Xbox 360 Piracy Continues with Fable 2, Gears 2

3Ball

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A sudden boom in leaked console titles has put a new spin on the issue of game piracy.

^^lol^^ @ the "sudden boom" part.

On a serious note: I hope that someone speaks to Cliffy B. and he has some sort of statement for us. I am curious to hear what he has to say since this affects his company on the console side as well now with GoW 2. Could make for a good laugh imo. All of this is really starting to get out of hand tbh.

Best,

3Ball
 

Heyyou27

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I'd be lying if I wasn't sort of happy to see that the PC isn't the only platform suffering from piracy. At this point the PS3 is the only system currently piracy proof, although who knows how long that will last. You can already find disc images for a few multi-platform PS3 titles, but there is still no way to play them.
 

jalek

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If the PS3 had enough games in demand, it'd be done. With the "refocusing" on consoles due to piracy, it'll probably happen sooner than it would have.

It's not like Sony's DRM systems have proven unbeatable...

I can't say I'm particularly glad to see it happen, but it was predictable to anyone who's spent more than a couple of years in the industry. These CEO's sound more like RIAA lawyers than game company executives.
 

dagger

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Yep, there is no such thing as unbeatable DRM. It's simply lacking demand until now.

Remember how EA's much-hated drm for Spore was cracked in one day? A few hours, actually, retail games hit the shelves in the morning, the internet in the evening. If the demand is there, it will be done. Pirates are college kids and teenagers, they have brainpower, and more importantly, creativity on their side. The industry don't stand a chance, they never have, and never will. :p
 

Heyyou27

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When the 360 was cracked it's install base was considerably smaller than the PS3's is now, but no doubt more attention is given to the most popular consoles. The PS3's firmware will be cracked eventually, but to this point it has proven more secure than Microsoft's.
 

Dekasav

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That is true, Dagger. I'm a college student, and I've been around in the tech circles (Comp Sci major). Us kids, have things going for us that the industry can't match:
1. Way too much time.
2. New ways of thinking of things (more than once I've had software more efficient than an instructor's).
3. A need to rebel against the man!!!

I think that spending millions is the wrong way to go, and that new pricing strategies are the best way to go about things. Use things like Steam, subscription based pricing, even for FPS (though not $15 a month, probably). I always enjoyed the Korean systems of free/cheap games, but special/unique/more powerful weapons and other useless things (Clan symbols, name changes, Kill/Death ratio resets, etc.) are bought with "real" money. Sell a game for $10, collect $10 a month from every third buyer, and keep supplying new items/maps etc., like MMOs have to to maintain interest/subscriptions.

Either way, DRM is NOT the answer.
 

emp

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Don't forget MotoGP 08, Saints Row 2, Golden Axe, Fracture, and Guitar Hero World Tour all leaked days/weeks before their release date. Just like 3Ball said, a response from Epic would make a fine piece of comedy if you ask me :p

EDIT: Now that I think about it, this has been orchestrated all too well, maybe the cracking groups might be holding out on releasing Far Cry 2 PC version until the official release date at least, while at the same time pumping out fully functional pirated versions of X360 games weeks before the official release. After all, the Far Cry 2 image has been available on certain trackers since sunday, but it's worthless since there is no crack (making it unplayable).

Pirating groups taking a stance against PC piracy... It might be interesting to see where this'll end up. Certainly better than being shafted all the time by console versions and ports.
 

dagger

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Are they really that well coordinated? :sweat:
 

emp

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Maybe not, but that's just the conclusion I'm reaching. Far Cry 2 image has been widely available for more than two days and as far as I know it isn't equipped with more than your average securom used these days, so I don't think these guys should've had that much of a problem considering that Crysis Warhead and Spore were cracked within hours at most.

I just don't see why they'd take so long on october PC releases with the game images so easy to find, while at the same time console piracy pre-release leaks skyrocketed to unforeseen levels.
 

cielmerlion

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Im glad the pirating is taking off on the 360. Maybe theyll lighten up on the PC now. The should all act like bethesda who doesnt put any security at all, even keys.
 

jomicbro

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Here's what really bothers me about this whole argument - I gladly bought my copy of GOW for the PC after playing a pirated version on my friend's 360 and I would just have gladly paid for GOW2 on the PC. Now, my friend who has never paid for a 360 game, just has to download any game he wants, burn it and play it in his 3rd party modified 360, while I will have to resort to using cracked .exe's to play my copies of FC2 and Dead Space (already pre-ordered and paid for) which both employ securom (which I really hate). Seems a bit wonky and it's hard to not take it personally when studios are making statements like Epic's about the PC game industry (I'll never buy another game from then again whether they repent or not) despite the hard evidence that pirating is just as prevalent on consoles as it is on the PC.
 

Hellboy

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I would say that most pcs are online right..

So why dont they ad extra content for valid online games - lisense it from Microsoft with the Games for Windows moniker
 

Thurin

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[mode=rant]

1+1=2

Where there are good games for a whole bunch of money, people will pirate them. Why? Well isn't it obvious? Let's say you have a console or a PC and you want this new game.... it will cost you anywhere from $50-$100 for a new game (pricing is even worse on console games than it is on PC games)

Not many people have that much money to spend on games all the time and with the lack of trying before buying, a great many people resort to piracy and will usually only buy the licensed legal copy of a product if it is "worth it".

I have to say that I am honestly glad and maybe even relieved that this piece on piracy hit the news. Piracy will and can be found everywhere where there are products that interest the greater public... the platform doesn't matter at all.

Where there is something to be had/gained, there will be people to claim it.

PC and console cracking/hacking/pirating is just as bad all around the board... move from one market to another and you'll find that your games will still be pirated just as quickly and widely.

However, the companies behind the gaming industry still make plenty of money, don't go around believing that these people eat one less cracker with caviar or drink one less bottle of champagne over the piracy that we have seen in the gaming world since the dawn of computer gaming....

It's always been there and always will be there and I do not believe that the honest consumer needs to be punished by means of DRM or somesuch just because there is this thing called piracy.

It's simple really... single player games will always be massively pirated, as they are offline and thus if you crack them you will be able to play them infinitely without ever even contacting a server or standing out.

Multi player games however can be protected through a user account system, a key authentication system etc... look at Steam, Blizzard or Warhammer Online for instance.... you create a user account, and add all your products and keys etc to it.

Of course there are source and version leaks that result in private servers etc, but these will never and can never yield the same experience as the licensed and official product... this will either cause people to experiment and lose interest, or actually motivate people to buy the real product and enjoy the game as it was meant to be played.

Message to all game designers/producers and those who are in charge of releases and copy protection...: Spend more time in the shoes of a gamer, lower the prices on your merchandise and do not punish gamers who buy your software for the deeds of those who pirate it.
(first and foremost; because those who pirate the software will remove the protections added to the game anyway and play without any hindrance while us honest paying gamers get stuck with the restrictions)

Think about it:
Lower game prices because:
1: Less people who would take the effort of cracking the game simply because just buying it takes less time/money and resources than cracking it.
2: Way more people would buy legal software because it is simply within their price range.
3: Even if your company would produce a "crap game" and people buy it, they won't mind as much because it didn't cost them a small fortune to buy the game in the first place.

Get rid of restrictive copy protection and the likes because:
1: Crackers will remove it from the software anyway.
2: You will restrict the people who actually do buy your software legally.
3: Way less people will actually buy the software if they know it's restrictive.
4: A less restrictive approach is favorable to both the company and the customer.

Make demos and trials available for all games again like in the old days because:
1: If people can try your game for some time before having to actually purchase the full software they can make up their minds on whether they deem the game interesting enough.
2: More demos will mean less people have to resort to piracy for try outs.
3: A demo release before your full release will heighten the awareness for your product and gain you respect and fans in the process.


This concludes my rant for now, but suffice it to say: "Put the focus more on the customer and less on defending and/or protecting your product and you will see Piracy drop and Customer contentedness rise..."
[/rant]

======
Thurin
 

JeanLuc

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Rob I hope you realise Ryan Lord’s article contradicts a lot of what you’ve been hawking about piracy over the last year, specifically about that piracy on PC compared to the consoles.
 

P30

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This Article is ridiculous... Console piracy is nothing new it was always possible since the inclusion of optical drives in consoles.
But you ask why publishers still prefer to release their games on Consoles?

There are at least about 50 million + Gaming PC's out there VS. 20M Xbox 360.
Now! Can you name a game on both systems which sold better on PC? i bet you cant

Gears of war sold 5 million on Xbox 360 vs. 300k on PC ... :lol:

Crysis sold how many? about 1.5 million on PC ( including bundles with VGA's) , it could have sold easily twice that on Xbox 360 ... i mean a average shooter like Army Of Two sold 2 million on Xbox 360.

AND Microsoft already countered the piracy on Xbox 360 , Newer Xbox 360's Produced after July 2008 ( with Lite-on Drives) Can't be hacked. :hello:

Now! do i need to say this Article Fails?
 

Hellboy

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Gears of war sold 5 million on Xbox 360 vs. 300k on PC ...


Thats because everyone bought an Xbox and GOW because hardly anyone would wait for the pc version

If they were bought out at the same time... I bet pc version would of sold more... Also piracy on pc is easier...
 

gwellin

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If these publishers would just get there act together and force some DRM software on the consels we wouldn't have this problem. Although it would only work if it was something like embeding unremovable key registrey files, forceing online activation, and limit the use of the game on only 3 consoles. Maybe then we can prevent piracey. Because EA already proved that they can prevent piracey with DRM. Just look at Spore. Oh wait... We'll at least they proved they are the true owners of the games and not you. You just rent from them. This problem will NEVER go away. Instead of conscentrating on the piracy problem, maybe conscentrate on just making a good game. A massive majority of people will always buy good games.
 

tomasf

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if you have a much bigger number of consoles out there than pc´s, just make the math and you will find which platform suffers most from piracy. son dont blame just pc gamers for that
 

jeverson

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This is really getting out of hand. The music industry did it first. Then the movie industry. Now the game industry. What did they do you ask? They treat their consumers like criminals while charging them exorbitant prices for crappy product. Piracy is nothing new and will probably never go away. However you will notice that the music industry is starting to catch on. They are finally releasing DRM free product at reasonable prices for products that the consumer gets to pick instead of being forced to buy a bunch of crap to get the one track they want. Because of this music piracy is on the decline. I guess we just have to see who will catch on next. The movie or game industry.

For those that keep going on about STEAM being the "holy grail" of gaming and anti-DRM, there is something you should know. Even games distributed through STEAM can and do still come with DRM like SecurRom. I think this is the dumbest thing to effectively double the anti-piracy protection. It is more likely that the developer is too lazy to repackage their installer to remove the SecurRom. If they are too lazy to do that then imagine how lazy they are about the content of their games.

STEAM could be the best thing for PC gaming if developers used it the way it was intended. Unfortunately all of us that purchase our games are villains and our loyalty is worth nothing to them. I used to get really excited about new up coming games and would even plan my next PC upgrade around them. Now I just find myself looking to build the most reliable system I can for as little as I can since I am no longer enthused by Game industry. Have I ever played a cracked or pirated game?.. sure.. but not because I had some malicious evil plan to rob the industry of profits. It was usually just a bunch of guys doing a small LAN party and the games where usually several years old when we played them and we didn't already own it and couldn't find it in stores anymore.

Well... I've ranted on enough about this and frankly I am getting fed up with the whole thing. I have canceled all my pre-orders that have SecurRom and only plan to buy a few titles for my 360 in the near future and most of them are on my birthday wish list. Do I think developers and distributors should do away with DRM?.. most certainly. At the same time I think the "pirates" need to back off as well. Turn those skills of yours into something more productive so you can afford to buy the games. Although I think the Game industry needs to be the first one to back down.
 

ryanlord

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P30, I never implied that console piracy is a new problem. I know it's been around for ages, even in the NES days with those bootleg mega carts. I do believe however that console piracy is on the rise beyond the tech geek community. Modified consoles are now beginning to make their way into the homes of general consumers much more than what we've seen with previous generations of consoles.

Modding shops and services are popping up all across the US (and more-so overseas). Pre-modified consoles and pre-made burned games are making their way to even places like Ebay, Craigslist, etc. There are even instructional videos on Youtube that take people through step by step mods of all the consoles. There has definitely been an increase in public awareness, accessibility, and popularity of modded consoles.

Regarding your stats of pcs and consoles, you're not factoring in how many of those pcs are dedicated to pc gaming. If there were 50 million gaming pcs, then wouldn't World of Warcraft have at least 30-40 million of those? Last I checked, they broke 10 million subscribers with what is the most popular game the PC has ever seen, and that's worldwide.

Gears of War did not launch on the same day, but many months later. The PC port was littered with hard protection, Live for Windows, bad controls, and a recycled campaign.

Crysis had system demands way ahead of the curve of mainstream, and shut itself off from a large chunk of the gaming community because of that. It also went head to head with Call of Duty 4.

I understand that Lite-on drives cannot be flashed (yet perhaps), but there are plenty of refurbished, used, and old stock out there waiting for a flash. I also understand that there are people selling old drives out there for people who get stuck with a lite-on, or have theirs replaced during refurb. MS has not globally fixed the problem.
 

robwright

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I believe my stance on the issue has been that piracy is more damaging for the PC platform than the consoles, at least here in the states, because 1) there are more consoles games being sold and thefore they can better withstand to lose a percentage of sales whereas PC games suffer more, and 2) pretty much every PC gamer can download a cracked game, but the console crowd isn't as technically savvy and may not know how to pirate console titles, even though flashing a 360 or whatever is exceedingly easy. So it's not so much the hardware/software, but the audience. So when i say that PC gaming piracy is worse, let me clarify -- it may not be the number or torrents/downloads is worse for the PC, but the cummulative effects for the platform are more damaging.

As for the rest of the article, we're not contending that console piracy is new. It obviously isn't. But having several high profile 360 titles leak weeks in advanced of their release and well BEFORE the PC versions of the titles leak is an interesting trend, and one that suggests, as Ryan wrote in the article, that torrent groups are trying to make a statement regarding console piracy.
 

Trialsking

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I think Jalek just solved the piracy problem.

If game makes simply make games that no one lwants, then there will be no one to pirate the games! I cant believe no one thought of that before. To think Sony had the answers all along. No Demand = No Piracy

This would end the DRM debate, and think of the money every gamer would save!
 

dagger

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Gears of War, like Halo and basically all games available on Consoles, was released first on console, and only later, when interest weaned, on PC. It's a means to boost console usage.

There are rare examples of games available first on PC then moved to console, such as Starcraft. Sales figures are the exact reversal of Gears of War.

As for Crysis on console, it's not going to happen. Xbox 360 use ATI Xeno (R520) running on dx9, which is adaptation of x1900. Crysis is too stressful.