it, they struck first and the gaming community pushed back. because theres no logic behind the DRM

it is like saying, all humans have the ability to kill so lets put all the humans in jail before they have the chance to kill someone
October 13, 2008 2:24:53 PM

Quote:
What is their point, that we should accept pirating and pirates? Yes there will be criminals and murderers in the future too, but does that mean we should sit back and allow them to harm our society? No, this type of behavior is unacceptable and needs to be dealt with.

Well, since you seem so eager to draw parallels between the situation with piracy and murder (which are not at all similar, but what the hell) lets extend the analogy a bit. DRM seeks to prevent piracy by restricting everyone's use of the product. A good analogy for this is banning the sale of guns to try and prevent murders. Except that doesn't work, criminals will still find ways of getting their hands on guns while law abiding citizens are left gunless.

The situation is the same with DRM. Pirates break the copy protection within days of its release, getting a DRM free game, and the legitimate customers are left with the DRM mess.

I don't think anyone here is saying pirating should be allowed, but DRM is a non-solution that completely misses the point. It's defective by design and doomed to failure. So yes, I blame EA for using overly restrictive DRM. I blame them for it because all it's acheived so far is to piss off a lot of paying customers, without putting a dent in online piracy. I blame them because there are other ways to combat piracy, ways that are actually somewhat effective. I blame them because they don't seem to understand how computers and the internet work, that no matter how difficult you make a DRM scheme it only takes 1 person to crack it and make it available to everyone, and that any DRM can by definition* be cracked. I don't like DRM, and I blame companies like EA for treating it as if it were an effective solution instead of what it really is, a completely ineffective annoyance that targets the wrong people.

*By definition, because in order for your computer to run the game it must be able to work around the DRM, either by passing authentication, decrypting data with a key, verifying a CD-key etc. All of these actions take place in the computer's memory, which makes it available to a cracker wanting to bypass the DRM scheme. The decryption key can be copied out of memory and used to decrypt the game. The game can be disassembled, the authentication function can be found and removed, or altered to automatically authenticate the game without accessing the internet (if 1==1 {authentic=true;}). CD-keys are generated using a mathematical algorithm, that algorithm can be reverese engineered and used to create a key generator. Think of it this way, HD-DVD was cracked inside of a month, despite all the hardware involved being specifically designed from the ground up to make this 'impossible'. Compared to that, a normal PC is an open book.
October 13, 2008 2:31:33 PM

Just thought I would chip in my cents worth on this subject.
I usually torrent movies games and music, sometimes to see if it is much cop before I go out and buy the product and sometimes because I am a selfish Freetard.
I.e: I went to the movies paid for 2 tickets plus food etc and was nearly £19, the movie was $hite, and I wish I had checked it out online beforehand. So now, I generally pirate and if the movie is awesome I go and see it and buy the dvd. Same for games, I generally download a copy and see if I like it then I may buy it, especially as most content is online only and you must have a licenced copy. Example, naughty copy of Frontline Fuels of War, didnt like so erased and saved my cash. Call of Duty 4 again a naughty copy, loved the single player and went out and bought the game to try multiplayer and still loving it. So Piracy is a 2 way street unfortunately I thought "I feel bad about doing this all the time, lets try and go legit", So I beleived the hype and bought Spore. Gutted, I dont like the game, it cost me £40 and its DRM'd to the hilt. Now why didnt I go out and pirate spore like millions of others then I could have seen it was $hite and not bothered wasting my cash.
Game piracy only affects people who have no tech knowledge, most games are cracked etc the day they come out. Developers shouldnt care as most people will buy the game, pirates will always pirate, and even those who pillage from the net go out and buy the game if they want to play online and enjoy it properly.
There is a right in most if not all countries to return a product if you are dissatisifed with it, how many times have any of you got your money back for not liking a film, game, album etc (with the exception of a shop voucher to buy more tat with). Try before you buy is my motto.
October 13, 2008 5:37:30 PM

CaptainHero, I can already tell you Rob Wright is NOT going to like your methodology there. :) 
October 13, 2008 5:52:38 PM

I think the biggest issue in solving the problem of piracy is that we don't have any solid numbers on how much it actually affects things. It doesn't matter so much how many times a game was pirated (how many downloads), it matters how many sales were lost to those downloads. There are some people that aren't going to buy a game regardless, or, maybe, are like me and generally buy games second-hand (which doesn't increase sales). I wish we had some solid numbers on what percent of pirates would have bought the game if it were A. Unable to be pirated. B. Cheaper.

What I do know, is that DRM is not the way to diminish pirating/increase sales. If you stop 1,000 pirates, but lose 5,000 customers because they read about the invasive DRM and didn't buy the game, what good is that to you? Not only did you lose more sales overall, but you spent a million dollars to license that DRM. Pirating is bad, but so far, DRM has affected the legit consumer VASTLY more than the pirate. One pirate cracks it, all pirates become free from it.
October 14, 2008 2:20:37 AM

Pirateing a new word for stealing, which one day will probably completely destroy PC gaming period, when software developers cannot make a profit for their efforts, Game Over!
October 14, 2008 8:33:46 AM

In the dozens and dozens of these threads already here, you'll see piracy has been called the end of computer gaming since 1984 or so. It got pretty bad around 1987 when there were software rental stores everywhere like payday loan stores are now.

This got drug out again because someone got a conscience and bought what he'd been "previewing"? I'd assumed it had to do with the (yet another) IP law Bush just signed or something.

As long as SecureROM is around, I'm not buying PC games. I have my PS3 and 360, so I can certainly keep buying games, but they can keep their trashware protection systems that load with their games. This is from the same company that's still in court over the rootkits they created to protect audio CD's.

I think the last PC game I bought was either Witcher or Sins of a Solar Empire. Every announcement seems to validate my decision even more.

Piracy has always been around and it will remain. Draconian measures and punitive protections to make the games less useful to paying customers won't stop it.

I'm so sick of being lied to by corporations and government. They know all this crap, piracy's just an easy excuse and a straw man they can beat up and get fanbois to bandwagon over.
October 14, 2008 11:59:30 AM

games that have demos often have less piracy than games that get released by greedy developers who feel that we shouldn't be allowed to eve look at the game with out giving them money

people hate it because you cant get refunds for software

which means EA could release their own version of the "I am rich" program and screw people over. especially the people who buy games with out looking at reviews first
October 14, 2008 2:31:51 PM

razor512 said:
no one is against companies protecting their software. we are against DRM that annoys the legit user while having a success rate of 0%

if the police department had a 0% success rate in reducing crime, would you be happy to see the government spending hundreds of billions of dollars in keeping the police departments around the country running


Securom style DRM has nothing to do with stopping piracy. Publishers like EA lose more money from resellers (buy the game, copy it then sell it on Ebay/Amazon etc) then they do pirates. They know if you choose to download the game for free then most likely your not in a position to purchase the game legally, so it's not really a lost sale.
October 14, 2008 4:05:58 PM

No thanks , i only buy games i like on steam and from blizzard. EA can suck a fart out of my ass, i will never buy a game from them RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrr.... pirates live on.
October 14, 2008 7:15:37 PM

You should check out Asian countries like China, they pirate 1000x more then any western nation does, you can find local shops in asian countries that sell bootleg copies of games/movies and even modded console systems.

Every day more gamers are waking up, they will not buy any game that has limited activations or SecuROM, EA developers will blame piracy for bad sales instead of the worthless DRM they keep trying to force on us.






October 15, 2008 2:22:02 AM

This is a funny topic to read. People are so concerned. Really. If PC gaming has been around for 25 years like someone says and the gaming industry hasn't died, then doesn't that mean it's not a big deal? I'm pretty sure that a majority of gamers are legit. Most of the PC gamers I know don't really care about SecuROM. And I already know the solution to piracy. Get them all girlfriends. Isn't it amazing to behold, once people have real lives and real friends, video gaming isn't that important anymore?
October 15, 2008 4:22:32 AM

Some people game with their women.
October 15, 2008 5:29:41 PM

The problem is not the piraters (the ones downloading the game off the internet) they are regular gamers who more than likely dont know squat about programming a video game. What they need to do, is track down these hackers that are reprogramming the games and cracking the games making it possible for people to download the game in the first place. They are the ones ruining the industry. Look at it in real life, if someone robbed a bank and accidentally dropped a 100 dollar bill on the ground, I wouldnt be surprised if who ever picked that up, just pocketed something free someone else stole. You see? so no one can really blame the piraters, they are being human. Even though I didnt buy the first crysis, I had to go out and buy crysis warhead not only because I loved crysis, but because I wanted to help the business of a game I really enjoyed.
October 15, 2008 5:59:55 PM

Thanks str8ballistik,
You've pretty much just proven the point I made in other threads that one of the main reasons why piracy is such a problem is the number of regular people who see absolutely no problem in what they are doing. It's funny how you self dilute, saying things like "They are the ones ruining the industry" inferring that people who upload software share 100% of the blame while those you download have 0 responsibility. Or how you draw an analogy by saying "Look at it in real life...", as if the video game industry is make belief. But maybe that's how you justify doing what you do while at the same time acknowledging that piracy hurts gaming; it's not real so therefore logic must not apply.
October 15, 2008 6:27:57 PM

str8ballistik said:
The problem is not the piraters (the ones downloading the game off the internet) they are regular gamers who more than likely dont know squat about programming a video game. What they need to do, is track down these hackers that are reprogramming the games and cracking the games making it possible for people to download the game in the first place. They are the ones ruining the industry. Look at it in real life, if someone robbed a bank and accidentally dropped a 100 dollar bill on the ground, I wouldnt be surprised if who ever picked that up, just pocketed something free someone else stole. You see? so no one can really blame the piraters, they are being human. Even though I didnt buy the first crysis, I had to go out and buy crysis warhead not only because I loved crysis, but because I wanted to help the business of a game I really enjoyed.


No offense, Str8ballistik, but your bank robbery analogy has to be one of the most inane, bizzare and outlandish comparisons to piracy I've read since a guy tried to convince me (and others on the forum) that hackers who cracked games were doing Jesus' work, i.e. multiplying the bread and fish so that the poor, huddled masses can eat.

October 15, 2008 6:38:08 PM

God dude, why are you purposely trying to be a douchebag, My comment like you said, completely agrees with everything you said, and I cant believe I have to explain that what I meant when I said "Look at it in real life" which was look at it in everyday life for every other person on the planet in a scenario everybody at some point in their lives have seen before. I was sure everyone here would understand that, but someone obviously had to be a freakin douche and try to twist it into something which I think is "Illogical". "Its not real so therefore logic must not apply" See this is what a smart person would do, they would understand what you ware talking about and comment accordingly, Video games are real, they are real product which real developers are creating to make a living, no its not right that someone would see this product and pocket it just because it was sitting on the ground because someone stole it and dropped it there, but thats life, there are people who have no morals to live by and drop it back off at the police station as the cliche goes. What the problem needs is a solution that can work. telling people they are the problem because they download according to you, is not a solution. no matter what people are going to act human. Like others have posted here, they can say what they want that they dont pirate but once they are alone and no one is watching they will pirate again. good job you solved nothing. The problem are the people putting the hackers twisting the programs in order for people to download them. I dont know how this doesnt sound logical to you because it sounds pretty logical to me, cut off the head of the snake. Now I hope that since I had to go out of my way and explain a simple comment you will understand it now.
October 15, 2008 6:41:33 PM

robwright said:
No offense, Str8ballistik, but your bank robbery analogy has to be one of the most inane, bizzare and outlandish comparisons to piracy I've read since a guy tried to convince me (and others on the forum) that hackers who cracked games were doing Jesus' work, i.e. multiplying the bread and fish so that the poor, huddled masses can eat.


Okay, you tell me why those people reprogram it in order for other people to download it. They steal the game and spread it across the internet, I dont understand why you dont have the ability to understand that concept.
October 15, 2008 7:18:40 PM

This is why these analogies are so stupid. First of all how is it part of everyday life that people just stumble upon stolen money or merchandice?This is why these analogies are so stupid. First of all how is it part of everyday life that people just stumble upon stolen money or merchandise? Doesn't happen to me very often. Which leads me to the second part of why your analogy (just like most others to this topic) is stupid. People who pirate games don't just accidentally stumble upon pirated software with no idea that it was pirated. Sure I've found money on the ground with no reasonable idea of where it came from and decided to keep it. But I can't ever recall one single time coming home to find a game on my PC and having no idea how it got there. I have known some rare situations where people do actually end up with pirated software not knowing it's not legit, but I have a hard time believing that such situations make up more than a negligible percentage of game piracy.
If you really want to make an analogy to stolen money, receiving pirated games is more than just innocently finding discarded cash. It's more like watching a theft, knowing full well that the money is stolen and where from and still pocketing the money, if not just flat out taking a payout from the theif to stay quiet. That makes you an accessory after the fact, and most normal people wouldn't do so even if they thought they could get away with it (or at least they would acknowledge they are wrong in doing so).
Going back to the original point I'd made in another thread; making these analogies or trying to use such situations to evaluate piracy is what causes such moral and ethical ambiguity towards the situation. People look at finding a game on a P2P server and try to compare it to finding a twenty on the sidewalk with no one else around, using that moral compass to make their decision as what to do. But it doesn't work because it's not the same. Really there is very little to compare digital piracy to, which is why it takes a little more critical thinking than just trying to compare it to a common situation where we know the correct answer.
October 15, 2008 7:41:54 PM

Quote:
Okay, you tell me why those people reprogram it in order for other people to download it. They steal the game and spread it across the internet, I dont understand why you dont have the ability to understand that concept.

Nobody is arguing that those people are guilt free. But you seem to have this childish response that their guilt should somehow vindicate those who download the games, as if there can only be one guilty party.
October 15, 2008 7:42:50 PM

str8ballistik said:
Okay, you tell me why those people reprogram it in order for other people to download it. They steal the game and spread it across the internet, I dont understand why you dont have the ability to understand that concept.


I never said I didn't understand it -- I just wrote that it was inane and outlandish. You don't think the people downloading cracked games bear any responsibility in the issue of piracy whatsoever because, hey, they're human. And I vehemently disagree. It's bad behavior for responsible adults, whether they have disposable income for games or not.

Piracy wouldn't be a problem if people cracked games but didn't have anybody downloading the ill-gotten gains from their torrents by the thousands. My point is, it takes two to tango. Crackers are supplying the "product," and gamers are supplying the "demand." So what's the answer? Don't download cracked games. And don't use "human nature" (i.e. human weakness) as excuse to do it.
October 15, 2008 8:04:00 PM

You know what, I dont want this thread to become an arguement over a stupid analogy I had no idea an analogy would bring this much confrontation...... if you guys really dont like that analogy, then forget it, you dont have to read it, skip over it. The point of the analogy is what I was going for not the actually story; if there werent people supplying it people wouldnt be downloading it. which brings me to my new conclusion now that I've thought about it some more. I would say that pirating is in some ways just like terrorism, that you cant fight it, no matter what, there is always gonna be someone out there who would step up and start hacking games and dispersing them around the internet. BUUT I'm not going to say another analogy because for some reason its not the point of the story that matters to you guys its the story. so I'm just going to say that you cant fight it. I mean people should have the ability to say no, but the vast majority of people are like I said, giving in to their human weakness, and I know that its wrong and it shouldnt be used as an excuse, but theres no consequence to downloading games so why should they stop.
October 15, 2008 8:13:10 PM

I also gotta say, sorry for adding posts after another, I never once said that people downloading the game were not to blame. I was ONLY trying to offer up an opinion on how the problem could be solved. when I said that the people who are posting the software are destroying the industry I'm sorry I didnt have my words articulated correctly. I didnt mean in any way that they were the ONLY ones.
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