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Ubisoft Confirms SecuROM for Far Cry 2

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October 15, 2008 7:31:14 PM

Article by Rob Wright

In a surprise announcement, Ubisoft has confirmed that the PC version of Far Cry 2 will come with the notorious DRM program SecuROM and limit each user to five activations.

http://www.tomsgames.com/us/2008/10/15/farcry2_securom/

October 15, 2008 7:59:13 PM

There goes that preorder. If people were wondering what was going to kill gaming on the PC... SecurRom is the answer. Just sad... :pfff: 
October 15, 2008 8:09:00 PM

Might be time to expand that class action lawsuit...
Related resources
October 15, 2008 9:26:21 PM

Another reason not to put my system at the mercy of whatever garbage is in the latest securom code. I haven't bought a game with starforce or securom in it yet and do not plan to.
October 15, 2008 9:44:45 PM

Eh, who cares. At least they did it right and have an actual, hassle-free way of getting activations back. That was my biggest complaint with Bioshock and EA games. Hopefully the disc will no longer need to be in the drive to play the game. If the game gets good reviews, I'll definitely get it. I'll play devil's advocate though and say it's still pointless and isn't going to curb piracy, and all it does is give your game bad press. I can understand Ubisoft jumping on the Securom bandwagon though with PC piracy McCarthyism going on lately. I think they deserve credit for having a revoke system ready at launch, unlike EA or 2K Games.

A lot of people will still complain that Securom is a rootkit and it will destroy their computer, but I think that's all overexaggeration.
October 15, 2008 9:54:54 PM

Maxor127 said:
Eh, who cares. At least they did it right and have an actual, hassle-free way of getting activations back. That was my biggest complaint with Bioshock and EA games. Hopefully the disc will no longer need to be in the drive to play the game. If the game gets good reviews, I'll definitely get it. I'll play devil's advocate though and say it's still pointless and isn't going to curb piracy, and all it does is give your game bad press. I can understand Ubisoft jumping on the Securom bandwagon though with PC piracy McCarthyism going on lately. I think they deserve credit for having a revoke system ready at launch, unlike EA or 2K Games.

A lot of people will still complain that Securom is a rootkit and it will destroy their computer, but I think that's all overexaggeration.


Well, I wouldn't say it's a root kit or a PC destroyer, but SecuROM does have similarities to a root kit.

October 15, 2008 10:00:27 PM

you know, if they just made it so that secruom uninstalled WITH THE GAME, all would be fine in my opinion, but to leave something on after i've specifically tried to get rid of it is just a complete no no
October 15, 2008 10:02:46 PM

If i had of known this i woulden't have preorderd it, i am going through the motions to cancel doing so, it is the end of pc gaming as we know if if more developers jump on this bandwagon...
October 15, 2008 10:15:57 PM

I agree with spuddyt. To bad I was looking forward to playing and buying Far Cry 2.
October 15, 2008 10:30:05 PM

So.... what about selling/buying used? I mean, I generally wait a year and pick up a game used for half as much, is this going to stop me now? Might not play FC2 then....
October 15, 2008 10:37:59 PM

I wondered what excuse the pirates would use now that they can install this game legitimately as many times as they need to. I knew there'd be something. I installed Securom with Bioshock before I ever heard of it and it has never given me a single problem. I do agree, however, that anything installed with a game should be removed when the game is uninstalled. I believe the class action suit will resolve this issue. I wonder what the pirates will complain about then. Time will tell. BTW, I saw a method for uninstalling SecuRom on a forum I attend. I haven't tried it but responders on the forum say it does work. Of course the game no longer works.
October 15, 2008 11:27:00 PM

Steam is great, they responded to my request to have my preorder of Farcry 2 refunded in like 5 minutes. I just can't support this crap, too bad I was looking forward to this game.

I had about 12 games on my list I wanted to get this season and cant afford all of them. The publishers are sure making it easy for me to decide what not to get. I don't need excuses to pirate, I need reasons to buy.

I also don't like the way its worded, 5 activations on 3 computers. Is it 5 total or 5 per machine. Also my experience with DRM has shown that every time I format (which is often) it sees my freshly formated computer as an entirely new machine. I also dual boot Vista and XP on my gaming machine and like to have my games available to both. This is a no go for me, I recommend you do the same.

Even if you don't think it will effect you, this should not be supported. Unfortunately most consumers are uninformed sheep. I will be buying the next major release that doesn't use this crap just to show my support.
October 15, 2008 11:36:40 PM

to ram1009,

Your clueless. Pirates do not need excuses and will not be complaining on this forum. The only ones complaining are the ones who bought or wanted to buy this game.

If I was planning on pirating it I would never face this DRM. The cracker would remove it and make it available on BitTorrent shortly after release (and sometimes before). I wouldn't have to deal with SecuROM or limited activation. The only ones who have to deal with it are power users who build their own system, format, upgrade and replace parts often. These are the people complaining online.

If it doesn't bother you great, no need for you to be on here. Your comments will do nothing but cause conflict.
October 16, 2008 1:03:54 AM

Well, that makes my decision between Fallout 3 and Far Cry 2 much easier.

Fallout 3.

Perhaps when I'm ready to buy Far Cry 2, UbiSoft will remove the limit.
October 16, 2008 4:28:09 AM

These game companies aren't helping the economy, my credit cards are paid off and they're still giving me nothing to buy.

I still have faith in Blizzard's coming releases.
If they go rootkit too, I'll finally dump windows entirely and just game on consoles.
October 16, 2008 4:28:38 AM

Interestingly enough, a few sites have been reporting that pirated versions of the 360 version are much more prevalent than usual. Wonder what they'll do to stamp that out.
October 16, 2008 4:34:38 AM

Way to go ubisoft because if there's one thing Spore showed us, it's that there's no way to beat securom and be readily available on torrent sites 1 week before release.

good call!!!
October 16, 2008 5:16:27 AM

squiZZ said:
Way to go ubisoft because if there's one thing Spore showed us, it's that there's no way to beat securom and be readily available on torrent sites 1 week before release.

good call!!!


Well, this is the really chilling thing about all this. Ubisoft probably saw what happened to 2K last summer with BioShock, and they definitely saw the backlash with Spore and Mass Effect. Yet they decided to go with SecuROM anyway and risk pissing off a huge chunk of their customers. Why? You could just cite corporate idiocy here, but I'm not sure that's right, or at least not the whole story. The far more devastating alternative is this: Ubisoft saw the Amazon.com protest, read all of the complaints against EA, punched the numbers for Spore and ultimately decided that they'd lose more money via piracy than ticked off PC gamers (which I don't believe) and figured the potential backlash against Far Cry 2 was an acceptable loss and one they could live with. And remember, with EA and Ubisoft, that's now two of the largest, most powerful game publishers in the industry. If they've come to this conclusion, how many other publishers will follow?
October 16, 2008 5:42:13 AM

robwright said:
Well, this is the really chilling thing about all this. Ubisoft probably saw what happened to 2K last summer with BioShock, and they definitely saw the backlash with Spore and Mass Effect. Yet they decided to go with SecuROM anyway and risk pissing off a huge chunk of their customers. Why? You could just cite corporate idiocy here, but I'm not sure that's right, or at least not the whole story. The far more devastating alternative is this: Ubisoft saw the Amazon.com protest, read all of the complaints against EA, punched the numbers for Spore and ultimately decided that they'd lose more money via piracy than ticked off PC gamers (which I don't believe) and figured the potential backlash against Far Cry 2 was an acceptable loss and one they could live with. And remember, with EA and Ubisoft, that's now two of the largest, most powerful game publishers in the industry. If they've come to this conclusion, how many other publishers will follow?


I really would like to see Tom's getting a first-hand interview with some of the publishers regarding the issue of SecuROM. Bringing up the notion that SecuROM is relatively useless (pirates crack it anyways) and that it annoys the actual buyers of the game. I'd like to see what their official response to sticking with the decision is (the whole story behind their decisions).

I've decided to not buy any games that have SecuROM on it. I'm sad to see Far Cry 2 being on that list. Worse comes to worse, I guess I'll just keep playing COD4 and TF2 for the time being.

It's funny how my ex-roommate uses SecuROM to justify pirating games (he used to buy them, at least good titles like COD4), he does have a valid point because when he bought Bioshock last summer, it just didn't work with his computer (even though he bought the actual copy).

The whole DRM scheme really gets in the way of people who don't mind buying the game but gets fended off because it's just too annoying. I really like to see some stats of how the publishers came to the conclusion that it works (I personally believe it doesn't).
October 16, 2008 8:03:02 AM

I have Mass effect and cyrsis warhead and plan on getting red alert 3 which all have SecuROM And I have not had a problem with any of them. I have even upgraded my GPU from a 3870 to a 4870 And my CPU from a phenom 9600 to a 9950 oc to 2.85ghz and the games still run fine and i have only used 1 act. for each game. Now I dont like the idea that after 3 or 5 act. the game will not work anymore. Because I have old games That I have reinstalled of my PC many times. But I can live with SecuROM. I dont mind the company checking to see if the CD key is valid. Just dont put a limit of the installs please.
One plus for it is that the whole game is put of the hard drive and you dont need the disc to play the game.

I can play mass effect, Cyrsis warhead, UT3, Halo 2 Vista, and Shadowrun all with out the disc. And soon to be dead space and red alert 3. I am thinking about farcry 2 but i really didnt like the 1st farcry.

But yes DRM hurts the people who buy the game more than the pirates.

DRM DOES NOT STOP PIRATES.

Theres my 2 cents
October 16, 2008 8:30:42 AM

robwright said:
Ubisoft probably saw what happened to 2K last summer with BioShock, and they definitely saw the backlash with Spore and Mass Effect. Yet they decided to go with SecuROM anyway and risk pissing off a huge chunk of their customers.


No, no! It's OK, they've seen that only 0.2% of EA's gamers care about DRM...

http://www.custompc.co.uk/news/605037/998-of-gamers-don...
October 16, 2008 11:54:22 AM

I think i'm going to buy all the SecuROM titles, play em once, then burn 'em in a fire! And post it on youtube. Assuming I can legally burn that, with all the environmental pollutants SecuROM hafts to give when burned.

Or I might just get Quantum of Solace (lol).
October 16, 2008 12:57:30 PM

robwright said:
Well, this is the really chilling thing about all this. Ubisoft probably saw what happened to 2K last summer with BioShock, and they definitely saw the backlash with Spore and Mass Effect. Yet they decided to go with SecuROM anyway and risk pissing off a huge chunk of their customers. Why? You could just cite corporate idiocy here, but I'm not sure that's right, or at least not the whole story. The far more devastating alternative is this: Ubisoft saw the Amazon.com protest, read all of the complaints against EA, punched the numbers for Spore and ultimately decided that they'd lose more money via piracy than ticked off PC gamers (which I don't believe) and figured the potential backlash against Far Cry 2 was an acceptable loss and one they could live with. And remember, with EA and Ubisoft, that's now two of the largest, most powerful game publishers in the industry. If they've come to this conclusion, how many other publishers will follow?


It's very interesting. What do you think their ultimate goal is with this plan?

In general, most people agree, it's not to stop hardcore pirates. As expected by most gamers, it simply cannot do that, and it's been proven with past titles using this same form of protection.

Is it to stop loaning/renting/reselling of games? This one seems to make more sense than the previous. However, especially in the Ubi scenario with revokes, it's not really going to prevent that either. In fact, they even mention in their Far Cry 2 Activation Information to make sure activations are revoked before reselling and all should be well and good http://ubisoft.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ubisoft.cfg/php/end... If you were to buy a used game and the activations were not revoked, a call in that case would probably be sufficient to have them revoked/reset.

What about casual game copying for friends? Maybe this one makes the most sense, but it's fairly difficult already right now isn't it? I would consider myself somewhat knowledgeable about PC gaming and I'm not even sure how. I think there's special software (game backup software for example) perhaps that can be used, at least I remember something as such being advertised in the past. Is it's use really that widespread? And, if it's a case of casual copying + including a no-cd crack, what's the difference between that and casual copying and including a "no-server" crack (especially in the case of EA's implementation)?

Is it more along the lines of Sony doing an incredible sales pitch for SecuROM and pulling out some numbers (not to question the legitimacy of the data at this moment) that shows advantages that these publishers simply find irresistible?

Or...we know software as services is somewhat of a "holy grail" and end-goal for many (MS nearly stated as much at one point about Windows). By gaining control over software through DRM such as this, as gamers we are now submissive to any changes in licensing or limitations determined by the publisher through the authorization server. Maybe they aren't reaping tremendous benefits today through this DRM, but by taking control over their software, it's a long-term benefit, and a step in the direction of providing their games as a service.

Looking at it long-term, this goal might be beneficial and attractive enough to continue (perhaps even boosting) funding and investment into PC gaming for the publishers. Regardless of that though, I'm not a big fan of their methods.

It's interesting to ponder...
October 16, 2008 1:58:15 PM

No way on FC2 PC for me.

I'm moving my XBox 360 to my computer room; my PS3 has taken over the living room because of Blueray anyway. So I'll just rent FarCry 2 to check it out.

If it's great I'll keep renting it until I've had enough. If it's merely good I'll wait a year or two until it hits the bargain bin.
October 16, 2008 2:47:18 PM

daveloft said:
I don't need excuses to pirate, I need reasons to buy.


I 100% agree with this statement. I've been buying about 4-5 games a year (I usually look for Value-added features such as good Multiplayer). Last year though, I have reduced my purchases to 2 titles (Crysis and TDU). I spend hours keeping my computer(registry) clean and the last thing I need is an Uninstallable software on my PC just because they can't control their sales. They need a new business model, not a crappy software add-on.

I know FC2 is single player and therefore Ubisoft couldn't rely on server base authentification but this blows. Like Rob was saying earlier, it's idiotic. I think they underestimate their client base for FC2. I can see why they included SecuRom on Spore (because its a game for any type of gamer, even children) so most buyers don't even know they installed a securom software. In fact, I`ll bet most didn't even know they only had 5 activations. However, FC2's client base consists of hardcore gamers mostly. SecruRom is going to hurt their sales a lot more than they anticipate IMO. And that's too bad, because I`d support Ubisoft Montreal any day...
October 16, 2008 2:52:42 PM

XD-1 said:
It's very interesting. What do you think their ultimate goal is with this plan?
...

Looking at it long-term, this goal might be beneficial and attractive enough to continue (perhaps even boosting) funding and investment into PC gaming for the publishers. Regardless of that though, I'm not a big fan of their methods.

It's interesting to ponder...


I am as much in the dark about their reasoning as you. If they want to provide games as a service then they should not bother too much with careful introduction because MMO's use that model and it is widely accepted.

If they want to provide a service instead of a one time sale, there is a snatch though: they will have to do something in return for the recurring fee. If they want to provide the same content but then as a service instead of a one time deal, then they will have to adjust pricing for single player, it will in the longer run enable them to start earning revenues on multiplayer games, something that is already common ground in the console market but not yet accepted in the pc market because initially they have given this away for free. Somehow they will have to improve the multi-player experience so that people are will to pay for it (again MMO's show that it can be done).

October 16, 2008 3:17:58 PM

MMO's are an exception to the rule dont you think?

in an MMO you have to spend hours of your time collecting stuff to be the best therefore your generally only going to be playing that 1 game....so only paying 1 fee a month. However imagine if all games where like this? how many FPS/RTS/Racing games do you dart between in a month? i know this month ive played Oblivion, FEAR, and Command & Conquer generals, if i had to pay a monthly fee for each i would be homeless.
October 16, 2008 3:22:57 PM

robwright said:
Well, this is the really chilling thing about all this. Ubisoft probably saw what happened to 2K last summer with BioShock, and they definitely saw the backlash with Spore and Mass Effect. Yet they decided to go with SecuROM anyway and risk pissing off a huge chunk of their customers. Why? You could just cite corporate idiocy here, but I'm not sure that's right, or at least not the whole story. The far more devastating alternative is this: Ubisoft saw the Amazon.com protest, read all of the complaints against EA, punched the numbers for Spore and ultimately decided that they'd lose more money via piracy than ticked off PC gamers (which I don't believe) and figured the potential backlash against Far Cry 2 was an acceptable loss and one they could live with. And remember, with EA and Ubisoft, that's now two of the largest, most powerful game publishers in the industry. If they've come to this conclusion, how many other publishers will follow?


I gotta chime in with the others. I buy whatever I want and can sometimes buy 2-3 games a month. I was going to buy FarCry 2 for myself and My Sims for my son; not to mention the other big EA games coming out. Now all EA games are banned from my shopping list and apparently all Ubisoft games as well. I really really wanted these games but will not allow this kind of stuff on my computer again (not to mention the limited activations).

I predict that this policy by game companies is actually going to increase piracy because while I won't pirate no matter how bad I want a game; I do predict that many others who want the game but won't allow the DRM (and limited activations) will pirate either just to be able to play the game or as a form of angry protest.

On the bright side companies that do not do this will see an increased income (at least from me) because I'm going to bored and desperate for decent games to play.


October 16, 2008 3:40:28 PM

Thank God someone in the industry hasn't lost their mind. Check this out:

http://pc.ign.com/articles/920/920382p1.html

Quote:

Quote:
October 15, 2008 - Stardock CEO and President Brad Wardell has released a 2008 company customer report. In it, he addresses the controversial issue of data rights management (DRM). While DRM has caused a lot of community outrage of late, Wardell believes that it isn't necessarily a bad thing. "Stardock's position isn't anti-DRM or anti-copy protection but rather anti-stupid-DRM and anti-stupid-copy protection," Wardell writes.

While he states that "companies/individuals have every right to protect their intellectual property any way they want," he believes Stardock, the publisher of the Sins of a Solar Empire and Galactic Civilization , is doing it "in a way that doesn't seem to punish legitimate customers."

He asserts that most anti-piracy systems hurt the legitimate customer. "Stardock's software and games don't require users to keep their CDs in the drive for instance. That only punishes legitimate customers. It's annoying to keep track of a CD and a pirate certainly doesn't have to worry about that since they're running a cracked version.


:bounce:  Wow Someone actually gets what we are trying to say!
October 16, 2008 4:02:47 PM

daveloft said:
to ram1009,

Your clueless. Pirates do not need excuses and will not be complaining on this forum. The only ones complaining are the ones who bought or wanted to buy this game.

If I was planning on pirating it I would never face this DRM. The cracker would remove it and make it available on BitTorrent shortly after release (and sometimes before). I wouldn't have to deal with SecuROM or limited activation. The only ones who have to deal with it are power users who build their own system, format, upgrade and replace parts often. These are the people complaining online.

If it doesn't bother you great, no need for you to be on here. Your comments will do nothing but cause conflict.


Well, one of us is certainly clueless. I will readily admit that I'm ignorant of just how easy/difficult it is to pirate because I don't do it. If bitTorrents are involved it definitely doesn't interest me on several levels. The people complaining here about SecuROM are either pirates or sympathisers. They're both the same to me. They are both advocating "killing the goose that laid the golden egg". As I said, I think the class action suit will resolve the "root kit" issue permanently and as long as you can reinstall your game indefinitely just by uninstalling it I no longer see a viable issue with this form of DRM...unless you're a pirate of course. BTW, Dave, it's not a very compelling arguement to simply tell people you don't agree with to keep quiet.
October 16, 2008 4:07:52 PM

BigMac said:
I am as much in the dark about their reasoning as you. If they want to provide games as a service then they should not bother too much with careful introduction because MMO's use that model and it is widely accepted.

If they want to provide a service instead of a one time sale, there is a snatch though: they will have to do something in return for the recurring fee. If they want to provide the same content but then as a service instead of a one time deal, then they will have to adjust pricing for single player, it will in the longer run enable them to start earning revenues on multiplayer games, something that is already common ground in the console market but not yet accepted in the pc market because initially they have given this away for free. Somehow they will have to improve the multi-player experience so that people are will to pay for it (again MMO's show that it can be done).


Yeah I agree, changes are going to need to be made to make their "end-goal" -- if it truly is their goal -- successful.

Although the MMO model is perhaps ideal, who knows where the pricing strategy will, or could, end up though. To me, Steam is an example of a service as well, although it's not based on an MMO payment type of structure at this point.

When you buy a game from Steam, you are really giving up some rights and signing up to be governed by the rules (and future rules) determined by their service. To enjoy your games is dependent on the service.

Thinking more along the lines of SP games where a server isn't essential, it's not like in the past and buying a "stand-alone" game on disc that is not tied to a server via the DRM, where what you see is what you get --- forever and always. As long as you can get it to run, there's no additional enforcement, limitations, or changes (or absolutely worst case, and unlikely, turning the switch off on a game) that can be placed.

Not bashing Steam at all though and only using it as an example, because the good news about Steam (for games without an add'l DRM layer anyway, SecuROM for example), and at least for a large number of gamers, is that it's perhaps one of the best examples of balancing any "privileges" sacrificed by being governed by service with providing a number of benefits and features to gamers for using the service.
October 16, 2008 8:53:07 PM

ram1009 said:
Well, one of us is certainly clueless. I will readily admit that I'm ignorant of just how easy/difficult it is to pirate because I don't do it. If bitTorrents are involved it definitely doesn't interest me on several levels. The people complaining here about SecuROM are either pirates or sympathisers. They're both the same to me. They are both advocating "killing the goose that laid the golden egg". As I said, I think the class action suit will resolve the "root kit" issue permanently and as long as you can reinstall your game indefinitely just by uninstalling it I no longer see a viable issue with this form of DRM...unless you're a pirate of course. BTW, Dave, it's not a very compelling arguement to simply tell people you don't agree with to keep quiet.


My that's a huge brush you paint with, and even less effective at getting people to STFU, it's actually more like trolling. As you've seen repeated ad nauseum, pirates aren't affected by this anyway.

It's people who followed the rules that have to reformat after losing access to all optical media because of this software that's left behind even if the program's removed.

Personally, I also seem to burn activations due to hardware failures, and I absolutely resist the idea that I should have to telephone every software maker of every program on my system if I have to start from scratch and beg for permission to reinstall it. That's where all this is headed if customers are happy with it and people such as yourself seem to be advocates for it.

Do you own Sony stock or something? I understand this is just a method to recover losses from the XCP debacle.
October 16, 2008 9:08:45 PM

Personally, I will not purchase anything with Securom 7 on it. I do not agree that it is any protection from pirating and think it is only a way to avoid the sale of used games. I purchase many games used which is and should always be legal.

far cry I enjoyed..FC 2 I will not give them my money. Let it rot and I have not purchased Spore either nor will I purchase any EA game as long as they go this route.
October 16, 2008 9:20:35 PM

Ive had it on preorder for a few weeks now and the only reason im not cancelling that order is because ive been waiting for FC2 (amd indeed a game just like it) for ages now! Ive wanted a big open ended, realistic and immersive game for absolutely ages now, the closest ive found is Stalker, but im not big on the mutants in that, and Oblivion, which whilst being amazing doesnt have guns or realism!

As long as its a good game im happy with coping with Securom...if its a bad game though ill be majorly pissed!
October 17, 2008 3:12:54 AM

jalek said:
My that's a huge brush you paint with, and even less effective at getting people to STFU, it's actually more like trolling. As you've seen repeated ad nauseum, pirates aren't affected by this anyway.

It's people who followed the rules that have to reformat after losing access to all optical media because of this software that's left behind even if the program's removed.

Personally, I also seem to burn activations due to hardware failures, and I absolutely resist the idea that I should have to telephone every software maker of every program on my system if I have to start from scratch and beg for permission to reinstall it. That's where all this is headed if customers are happy with it and people such as yourself seem to be advocates for it.

Do you own Sony stock or something? I understand this is just a method to recover losses from the XCP debacle.


Please show me where I advocate/condone this. I've said more than once that the class action suit will eliminate software remnants after uninstalls.
October 17, 2008 5:59:02 AM

ram1009 said:
Well, one of us is certainly clueless. I will readily admit that I'm ignorant of just how easy/difficult it is to pirate because I don't do it. If bitTorrents are involved it definitely doesn't interest me on several levels. The people complaining here about SecuROM are either pirates or sympathisers. They're both the same to me. They are both advocating "killing the goose that laid the golden egg". As I said, I think the class action suit will resolve the "root kit" issue permanently and as long as you can reinstall your game indefinitely just by uninstalling it I no longer see a viable issue with this form of DRM...unless you're a pirate of course. BTW, Dave, it's not a very compelling arguement to simply tell people you don't agree with to keep quiet.


The only time I reinstall a game is after formating my computer. Unfortunately SecuROM will see my freshly formated computer as an entirely new system and require me to waste another activation. I had this issue with my copy of Bioshock and I ran out of activations quite quickly. I will not go through this again and I will not be buying any game that employees this form of copy protection.

If you can't see that pirates are not affected by this form of copy protection you truly are the most clueless person on this forum. You should apply at EA.

Also your welcome to make whatever arguement you want. I just can't see any compelling reason for you to be posting on this forum besides trolling, its just kinda sad.
October 17, 2008 8:38:54 AM

Guess which game just leaked early on the Xbox 360? I'll give you a hint, it consists of two three letter words and one number. I think the pirates are really ramping up their efforts big time for console games.
October 17, 2008 12:12:00 PM

daveloft said:
The only time I reinstall a game is after formating my computer. Unfortunately SecuROM will see my freshly formated computer as an entirely new system and require me to waste another activation. I had this issue with my copy of Bioshock and I ran out of activations quite quickly. I will not go through this again and I will not be buying any game that employees this form of copy protection.

If you can't see that pirates are not affected by this form of copy protection you truly are the most clueless person on this forum. You should apply at EA.

Also your welcome to make whatever arguement you want. I just can't see any compelling reason for you to be posting on this forum besides trolling, its just kinda sad.


I think you've missed something here, Dave. The story says that you will be refunded an install if you uninstall the game from your computer before reformatting. This "refund" would be credited on the EA validation server so that the next time you install it won't matter if it's a new computer. Also, using cracked software isn't the only form of piracy. Copying game disks and passing them out to all your friends is what SecuROM will combat effectively. I'm guessing that publishers feel that cracked software is uncontrollable with today's technology and so they will have to live with it. They are simply controlling what they can control with SecuROM. No, I don't want to work for EA, but I do sympathise with their, and others' plight. I think you, and others need to take a look at this situation through their eyes.
October 17, 2008 2:34:07 PM

ram1009, the publisher for Far Cry 2 is Ubisoft not EA.

Robwright raises the concern that with other publishers taking the securerom route, despite some fierce localised consumer lashback (e.g. Amazon), will all future games come with securerom DRM.

I think big publishers like Ubisoft and EA have the power to do whatever they want in order to abolish piracy and consumers will have to deal with it.

Far Cry 2 DRM does not sound as bad because you have unlimited installs limited to 5 installs at any one time rather than having 5 installs only. Furthermore you can play it with no-CD.
October 17, 2008 2:39:42 PM

Looks like EA and Ubi and probably etc. want to make an RIAA/MPAA for gaming (if there isn't one).. hell Activision is already suing people.
October 17, 2008 2:57:06 PM

609059,39,346935 said:
ram1009, the publisher for Far Cry 2 is Ubisoft not EA. quotemsg]


I was accused of working for EA. Doesn't matter. They're all in the same boat, as are we.
October 17, 2008 4:20:19 PM

Personally, i will still buy the game. I have Bioshock and Warhead and I haven't had any problems yet. The biggest issue I have is the need to uninstall the game to get the activation back. I reformat my computer at least once a year (or untill the first BSOD). If all games start to go this way, I will spend more time uninstalling the games then I will reformating my computer. I don't want to have to uninstall 10 games before I can format my computer only to reinstall them hours later. Very DUMB and time consuming.
October 17, 2008 5:11:23 PM

ram1009 said:
I think you've missed something here, Dave. The story says that you will be refunded an install if you uninstall the game from your computer before reformatting. This "refund" would be credited on the EA validation server so that the next time you install it won't matter if it's a new computer. Also, using cracked software isn't the only form of piracy. Copying game disks and passing them out to all your friends is what SecuROM will combat effectively. I'm guessing that publishers feel that cracked software is uncontrollable with today's technology and so they will have to live with it. They are simply controlling what they can control with SecuROM. No, I don't want to work for EA, but I do sympathise with their, and others' plight. I think you, and others need to take a look at this situation through their eyes.


I didin't miss anything read more into it. They specifically said 5 activations on 3 machines. A freshly formated computer is seen as a new machine. Lets not forget about the possibility of a hard drive crash or computer theft.

I'm happy with CD in drive for copy protection of a single player game and Cd Key for a multiplayer game. It provides them with enough protection without interfering with their customers personal use of a product they purchased. I'm even willing to live with SecuROM like activation, just don't limit how many times I can activate. I format every 3 months, I dual boot and I build new computers often. This method of protection simple will not work for my needs.

I do see their perspective, they want to protect what they worked on. But it DOESN'T work, Spore was the most widely pirated game ever in spite of this over reaching copy protection. Yet it still sold well.

They need to stop crying about piracy, it has always existed and always will. Find new business models like Battlefield Heroes. Focus on online gaming, provide a good product, support that product with patches and updates. Valve and Blizzard don't cry about piracy they have Steam and Battle.net and it works very well for them.

Gabe has said everytime they release an update to TF2 their sales of the game jump. They use TF2 players to help promote the game. It appears that supporting a game with additional content and keeping their customers happy gets them to talk positively about the game and get their friends into it. Wow what a novel concept.

Most games have copy protection so they do require being cracked. The majority of piracy is not done by sharing a game with friends. Its far to easy to acquire the game from Bittorrent. It only takes 1 person to crack the game and remove SecuROM and then thousands can easily download and never have to deal with SecuROM.

SecuROM just like any other form of copy protection does limit casual piracy among friends. But rootkit like software and limited activations is not necessary to do this.

Its hard for an intelligent person like myself to see from the eyes of a clueless publisher.
October 17, 2008 5:45:05 PM

As I have said earlier, I don't like the way it is worded, 5 activations on 3 machines.

I truly hope it means 3 machines at one time and 5 activations total and uninstalling actual credits back another activation. I will have to wait and see, but my previous experience with DRM from Bioshock as well as Yahoo Music and Napster music subsciptions has shown me that it never works as easily as it should.

I'm worried it means 3 machines not at one time but in total. With formating 4 times a year installing the game in both OS's I run thats 8 activations on what the system will see as 8 different machines.

Its the lack of clarity in what that wording means and unfortunately the fact that most people don't understand that a freshly formated machine is seen as new computer that causes concern for me.

I just can't support this, and the for the record not supporting copy protection does not mean I support piracy. The world is seriously not that black and white, welcome to grey.
October 17, 2008 6:15:37 PM

daveloft said:
I didin't miss anything read more into it. They specifically said 5 activations on 3 machines. A freshly formated computer is seen as a new machine. Lets not forget about the possibility of a hard drive crash or computer theft.

I'm happy with CD in drive for copy protection of a single player game and Cd Key for a multiplayer game. It provides them with enough protection without interfering with their customers personal use of a product they purchased. I'm even willing to live with SecuROM like activation, just don't limit how many times I can activate. I format every 3 months, I dual boot and I build new computers often. This method of protection simple will not work for my needs.

I do see their perspective, they want to protect what they worked on. But it DOESN'T work, Spore was the most widely pirated game ever in spite of this over reaching copy protection. Yet it still sold well.

They need to stop crying about piracy, it has always existed and always will. Find new business models like Battlefield Heroes. Focus on online gaming, provide a good product, support that product with patches and updates. Valve and Blizzard don't cry about piracy they have Steam and Battle.net and it works very well for them.

Gabe has said everytime they release an update to TF2 their sales of the game jump. They use TF2 players to help promote the game. It appears that supporting a game with additional content and keeping their customers happy gets them to talk positively about the game and get their friends into it. Wow what a novel concept.

Most games have copy protection so they do require being cracked. The majority of piracy is not done by sharing a game with friends. Its far to easy to acquire the game from Bittorrent. It only takes 1 person to crack the game and remove SecuROM and then thousands can easily download and never have to deal with SecuROM.

SecuROM just like any other form of copy protection does limit casual piracy among friends. But rootkit like software and limited activations is not necessary to do this.

Its hard for an intelligent person like myself to see from the eyes of a clueless publisher.


Well, you're certainly enamored with the word clueless. I think the fact that you consider yourself more intelligent on this subject that all the publishers is megalomaniacal at least. I don't think any individual gamer (including myself) is in a position to fully inderstand the business realities of publishing PC games like a publisher is. You cite things like HDD crashes and reformatting every 3 months like they were the rule rather than the exception. I've been heaviny into computers for over 15 years and have never had a HDD failure which lost data and my HDDs rub 24/7. Reformatting every 3 months is certainly your prerogative, however I would gamble that very few find any reason to do so. Even so, if the publishers refund the install, it won't matter how often you reformat. Just uninstall first. Also, keeping a copied disk in your drive isn't copy protestion. My suggestion is to find a way to cope because DRM is here to stay, that is assuming anybody even bothers to publish PC games in the future.
October 17, 2008 7:59:13 PM

ram1009, that's nothing more than a well worded troll.

Quote:
I think the fact that you consider yourself more intelligent on this subject that all the publishers is megalomaniacal at least.


daveloft pointed out Gabe Newell of Valve, as far as explaining what the method that works is. Considering this, he's obviously not stating that all publishers are clueless. While Valve still publishes over a physical medium using EA's label, their real star is the steam platform, which is a complete success. Valve has built up a full system based on simply registering cd keys once and then keeping them in an account. If you buy the games over paypal, they're already added to the account. As Valve adds new features, and to spice up their schedule every now and then, they have free weekends to sample the games over the system, like free TF2 weekends and the like.

It allows you unlimited downloads when you're logged in. Responsibility is left to the user to keep control of their account, and if the account is hijacked, proof is asked of ownership of the account. The fact is, THIS SYSTEM WORKS. In fact, for the first time in the 3 (almost 4) years I've owned it, my account was somehow hijacked a few weeks ago. I contacted valve, provided them with the paypal numbers of the most recent transactions I had and other details, and they restored it without much fuss.

THAT is how this should all work. There is absolutely nothing here punishing the legit user. The ONLY thing that has some kinks is the offline mode, which I personally wish worked better considering I'm a college gamer in a dorm that's firewall happy.

Note that while piracy continues of Valve's titles, AND EA's titles, only EA decides to talk about piracy and only EA titles are breaking records in piracy. It's nothing to do with the size of the publisher. Look at the number of sales of the Orange Box since it's release and you'll see proof of concept in the numbers.

In addition, EA takes it to a level past Valve as far as online access goes, having to contact the server every time a game loads. As I've already explained, I play my games in a dorm where every port, process, and server IP has to be formally submitted to request access. I have to use a tunneling application to log into steam as is, but going this far for EA is unacceptable.

Quote:
I've been heaviny into computers for over 15 years and have never had a HDD failure which lost data and my HDDs rub 24/7.


No, see, that's the exception. Most people actually run into problems with computers, within 3 to 4 years of buying them, ESPECIALLY this casual consumer which EA seems intent on pushing this DRM to, the ones they state don't even notice it.

There's also the fact that EA could simply shut off the activation servers at some point. I realize that while this may sound a little bit contradictory to my above point, as I've been touting valve as having the right idea. However, you need to look at EA's track record. If you do your research, they've unhooked servers for gameplay on sports games that are two years old, as well as almost any other game from back then. Kotaku has done posts on the lists of servers being shut down that year, even.
October 17, 2008 8:02:51 PM

jedi940 said:
Personally, i will still buy the game. I have Bioshock and Warhead and I haven't had any problems yet. The biggest issue I have is the need to uninstall the game to get the activation back. I reformat my computer at least once a year (or untill the first BSOD). If all games start to go this way, I will spend more time uninstalling the games then I will reformating my computer. I don't want to have to uninstall 10 games before I can format my computer only to reinstall them hours later. Very DUMB and time consuming.


Yes I agree, you should be able to just log in from any computer to access your account and remove any of the computers associated with your account. This would save time, it would help if you forgot to uninstall a game and would also help in the case of hard drive crash or other bad case scenario.
October 17, 2008 10:20:31 PM

I agree that STEAM seems to be agreeable to most users. Personally, I prefer to have a physical disk but I could live with a STEAM-like system if that's what evolved. I have only one STEAM game and had some trouble running it and tech support was not very efficient in solving my problem. I also agree with what Dave said about being able to control which computers you want to be authorized on the host server. There's no doubt the system can be improved. I just don't see how getting upset with the publishers can be constructive. Something agreeable to all will evolve OR there won't be any PC gaming in the near future.
October 17, 2008 10:56:21 PM

Greetings!

Cancelled my pre-order when found out the DRM was coming in Farcry2.

October 18, 2008 1:03:37 AM

daveloft said:
Yes I agree, you should be able to just log in from any computer to access your account and remove any of the computers associated with your account. This would save time, it would help if you forgot to uninstall a game and would also help in the case of hard drive crash or other bad case scenario.


Isn't that what Sims2 used? I didn't play it so I only dealt with it occasionally when someone called, but I seem to recall something like that.
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