So, my "friend" is a pirate, some interesting insights.

[Annisman]

Well, I have a "friend" named Dave. Dave pirates games often. I for one hate PC pirates, they hurt the industry that we love, and jepordize it's future. This fact cannot be denied, developers are shying away from the PC because of pirates, they have said it themselves. PC gaming is not 'dying' it will never die, but it has begun to lose its exsclusiveness.

Why does Dave pirate his games?

Me and my friends have recently purchased a few excellent titles (Far Cry 2 and Fallout 3) Far Cry 2 has some intense DRM that comes along with it, including Internet activation, limited installs, cd-check and all that hoo-ha. Fallout 3 on the other hand comes with a cd key, but doesn't even ask for it when installing. It DOES have a form of DRM, but it is very slight and quite user friendly imo.

Dave has pirated both of these games. SO DRM CAN'T be the reason for his pirating.

It boils my blood to pay 100$+ for these two excellent games, and then associate with someone who I know has gotten these titles for free, has hurt the gaming industy, and acts so coy about the whole thing.

Not to mention, I built his entire computer from scratch over the summer, which was a 1200$+ build. I did it for free, welcoming another PC gamer to our great ranks.

What have I created? Another pirate? I am ashamed of his actions. He has also recently pirated Dead Space, and some other big titles.

The most prevalent thing he says to me is that " I don't have the money to buy these epic games, but how can I let other people enjoy this experience, and not me?"

He admits they are great games, knows it is an epic experience, and praises the developer. Yet he pirates their game without a second thought.

Dave is 23 years old, he lives at home in his basement, he does not attend school. IMO opinion Dave should man-up and work a day (or less) and come up with the 50$ to plop down for a game that will give him many hours of enjoyment.

Dave may not be the model of every pirate out there, but if he is, then I have concluded that most pirates are 20-30 year old kids living at their parents house, in their basements, not working, and sulking in their own laziness.

Dave is not my friend.

 

[pr2thej]

Its hard to educate people if they do not care.

Dave needs to start understanding and caring about the industry before he realises he needs to grow some balls and work for what he wants, as an honest Man would.

Unfortunately in today's society it is so easy to get what you want for free (as a generalisation) with very little deterrance.

 

[Heyyou27]

Dave sounds like a real prick.

 

[dagger]

ROFL, good for Dave. Only happen in rich countries. He'd have starved to death in most parts of the world.

There's a term describing this social phenomenon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

As for piracy, people do it because they can, of course. DRMs certainly don't help, but they're obviously not the main reason. Yeah, what a shock.

More people do it then you think, they just don't admit it. Personally, I pirate every new game as they come out, without exception. Only around 1/3 of them, or roughly $150-200 per month variable, gets brought later (for multiplayer, or just adding to collection). Piracy is simply so convenient those days. It takes less time to download a game than running to the store, and you don't have to pay for it!

 

[emp]

I'll be honest with you, I was wary of Far Cry 2 (simply because it's an ubisoft title developed by ubisoft), so even though logic told me I was in for disappointment, I thought that maybe they couldn't screw such a great game as Far Cry, being cautious as I am I proceeded to get a taste of the game and downloaded it.

THANK GOD I DID. Far Cry 2 is the worst POS of 2008, and I've played some really crappy games this year, this is the first game this year that not only I had to stop playing, but completely delete any trace of it from my HDD, just so I'd feel safe enough that it won't crawl back from the depths of the recycle bin. I am happy to say that I had no hesitation to get Fallout 3 at all though, so the above wasn't necessary. And any doubts I had of Dead Space were also dispelled by playing it an hour or so.

Just like dagger said, even though Fallout 3 was a sure buy with guaranteed quality, Far Cry 2 and Dead Space weren't. If I hadn't downloaded Far Cry 2 I would be out of $50 and with no way to return such a horrible, ill conceived piece of junk.

 

[jaguarskx]

I can't really condemn your ex-friend since I used to pirate games myself. But if I liked it, I would actually buy the game; for example Morrowind. Now I simply buy my games 'cause I grew out of that phase and I can afford to do so (or at least budget for it).

It suppose if I were still 23 years old, I would be pirating more than I would be buying. The temptation to pirate will always be there for most people because it is easy enough, avoids DRM and it's free. I learned to simply do without certain games if it had DRM that I didn't like.

For example, I didn't buy X3 - Reunion until the publisher officially removed StarForce from the game, the catch was the patch had to be applied before X3 was launched for the first time because that is when StarForce gets installed.

Games I would have liked to buy this year, but didn't due to DRM are as follows:

Spore
Crysis Warhead
Far Cry 2

I won't pirate them, but I will also not buy them unless the DRM is eventually removed for those game (like the case for X3 or the more well known BioShock)

I chose to buy Fallout 3 over Far Cry 2 because:
1. Less invasive DRM
2. It's a RPG game

 

[emp]

Well Spore isn't really that engaging unless you really enjoy that type of game, you can play a few times if you want, but I grew bored of it.

Warhead was excellent, the alien part was better implemented than that of Crysis and I actually enjoyed it A LOT. (Played the SP twice)

Far Cry 2, please spare yourself the pain and misery of playing this game, you would only end up disgracing not only yourself, but your HDD and every part of your computer that will inevitably end up being infected by this dreaded piece of 'software'. I'm serious, anyone that gives that game an 8 or a 9 out of 10 was on crack when they were reviewing, those who gave it 6 or 7 out of 10 were just being EXTREMELY generous (God will repay your charity some day...).

 

[robwright]

Well, I have a "friend" named Dave. Dave pirates games often. I for one hate PC pirates, they hurt the industry that we love, and jepordize it's future. This fact cannot be denied, developers are shying away from the PC because of pirates, they have said it themselves. PC gaming is not 'dying' it will never die, but it has begun to lose its exsclusiveness.

Why does Dave pirate his games?

Me and my friends have recently purchased a few excellent titles (Far Cry 2 and Fallout 3) Far Cry 2 has some intense DRM that comes along with it, including Internet activation, limited installs, cd-check and all that hoo-ha. Fallout 3 on the other hand comes with a cd key, but doesn't even ask for it when installing. It DOES have a form of DRM, but it is very slight and quite user friendly imo.

Dave has pirated both of these games. SO DRM CAN'T be the reason for his pirating.

It boils my blood to pay 100$+ for these two excellent games, and then associate with someone who I know has gotten these titles for free, has hurt the gaming industy, and acts so coy about the whole thing.

Not to mention, I built his entire computer from scratch over the summer, which was a 1200$+ build. I did it for free, welcoming another PC gamer to our great ranks.

What have I created? Another pirate? I am ashamed of his actions. He has also recently pirated Dead Space, and some other big titles.

The most prevalent thing he says to me is that " I don't have the money to buy these epic games, but how can I let other people enjoy this experience, and not me?"

He admits they are great games, knows it is an epic experience, and praises the developer. Yet he pirates their game without a second thought.

Dave is 23 years old, he lives at home in his basement, he does not attend school. IMO opinion Dave should man-up and work a day (or less) and come up with the 50$ to plop down for a game that will give him many hours of enjoyment.

Dave may not be the model of every pirate out there, but if he is, then I have concluded that most pirates are 20-30 year old kids living at their parents house, in their basements, not working, and sulking in their own laziness.

Dave is not my friend.

Piracy is nothing more than digital looting in this case. Dave can't afford to pay for the stuff, so he loots it and ays everyone else is playing these games/downloading them illegally, so why can't I?

Dave needs to get a f---ing job or find a less expensive hobby.

 

[pr2thej]

To the people using the excuse that they cannot return a bad game if they do not enjoy it - an entire industry based around playing and reviewing games exists to inform you on new releases.

 

[spuddyt]

Humans are, by their nature, greedy. If you aren't forced to think about the consequences, you won't suffer from a negative emotional reaction. If you don't think about it, you will be quite happy .

 

[emp]

To the people using the excuse that they cannot return a bad game if they do not enjoy it - an entire industry based around playing and reviewing games exists to inform you on new releases.

What good is this so called industry when they are all having orgasmic reactions to the worst piece of junk of 2008? If I were to go by them I would have probably ended up regretting it because I was screwed out of $50, I know this because it happened to me before. The most down-to-earth review I've read so far is Tom's Games review, and the reviewer was EXTREMELY generous with the 7 out of 10 score.

If these reviews were actually accurate and reflected the game, then maybe just maybe I'd consider them. But when a magazine scores 60ish out of 100 to Crysis Warhead (which was an excellent game by the way), while giving a 94 out of 100 to Far Cry 2, I'd be wary not only of Ubisoft's junk but also professional reviews in general.

I buy games that I know will be good, in fact I pre-purchased Left 4 Dead as soon as it was available on Steam (and by this I mean 10 minutes after the pre-purchase option became available), this kind of trust in a company and their product is what Ubisoft simply doesn't have with me. When Valve advertises that they are selling diamonds they really are selling you perfectly-cut diamonds, but when Ubisoft advertises diamonds, they are actually selling the cheapest of zircons more often than not.

 

[dagger]

Humans are, by their nature, greedy. If you aren't forced to think about the consequences, you won't suffer from a negative emotional reaction. If you don't think about it, you will be quite happy .

Exactly! +1.

And it's been getting harder to sympathize with the industry lately.

 

[purplerat]

What good is this so called industry when they are all having orgasmic reactions to the worst piece of junk of 2008? If I were to go by them I would have probably ended up regretting it because I was screwed out of $50, I know this because it happened to me before. The most down-to-earth review I've read so far is Tom's Games review, and the reviewer was EXTREMELY generous with the 7 out of 10 score.

If you're really concerned about whether a game like Far Cry 2 is worth the price, just wait six months. Any body with half a brain about video games should be able to tell 6 months after a game has been released whether or not they will enjoy it. So why not wait? Well as spuddyt said it's all about greed. Just like game companies are greedy and over hype bad games to increase sales, greedy gamers can't wait to get their hands on the newest titles. I'll admit that I'm guilty of this too as I rushed out to buy FC2 last week and was a little disappointed.
Pirates just want to be greedy without risking the consequences, which in this case would be paying for a game that wasn't really worth it. So in the end it's no different than if you just pirated a game simply because you didn't want to pay for it. You got what you wanted, to be able to play the game on the day of release, without having to pay for it. So what's the difference between you and the guy who just flat says they pirated the game because they didn't feel like paying?

 

[emp]

That my intent was to get the game if it was good enough (especially since the SecuROM wasn't as horrible as EA), but I was extremely disappointed by it. I didn't finish the game, in fact I didn't put more than what I could bear in playtime.

If you're making a game and you are famous worldwide for making complete and utter crap, then the least you can do is put a decent demo. There'd be no difference if I played it now or in 6 months, because the reviews would be the same and the game would still be the same (sadly...). The only good thing that came out of it is that I crossed it off my Must-Buy game list, which is getting pretty crowded as it is.

 

[Annisman]

That my intent was to get the game if it was good enough (especially since the SecuROM wasn't as horrible as EA), but I was extremely disappointed by it. I didn't finish the game, in fact I didn't put more than what I could bear in playtime.

If you're making a game and you are famous worldwide for making complete and utter crap, then the least you can do is put a decent demo. There'd be no difference if I played it now or in 6 months, because the reviews would be the same and the game would still be the same (sadly...). The only good thing that came out of it is that I crossed it off my Must-Buy game list, which is getting pretty crowded as it is.

No matter how you sugar coat it, YOU USED THEIR PROPERTY. They made it, and you 'stole' it, if even for a brief amount of time. Without paying a single dime. YOU OWE THEM SOMETHING FOR USING THEIR PRODUCT. MAN UP

 

[emp]

I am all for anti-piracy, but if companies keep releasing crap with no demos, then I have to be smart about my money, because I don't even have a job right now (full time student).

For this holiday season alone I already bought Left 4 Dead and will be buying COD:WaW (Despite it being from treyarch, I'm taking up on everyone's word that it is basically COD4 on WW2).

If you want to take the high moral stance while you bank account is being pilfered by companies like Ubisoft releasing this kind of crap (EA is not on this list this time around, they actually released a GOOD game), then be my guest. If you want to label me as a pirate, then call me how you please, because game shopping shouldn't be a russian roulette where you have to "guess" what game you want.

If you want an example, last year I wasn't really considering on buying UT3, but they released a demo that I had so much fun with that I decided to pay for the entire game, even though I have only played it twice since then.

My point being is, if you have a reputation for making junk (like Ubisoft does) and you want budget-conscious customers to pay for your games , PROVE TO THEM that you're not selling junk. Companies like Blizzard (Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3) and Valve (HL2 episodes, L4D, whatever future releases) are exempt from this kind of behavior because they have proven themselves with spotless track records, and even then they STILL release demos.

EDIT: As far as I know EA didn't release a demo for Dead Space, so I went and downloaded it, played through the first chapter and loved it, afterwards I went to get the game despite it having such intrusive copy protection.

 

[Annisman]

I am all for anti-piracy, but if companies keep releasing crap with no demos, then I have to be smart about my money, because I don't even have a job right now (full time student).

For this holiday season alone I already bought Left 4 Dead and will be buying COD:WaW (Despite it being from treyarch, I'm taking up on everyone's word that it is basically COD4 on WW2).

If you want to take the high moral stance while you bank account is being pilfered by companies like Ubisoft releasing this kind of crap (EA is not on this list this time around, they actually released a GOOD game), then be my guest. If you want to label me as a pirate, then call me how you please, because game shopping shouldn't be a russian roulette where you have to "guess" what game you want.

If you want an example, last year I wasn't really considering on buying UT3, but they released a demo that I had so much fun with that I decided to pay for the entire game, even though I have only played it twice since then.

My point being is, if you have a reputation for making junk (like Ubisoft does) and you want budget-conscious customers to pay for your games , PROVE TO THEM that you're not selling junk. Companies like Blizzard (Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3) and Valve (HL2 episodes, L4D, whatever future releases) are exempt from this kind of behavior because they have proven themselves with spotless track records, and even then they STILL release demos.

EDIT: As far as I know EA didn't release a demo for Dead Space, so I went and downloaded it, played through the first chapter and loved it, afterwards I went to get the game despite it having such intrusive copy protection.

You really think you're a Saint because you actually forked up some cash for a game? Get over yourself. Exercise some self-control and patience, if you REALLY can't afford new games, then buy them used or when they are 20$ And/Or get a job during the summer and set some cash aside for games when they come out. I for one am a full time student, AND work 25-35 hours a week. I am starting to see that the REAL bonafide root cause of piracy is sheer laziness and ease of access.

 

[purplerat]

Reviews are hardly the only way to determine whether a game is worth buying or not. Maybe pre-release there is much less to go on, but if after 6 months on the market (in reality much less time is need) you can not determine whether or not a game is worth buying then that is solely due to your own incompetence.
The whole demo thing is just another straw man to use as an excuse to not have to pay for games. There are tons of examples of good demos for games that game up way short. A lot of people would argue that the Crysis demo oversold that game because of the short and weak ending. And plenty of people pirated that game to because they said the demo wasn't truly representative of the game.
The list of excuses just seems to go on and on. I just wish more people would be honest and say "Ya, piracy is easy and with no real consequences so I do it to avoid paying for something I otherwise should." Period, end of justification.

 

[purplerat]

I am all for anti-piracy, but if companies keep releasing crap with no demos, then I have to be smart about my money, because I don't even have a job right now (full time student).

Hey I'm anti-domestic violence but sometimes my wife gets on my nerves so I have to smack her around.

 

[speedbird]

The first day I installed Far Cry 2, there was a problem with their UK activation servers, so I couldn't activate for most of the day. It annoyed me that a game company can introduce these anti piracy methods, which punish the wrong people and that being the legitimate buyer. I also dislike the fact that more games are being limited to a certain amount of Installs until the legitimate buyer has to call a help line for re-activation. This happened to me with FSX and I had to call Microsoft. Legitimate buyers are being abused, while the pirates cracked these games long ago and then playing these games for nothing easily Also add to the fact that these security features may cause compatibility problems further down the line when new operating systems are released. I've have a few older security protected games that wont install in Vista because of this

I don't have the answers to game piracy, but surely there's gotta be a better way to tackle this?

 

[spuddyt]

I believe that it is generally attested that DRM is utterly pointless for stopping piracy - even those die hard against can search thepiratebay and find a cracked version of any game with DRM on day 1 of release. All DRM achieves in terms of piracy, is giving people an excuse, so when they are "called out" they can just say "well I wouldn't have done it if they hadn't put securom on it" - whether that is true or not is neither here nor there, they can justify it to themselves in those terms quite easily.

 

[dagger]

Why do people pirate? Because they can!

Why is the sky blue? Why do you need to eat and take a crap?

There is no justification for it, and none are necessary. No amount of ranting or drms can stop it. It's a fact of life in the information age. Accept it as such.

 

[jalek]

Dave will download everything as long as it doesn't take much effort and he has more time than money, which seems to be the case for many 20-somethings.

Maybe your "friend" will get kicked out of his parents' house eventually and ask to stay on your couch. You'll never get him out if you do, my parents have a brother of my sister's ex boyfriend living in their living room. He seems to always be just on the verge of getting a job and getting out, but it never happens.

Do try to limit the number of leeches you take on as friends. They can get expensive quickly.

As for DRM, I despise it and know I could get the games without it, but really prefer not to at all. I know that no matter how much I like the game, I'll be unwilling to buy it, so I'm just blissfully ignorant and assume all titles with SecureROM suck, regardless of reviews and people's talk.

 

[SnareSpectre]

Dave needs to get a f---ing job or find a less expensive hobby.

What's ironic to me is that PC gaming really isn't all that expensive in the grand scheme of things, if you think about it. Here's how I look at it: the parts to a top-of-the-line PC at any given moment in time cost what, $1,200? Then say you buy one PC game per month at full price, which amounts to $600. So in this case if you were to buy a new awesome computer EVERY year, as well as buy a new game EVERY month (which I think is a lot more than most people buy), you're still spending less than $2,000/year. Now, even if you only make $30,000/year, if PC gaming is your #1 hobby, isn't $2,000 a pretty small price tag?

PC games to me are expensive up front...heck, $50 for just a CD/DVD...but if you buy the right games and continue to play them, the cost is well worth it. Look at Oblivion and Fallout 3 - I think both of these games have probably $150 worth of content in them, so the value is well worth it. Countless hours could be spent on either game, and for such a small price.

I bought the parts for my PC 1 1/2 yrs. ago, and probably won't upgrade it again for another year or so. It was $1,300 including the monitor and everything. I know I've mentioned on here before that I pirate games on occasion, but the games I spend the most time playing are the ones I have the hard copies of, like Starcraft, Titan Quest, Oblivion, and recently Fallout 3. To play those 4 games to their fullest extent definitely takes AT LEAST a year, if not several years, and the combined amount of money spent on those was a whopping...wait for it...$101. A hundred bucks for several hundred hours' worth of gameplay? That sure is a heck of a lot cheaper than going to movies, or fine dining, or playing in a band, or whatever else.

I think we PC gamers have it lucky where price is concerned...the only work we have to do is figure out which games to buy, to make sure we do get the value that makes this hobby relatively cheap!

 

[purplerat]

Classic argument.

However, this is another thread going down the same endless path, let's not forget. There are no physical objects involved and you can't steal data because it doesn't exist

??? I don't think you fully read the one sentance I wrote. I'm not sure what endless path you are talking about when I simply point out the hypocrasy of someone saying they are against something but still do it when it suits their needs. I'm not here to give anybody moral instructions, but it drives me nuts when people try to play both sides of the fence that way. I'd rather somebody just come out and say that they pirate games because it's what benifits them most and they really don't care if it hurts the gaming industry. I can at least respect somebody taking an honest position like that.